London pollution monitoring
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:02:50 on Sun, 30 Jun 2019,
tim... remarked:

Even when I do select neutral I rarely put the hand brake on if the road
is flat. what's the point?

So you don't get pushed into whatever's in front, when someone rear-ends

and how often does that happen

once in a million

tim

London pollution monitoring
 

tim... wrote:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:02:50 on Sun, 30 Jun 2019,
tim... remarked:

Even when I do select neutral I rarely put the hand brake on if the road
is flat. what's the point?

So you don't get pushed into whatever's in front, when someone rear-ends

and how often does that happen

once in a million

It's still good practice. I put my car in Park at traffic lights. No need
to use either foot or hand brake.

London pollution monitoring
 

On 30/06/2019 17:02, tim... wrote:

So just because of one idiot, we all have to dawdle down the road
waiting behind the bus at every stop, just because you don't want us to
overtake?

I don't mind people overtaking, as long as they don't execute dangerous
manoevres as they're doing so. I prefer not to have passengers injured
on my bus (or rather I did, I'm now retired so have oodles of time to
spend on Usenet..!)


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

London pollution monitoring
 

In message , at 19:29:18 on Sun, 30 Jun
2019, tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:02:50 on Sun, 30 Jun
2019, tim... remarked:

Even when I do select neutral I rarely put the hand brake on if the
road is flat. what's the point?

So you don't get pushed into whatever's in front, when someone rear-ends

and how often does that happen

once in a million

Just like every other traffic accident. But that's still a few thousand
people a year needlessly put into danger (out of 500+ billion road/km a
year in the UK).
--
Roland Perry

London pollution monitoring
 

In message , at 19:00:48 on Sun, 30 Jun
2019, D A Stocks remarked:
Most modern cars will shut off the engine if sitting at lights, etc.
Although this does rely on the driver selecting neutral and putting
the handbrake on, and how many people do that..? No, they just sit
there in front of you with their foot on the brake giving you full
brake light intensity, lovely at night, I don't think grrrr...

Strangely, with the only start-stop implementation I've driven (Alfa
Romeo) the engine cut when the car was stopped with the footbrake. If
you then selected neutral and applied the handbrake the engine
restarted when you took your foot off the footbrake.

I decided to bypass start-stop altogether on my latest car by buying a
full hybrid, where the engine has stopped long before the car comes to
a rest, and the car can be moved for short distances in heavy traffic
without starting the engine at all. However, the parking brake on this
car is electric and is quite hard to apply manually - it is applied
automatically when you shift the transmission to Park. The car has a
brake hold feature which leaves the footbrake applied after coming to a
stop. The brake releases when you press the accelerator to move off.
This works fairly well, but it doeas keep the brake lights on while
you're stopped.

I find all this gadgetry is fine on a reasonably level road. But trying
to do a hill-start in heavy traffic in an unfamiliar car with quite so
many individual quirks is a nightmare.
--
Roland Perry

London pollution monitoring
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:00:48 on Sun, 30 Jun
2019, D A Stocks remarked:
Most modern cars will shut off the engine if sitting at lights, etc.
Although this does rely on the driver selecting neutral and putting
the handbrake on, and how many people do that..? No, they just sit
there in front of you with their foot on the brake giving you full
brake light intensity, lovely at night, I don't think grrrr...

Strangely, with the only start-stop implementation I've driven (Alfa
Romeo) the engine cut when the car was stopped with the footbrake. If
you then selected neutral and applied the handbrake the engine
restarted when you took your foot off the footbrake.

I decided to bypass start-stop altogether on my latest car by buying a
full hybrid, where the engine has stopped long before the car comes to
a rest, and the car can be moved for short distances in heavy traffic
without starting the engine at all. However, the parking brake on this
car is electric and is quite hard to apply manually - it is applied
automatically when you shift the transmission to Park. The car has a
brake hold feature which leaves the footbrake applied after coming to a
stop. The brake releases when you press the accelerator to move off.
This works fairly well, but it doeas keep the brake lights on while
you're stopped.

I find all this gadgetry is fine on a reasonably level road. But trying
to do a hill-start in heavy traffic in an unfamiliar car with quite so
many individual quirks is a nightmare.

As with any automatic, hill starts should surely be easy?

In my car, the parking brake is also automatic. It's applied whenever you
stop, and released automatically when you're out of P mode. The doors lock
as soon as you start moving.

London pollution monitoring
 

In message , at 07:40:46 on Mon, 1 Jul 2019,
Recliner remarked:

I decided to bypass start-stop altogether on my latest car by buying a
full hybrid, where the engine has stopped long before the car comes to
a rest, and the car can be moved for short distances in heavy traffic
without starting the engine at all. However, the parking brake on this
car is electric and is quite hard to apply manually - it is applied
automatically when you shift the transmission to Park. The car has a
brake hold feature which leaves the footbrake applied after coming to a
stop. The brake releases when you press the accelerator to move off.
This works fairly well, but it doeas keep the brake lights on while
you're stopped.

I find all this gadgetry is fine on a reasonably level road. But trying
to do a hill-start in heavy traffic in an unfamiliar car with quite so
many individual quirks is a nightmare.

As with any automatic, hill starts should surely be easy?

I had an Audi inflicted on me as a hire car (I had ordered a Passat),
and over the week I had it couldn't work out how to do a hill start
using the gadgetry rather than the old-fashioned way. Part of the
problem being that nevertheless it would keep stalling [more than half
the time] as soon as it got under way (irrespective of the amount of
throttle).

Reported this as a fault to the hire car people, but they said in effect
"it's supposed to work like that". But they could have been just
covering up.

One of the reasons I bought a rather more simple-minded vehicle
recently, which works fine.
--
Roland Perry

London pollution monitoring
 

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:02:50 on Sun, 30 Jun
2019,
tim... remarked:

Even when I do select neutral I rarely put the hand brake on if the
road
is flat. what's the point?

So you don't get pushed into whatever's in front, when someone rear-ends

and how often does that happen

once in a million

It's still good practice. I put my car in Park at traffic lights.

An automatic?

Aren't there different considerations there?

No need
to use either foot or hand brake.

as I said, on level ground, Neutral works just as well

London pollution monitoring
 

tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:02:50 on Sun, 30 Jun
2019,
tim... remarked:

Even when I do select neutral I rarely put the hand brake on if the
road
is flat. what's the point?

So you don't get pushed into whatever's in front, when someone rear-ends

and how often does that happen

once in a million

It's still good practice. I put my car in Park at traffic lights.

An automatic?

Aren't there different considerations there?

Why? It effectively puts the car in neutral and applies the brake, just
what I want.


No need
to use either foot or hand brake.

as I said, on level ground, Neutral works just as well

And as Roland correctly said, it's less safe. You should always have a
brake on when stationary.

London pollution monitoring
 

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:02:50 on Sun, 30 Jun
2019,
tim... remarked:

Even when I do select neutral I rarely put the hand brake on if the
road
is flat. what's the point?

So you don't get pushed into whatever's in front, when someone
rear-ends

and how often does that happen

once in a million

It's still good practice. I put my car in Park at traffic lights.

An automatic?

Aren't there different considerations there?

Why? It effectively puts the car in neutral and applies the brake, just
what I want.

there you go then

it applies the brake

the same thing doesn't happen in a manual, so any discussions about whether
it is actually *necessary* to apply the brake with a manual can't be
compared with what an auto does

No need
to use either foot or hand brake.

as I said, on level ground, Neutral works just as well

And as Roland correctly said, it's less safe.

for a tiny possibility

You should always have a
brake on when stationary.

so you say

tim

London pollution monitoring
 

In message , at 13:21:13 on Mon, 1 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:

as I said, on level ground, Neutral works just as well

And as Roland correctly said, it's less safe.

for a tiny possibility

You should always have a
brake on when stationary.

so you say

I hope it would be a driving test failure not to have any brake on.
--
Roland Perry

London pollution monitoring
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 13:21:13 on Mon, 1 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:

as I said, on level ground, Neutral works just as well

And as Roland correctly said, it's less safe.

for a tiny possibility

You should always have a
brake on when stationary.

so you say

I hope it would be a driving test failure not to have any brake on.

and who drives as per the test 40 years later?

tim

London pollution monitoring
 

In message , at 15:06:20 on Mon, 1 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:

as I said, on level ground, Neutral works just as well

And as Roland correctly said, it's less safe.

for a tiny possibility

You should always have a
brake on when stationary.

so you say

I hope it would be a driving test failure not to have any brake on.

and who drives as per the test 40 years later?

In an important safety matter such as this?
--
Roland Perry

London pollution monitoring
 

On 01/07/2019 13:21, tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:02:50 on Sun, 30 Jun
2019,
tim... remarked:

Even when I do select neutral I rarely put the hand brake on if the
road
is flat.Â* what's the point?

So you don't get pushed into whatever's in front, when someone
rear-ends

and how often does that happen

once in a million

It's still good practice. I put my car in Park at traffic lights.

An automatic?

Aren't there different considerations there?

Why?Â* It effectively puts the car in neutral and applies the brake, just
what I want.

there you go then

it applies the brake

the same thing doesn't happen in a manual, so any discussions about
whether it is actually *necessary* to apply the brake with a manual
can't be compared with what an auto does

No need
to use either foot or hand brake.

as I said, on level ground, Neutral works just as well

And as Roland correctly said, it's less safe.

for a tiny possibility

You should always have a
brake on when stationary.

so you say


So does every driving instructor. Easy test fail.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

London pollution monitoring
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 15:06:20 on Mon, 1 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:

as I said, on level ground, Neutral works just as well

And as Roland correctly said, it's less safe.

for a tiny possibility

You should always have a
brake on when stationary.

so you say

I hope it would be a driving test failure not to have any brake on.

and who drives as per the test 40 years later?

In an important safety matter such as this?

on the one in a million chance I'm going to be rear ended

get real

It's trivial compared to the number of times a week I might slip one or two
miles over the speed limit in a built up area

Or the number of times a week I see people jump the lights as they are
turning red. - I try not to do that, but now that I have moved much of my
travel to being a bus passenger I am amazed at the number of times the [1]
bus driver does this

tim

[1] that's not the same bus driver every time I use the bus, feel free to
correct my grammar here.

London pollution monitoring
 

In message , at 15:47:20 on Mon, 1 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:

I hope it would be a driving test failure not to have any brake on.

and who drives as per the test 40 years later?

In an important safety matter such as this?

on the one in a million chance I'm going to be rear ended

get real

Presumably you dislike seatbelts and air bags, because they are for
one-in-a-million trips as well?
--
Roland Perry

London pollution monitoring
 

On 01/07/2019 15:47, tim... wrote:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 15:06:20 on Mon, 1 Jul
2019, tim... remarked:

as I said, on level ground, Neutral works just as well

And as Roland correctly said, it's less safe.

for a tiny possibility

You should always have a
brake on when stationary.

so you say

I hope it would be a driving test failure not to have any brake on.

and who drives as per the test 40 years later?

In an important safety matter such as this?

on the one in a million chance I'm going to be rear ended

get real

It's trivial compared to the number of times a week I might slip one or
two miles over the speed limit in a built up area

Or the number of times a week I see people jump the lights as they are
turning red.Â* -Â* I try not to do that, but now that I have moved much of
my travel to being a bus passenger I am amazed at the number of times
the [1] bus driver does this

So common is this now that there is good reason to suspect that TaL
bus-drivers have been informally advised that TaL will not prosecute
them for going through traffic lights within x seconds after the light
has turned red for the direction from which they were travelling.

tim

[1] that's not the same bus driver every time I use the bus, feel free
to correct my grammar here.

London pollution monitoring
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 15:47:20 on Mon, 1 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:

I hope it would be a driving test failure not to have any brake on.

and who drives as per the test 40 years later?

In an important safety matter such as this?

on the one in a million chance I'm going to be rear ended

get real

Presumably you dislike seatbelts and air bags, because they are for
one-in-a-million trips as well?

there are far more situations where these will be useful than the subject
under discussion

and it wasn't a million to one trips

it was a million to one stops

I suspect that there are a million seconds in the year when I might be hit
whilst moving, whereas a million incidents of stopping at a line takes a
lifetime (more or less)

tim

London pollution monitoring
 

In message , at 16:44:01 on Mon, 1 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:
I hope it would be a driving test failure not to have any brake on.

and who drives as per the test 40 years later?

In an important safety matter such as this?

on the one in a million chance I'm going to be rear ended

get real

Presumably you dislike seatbelts and air bags, because they are for
one-in-a-million trips as well?

there are far more situations where these will be useful than the
subject under discussion

and it wasn't a million to one trips

it was a million to one stops

I suspect that there are a million seconds in the year when I might be
hit whilst moving, whereas a million incidents of stopping at a line
takes a lifetime (more or less)

We'll have to agree to disagree about your risk analysis.
--
Roland Perry

London pollution monitoring
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:44:01 on Mon, 1 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:
I hope it would be a driving test failure not to have any brake on.

and who drives as per the test 40 years later?

In an important safety matter such as this?

on the one in a million chance I'm going to be rear ended

get real

Presumably you dislike seatbelts and air bags, because they are for
one-in-a-million trips as well?

there are far more situations where these will be useful than the
subject under discussion

and it wasn't a million to one trips

it was a million to one stops

I suspect that there are a million seconds in the year when I might be
hit whilst moving, whereas a million incidents of stopping at a line
takes a lifetime (more or less)

We'll have to agree to disagree about your risk analysis.

Even with the handbrake on I got rammed hard enough to also incur damage
between the vehicle I was in and to the one in front.
Fortunately it was a company car so once the situation was clear other
people whose job it was handled the insurance claims and counterclaims. It
took ages and apart from answering the odd question to confirm something
or that I was standing by my original statement I was glad not to be
involved.
If applying a parking brake halves that issue in many cases then it is well
worth while doing, isn’t just a case of pressing a button or switch on many
vehicles now? Don’t even have to physically pull a lever on those.

When Southampton still had a cross channel ferry service I saw the
aftermath of an incident where there had been a 3 car shunt, you could tell
they had just come off the ferry as the first vehicle was French registered
the middle Spanish and the third Belgian.
A copper was trying to sort things out and was on the receiving end of
excited continentals all shouting their version of events in their language
, he wore a very “ why did this happen on my watch “ expression.

I expect the insurance payouts took a while to get sorted .

GH

London pollution monitoring
 

Marland wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:44:01 on Mon, 1 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:
I hope it would be a driving test failure not to have any brake on.

and who drives as per the test 40 years later?

In an important safety matter such as this?

on the one in a million chance I'm going to be rear ended

get real

Presumably you dislike seatbelts and air bags, because they are for
one-in-a-million trips as well?

there are far more situations where these will be useful than the
subject under discussion

and it wasn't a million to one trips

it was a million to one stops

I suspect that there are a million seconds in the year when I might be
hit whilst moving, whereas a million incidents of stopping at a line
takes a lifetime (more or less)

We'll have to agree to disagree about your risk analysis.

Even with the handbrake on I got rammed hard enough to also incur damage
between the vehicle I was in and to the one in front.
Fortunately it was a company car so once the situation was clear other
people whose job it was handled the insurance claims and counterclaims. It
took ages and apart from answering the odd question to confirm something
or that I was standing by my original statement I was glad not to be
involved.
If applying a parking brake halves that issue in many cases then it is well
worth while doing, isn’t just a case of pressing a button or switch on many
vehicles now? Don’t even have to physically pull a lever on those.

Yup, on my car it's just a little lever, but you never have to use it — the
car does it itself. Put the car into Park and it applies both the parking
and the transmission brakes. Put it into R or D and it releases the parking
brake automatically.


When Southampton still had a cross channel ferry service I saw the
aftermath of an incident where there had been a 3 car shunt, you could tell
they had just come off the ferry as the first vehicle was French registered
the middle Spanish and the third Belgian.
A copper was trying to sort things out and was on the receiving end of
excited continentals all shouting their version of events in their language
, he wore a very “ why did this happen on my watch “ expression.

I expect the insurance payouts took a while to get sorted .

London pollution monitoring
 

In message , at 16:00:34 on Tue, 2 Jul
2019, Marland remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:44:01 on Mon, 1 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:
I hope it would be a driving test failure not to have any brake on.

and who drives as per the test 40 years later?

In an important safety matter such as this?

on the one in a million chance I'm going to be rear ended

get real

Presumably you dislike seatbelts and air bags, because they are for
one-in-a-million trips as well?

there are far more situations where these will be useful than the
subject under discussion

and it wasn't a million to one trips

it was a million to one stops

I suspect that there are a million seconds in the year when I might be
hit whilst moving, whereas a million incidents of stopping at a line
takes a lifetime (more or less)

We'll have to agree to disagree about your risk analysis.

Even with the handbrake on I got rammed hard enough to also incur damage
between the vehicle I was in and to the one in front.

With the handbrake off, and the car merely in neutral, much worse I
expect.

If applying a parking brake halves that issue in many cases then it is well
worth while doing, isn’t just a case of pressing a button or switch on many
vehicles now? Don’t even have to physically pull a lever on those.

FSVO "many". I've yet to sit in or drive such a car.

--
Roland Perry

London pollution monitoring
 

In message , at 16:32:11 on Tue, 2 Jul 2019,
Recliner remarked:

If applying a parking brake halves that issue in many cases then it is well
worth while doing, isn’t just a case of pressing a button or switch on many
vehicles now? Don’t even have to physically pull a lever on those.

Yup, on my car it's just a little lever, but you never have to use it — the
car does it itself. Put the car into Park and it applies both the parking
and the transmission brakes. Put it into R or D and it releases the parking
brake automatically.

You don't drive a high-volume car. The whole Jaguar range is 1.2% and
falling.
--
Roland Perry

London pollution monitoring
 

Å´Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:00:34 on Tue, 2 Jul
2019, Marland remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:44:01 on Mon, 1 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:
I hope it would be a driving test failure not to have any brake on.

and who drives as per the test 40 years later?

In an important safety matter such as this?

on the one in a million chance I'm going to be rear ended

get real

Presumably you dislike seatbelts and air bags, because they are for
one-in-a-million trips as well?

there are far more situations where these will be useful than the
subject under discussion

and it wasn't a million to one trips

it was a million to one stops

I suspect that there are a million seconds in the year when I might be
hit whilst moving, whereas a million incidents of stopping at a line
takes a lifetime (more or less)

We'll have to agree to disagree about your risk analysis.

Even with the handbrake on I got rammed hard enough to also incur damage
between the vehicle I was in and to the one in front.

With the handbrake off, and the car merely in neutral, much worse I
expect.

If applying a parking brake halves that issue in many cases then it is well
worth while doing, isn’t just a case of pressing a button or switch on many
vehicles now? Don’t even have to physically pull a lever on those.

FSVO "many". I've yet to sit in or drive such a car.


I haven’t driven one, but sat in a couple and one van. The trickledown down
from top end market to more everyday cars seems to be happening quite fast,
one of the cars was a Vauxhall Astra about 3 years old and the other a
Volkswagen Golf now about 5 years old and more typical,of what many people
drive than a Range Rover or top end Mercedes . The van was a well specced
Ford Transit about six months old.
I would not be surprised if they will rapidly become more common as models
come up for replacement or revamp as getting rid of a big mechanical lever
in favour of a discreet button or flap switch gives designers the chance to
make the interior look a little tidier ,spacious or room for another cup
holder.

GH

London pollution monitoring
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:32:11 on Tue, 2 Jul 2019,
Recliner remarked:

If applying a parking brake halves that issue in many cases then it is well
worth while doing, isn’t just a case of pressing a button or switch on many
vehicles now? Don’t even have to physically pull a lever on those.

Yup, on my car it's just a little lever, but you never have to use it — the
car does it itself. Put the car into Park and it applies both the parking
and the transmission brakes. Put it into R or D and it releases the parking
brake automatically.

You don't drive a high-volume car. The whole Jaguar range is 1.2% and
falling.

Sure, but my X350 model was first introduced back in 2003. That level of
tech may have been considered high-end and exotic back then, but it's
trickled down to volume cars since then. For example, the automatic
headlights and wipers in that car were fairly rare then, but are common
now. My car doesn't have auto-dipping LED headlights, but many modern cars
do. And voice control was rare then, but is much more common, and better,
in current cars.

London pollution monitoring
 

In message , at 19:38:06 on Tue, 2 Jul 2019,
Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:32:11 on Tue, 2 Jul 2019,
Recliner remarked:

If applying a parking brake halves that issue in many cases then it is well
worth while doing, isn’t just a case of pressing a button or
switch on many
vehicles now? Don’t even have to physically pull a lever on those.

Yup, on my car it's just a little lever, but you never have to use
it — the
car does it itself. Put the car into Park and it applies both the parking
and the transmission brakes. Put it into R or D and it releases the parking
brake automatically.

You don't drive a high-volume car. The whole Jaguar range is 1.2% and
falling.

Sure, but my X350 model was first introduced back in 2003. That level of
tech may have been considered high-end and exotic back then, but it's
trickled down to volume cars since then. For example, the automatic
headlights and wipers in that car were fairly rare then, but are common
now. My car doesn't have auto-dipping LED headlights, but many modern cars
do. And voice control was rare then, but is much more common, and better,
in current cars.

I sincerely hope that less of this technology gets into cars, because
it's OK when it works, and disastrous when it doesn't.

I had to help someone with a Honda Jazz which we couldn't get out of the
garage to jump-start, because without battery charge it was impossible
to release the automatic parking brake.
--
Roland Perry

London pollution monitoring
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 19:38:06 on Tue, 2 Jul 2019,
Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:32:11 on Tue, 2 Jul 2019,
Recliner remarked:

If applying a parking brake halves that issue in many cases then it is
well
worth while doing, isn’t just a case of pressing a button or switch on
many
vehicles now? Don’t even have to physically pull a lever on those.

Yup, on my car it's just a little lever, but you never have to use it —
the
car does it itself. Put the car into Park and it applies both the
parking
and the transmission brakes. Put it into R or D and it releases the
parking
brake automatically.

You don't drive a high-volume car. The whole Jaguar range is 1.2% and
falling.

Sure, but my X350 model was first introduced back in 2003. That level of
tech may have been considered high-end and exotic back then, but it's
trickled down to volume cars since then. For example, the automatic
headlights and wipers in that car were fairly rare then, but are common
now. My car doesn't have auto-dipping LED headlights, but many modern cars
do. And voice control was rare then, but is much more common, and better,
in current cars.

I sincerely hope that less of this technology gets into cars, because it's
OK when it works, and disastrous when it doesn't.

I've just scrapped a perfectly servable car because some peripheral
electronic component failed and cost more to repair that the car is worth

tim

London pollution monitoring
 

"Marland" wrote in message
...
Å´Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:00:34 on Tue, 2 Jul
2019, Marland remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:44:01 on Mon, 1 Jul
2019,
tim... remarked:
I hope it would be a driving test failure not to have any brake
on.

and who drives as per the test 40 years later?

In an important safety matter such as this?

on the one in a million chance I'm going to be rear ended

get real

Presumably you dislike seatbelts and air bags, because they are for
one-in-a-million trips as well?

there are far more situations where these will be useful than the
subject under discussion

and it wasn't a million to one trips

it was a million to one stops

I suspect that there are a million seconds in the year when I might be
hit whilst moving, whereas a million incidents of stopping at a line
takes a lifetime (more or less)

We'll have to agree to disagree about your risk analysis.

Even with the handbrake on I got rammed hard enough to also incur damage
between the vehicle I was in and to the one in front.

With the handbrake off, and the car merely in neutral, much worse I
expect.

If applying a parking brake halves that issue in many cases then it is
well
worth while doing, isn’t just a case of pressing a button or switch on
many
vehicles now? Don’t even have to physically pull a lever on those.

FSVO "many". I've yet to sit in or drive such a car.


I haven’t driven one, but sat in a couple and one van. The trickledown
down
from top end market to more everyday cars seems to be happening quite
fast,
one of the cars was a Vauxhall Astra about 3 years old and the other a
Volkswagen Golf now about 5 years old and more typical,of what many
people
drive than a Range Rover or top end Mercedes . The van was a well specced
Ford Transit about six months old.
I would not be surprised if they will rapidly become more common as models
come up for replacement or revamp as getting rid of a big mechanical lever
in favour of a discreet button or flap switch gives designers the chance
to
make the interior look a little tidier ,spacious or room for another cup
holder.

some years ago I bought a 10 YO Fiesta Ghia

It was less well speced than the then-current GL model

but because it was a "Ghia" was in a higher insurance group

tim





GH

London pollution monitoring
 

In message , at 10:27:58 on Wed, 3 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:

I sincerely hope that less of this technology gets into cars, because
it's OK when it works, and disastrous when it doesn't.

I've just scrapped a perfectly servable car because some peripheral
electronic component failed and cost more to repair that the car is
worth

I've been there - a $10 part that the main dealer charges £1000 to fit,
and because it was 'electronically keyed' to the engine, independents
can't do it. Another common issue is engine management systems giving
up the ghost, and costing more to buy a new one than the car is worth.

--
Roland Perry

London pollution monitoring
 

In message , at 10:30:55 on Wed, 3 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:

some years ago I bought a 10 YO Fiesta Ghia

It was less well speced than the then-current GL model

but because it was a "Ghia" was in a higher insurance group

The model is a proxy for the demographic of the people who tend to buy
them, and your insurance company had decided that on balance people
buying the Ghia were worse drivers than those buying the GL. They'll
have some stats to back that up, of course.
--
Roland Perry

London pollution monitoring
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:30:55 on Wed, 3 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:

some years ago I bought a 10 YO Fiesta Ghia

It was less well speced than the then-current GL model

but because it was a "Ghia" was in a higher insurance group

The model is a proxy for the demographic of the people who tend to buy
them, and your insurance company had decided that on balance people buying
the Ghia were worse drivers than those buying the GL. They'll have some
stats to back that up, of course.

New perhaps

10 years old, you just get what's available that week

(that how I ended up with the Micra)

tim


--
Roland Perry

London pollution monitoring
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:27:58 on Wed, 3 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:

I sincerely hope that less of this technology gets into cars, because
it's OK when it works, and disastrous when it doesn't.

I've just scrapped a perfectly servable car because some peripheral
electronic component failed and cost more to repair that the car is worth

I've been there - a $10 part that the main dealer charges £1000 to fit,
and because it was 'electronically keyed' to the engine, independents
can't do it. Another common issue is engine management systems giving up
the ghost, and costing more to buy a new one than the car is worth.

It was a sensor

probably no more than 5 pounds in value

but the inaccessibility of it - 500 pounds to fit, please!

Or not!!!

tim

London pollution monitoring
 

In message , at 11:30:35 on Wed, 3 Jul 2019,
tim... remarked:

some years ago I bought a 10 YO Fiesta Ghia

It was less well speced than the then-current GL model

but because it was a "Ghia" was in a higher insurance group

The model is a proxy for the demographic of the people who tend to
buy them, and your insurance company had decided that on balance
people buying the Ghia were worse drivers than those buying the GL.
They'll have some stats to back that up, of course.

New perhaps

10 years old, you just get what's available that week

(that how I ended up with the Micra)

Their stats must show that the effect doesn't completely wear off, for
the average buyer (which I doubt anyone will accuse you of being).
--
Roland Perry

London pollution monitoring
 

On 02/07/2019 17:00, Marland wrote:

I expect the insurance payouts took a while to get sorted .

Motorists in all three countries mentioned carry a "Constat Aimable",
which is almost entirely graphic, and lets the insurance companies work
out who owes how much to whom quite quickly and easily.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

London pollution monitoring
 

John Williamson wrote:
On 02/07/2019 17:00, Marland wrote:

I expect the insurance payouts took a while to get sorted .

Motorists in all three countries mentioned carry a "Constat Aimable",
which is almost entirely graphic, and lets the insurance companies work
out who owes how much to whom quite quickly and easily.



Sounds sensible, would it have been around in the 1980’s and more pertinent
perhaps would it have been known about by the British Policeman surveying
the scene in the 4th county mentioned ?
If not perhaps his attempts to sort things out was making things worse and
he would have been better to let them get on with it.

GH

London pollution monitoring
 

On 04/07/2019 21:39, Marland wrote:


Sounds sensible, would it have been around in the 1980’s and more pertinent
perhaps would it have been known about by the British Policeman surveying
the scene in the 4th county mentioned ?
If not perhaps his attempts to sort things out was making things worse and
he would have been better to let them get on with it.

GH

I can't remember a time when I've not carried one in mainland Europe,
but I only started driving there professionally in the mid 1980s.

It may well have been better for the policeman to leave well alone, but
if there were problems being caused for other road users, he'd be bound
to do his best to sort it out.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

London pollution monitoring
 

On 01/07/2019 08:40, Recliner wrote:
In my car, the parking brake is also automatic. It's applied whenever you
stop, and released automatically when you're out of P mode. The doors lock
as soon as you start moving.

So how are you supposed to drive it off a cliff and escape at the last
moment?

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Banyan - 1997 - Banyan

London pollution monitoring
 

Basil Jet wrote:
On 01/07/2019 08:40, Recliner wrote:
In my car, the parking brake is also automatic. It's applied whenever you
stop, and released automatically when you're out of P mode. The doors lock
as soon as you start moving.

So how are you supposed to drive it off a cliff and escape at the last
moment?


Sunroof.


GH