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Old May 10th 19, 08:25 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Air pollution: Snuff out scented candles and avoid Tube — how to clean your
air

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/air-pollution-snuff-out-scented-candles-and-avoid-tube-how-to-clean-your-air-gps5l9s8r?shareToken=43853b15aafb2b53bcc5cd879b454 691

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Old May 10th 19, 09:37 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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On 10/05/2019 09:25, Recliner wrote:
Air pollution: Snuff out scented candles and avoid Tube — how to clean your
air

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/air-pollution-snuff-out-scented-candles-and-avoid-tube-how-to-clean-your-air-gps5l9s8r?shareToken=43853b15aafb2b53bcc5cd879b454 691


Usual problem with these sort of tests, they are only measuring one type
of pollutant. Tends to lead to simplistic "cures" that only address part
of the problem. It was the same concentration on one pollutant and
ignoring the others that gave us the Diesel Disaster.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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Old May 10th 19, 09:52 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Graeme Wall wrote:
On 10/05/2019 09:25, Recliner wrote:
Air pollution: Snuff out scented candles and avoid Tube — how to clean your
air

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/air-pollution-snuff-out-scented-candles-and-avoid-tube-how-to-clean-your-air-gps5l9s8r?shareToken=43853b15aafb2b53bcc5cd879b454 691


Usual problem with these sort of tests, they are only measuring one type
of pollutant. Tends to lead to simplistic "cures" that only address part
of the problem. It was the same concentration on one pollutant and
ignoring the others that gave us the Diesel Disaster.


True, though particulates seem to be one of the main causes of urban
ill-health. That's now a much bigger factor than global warming, at least
as far as local regulations are concerned.

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Old May 10th 19, 12:33 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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On 10/05/2019 10:52, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 10/05/2019 09:25, Recliner wrote:
Air pollution: Snuff out scented candles and avoid Tube — how to clean your
air

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/air-pollution-snuff-out-scented-candles-and-avoid-tube-how-to-clean-your-air-gps5l9s8r?shareToken=43853b15aafb2b53bcc5cd879b454 691


Usual problem with these sort of tests, they are only measuring one type
of pollutant. Tends to lead to simplistic "cures" that only address part
of the problem. It was the same concentration on one pollutant and
ignoring the others that gave us the Diesel Disaster.


True, though particulates seem to be one of the main causes of urban
ill-health. That's now a much bigger factor than global warming, at least
as far as local regulations are concerned.


My point was that there are several types of particulate, acknowledged
in the article. The exercise only monitored one of them. By
concentrating on one of them we run the risk of a simplistic "fix" at
best leaving the others as they are or at worst exacerbating the
problems caused by the others. Which is what happened with the diesel
disaster. By only addressing the CO2 problem they made the health
problem far worse.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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Old May 10th 19, 03:17 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Graeme Wall wrote:
On 10/05/2019 10:52, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 10/05/2019 09:25, Recliner wrote:
Air pollution: Snuff out scented candles and avoid Tube — how to clean your
air

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/air-pollution-snuff-out-scented-candles-and-avoid-tube-how-to-clean-your-air-gps5l9s8r?shareToken=43853b15aafb2b53bcc5cd879b454 691


Usual problem with these sort of tests, they are only measuring one type
of pollutant. Tends to lead to simplistic "cures" that only address part
of the problem. It was the same concentration on one pollutant and
ignoring the others that gave us the Diesel Disaster.


True, though particulates seem to be one of the main causes of urban
ill-health. That's now a much bigger factor than global warming, at least
as far as local regulations are concerned.


My point was that there are several types of particulate, acknowledged
in the article. The exercise only monitored one of them. By
concentrating on one of them we run the risk of a simplistic "fix" at
best leaving the others as they are or at worst exacerbating the
problems caused by the others. Which is what happened with the diesel
disaster. By only addressing the CO2 problem they made the health
problem far worse.


Yes, that's true.



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Old May 11th 19, 08:57 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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On 10/05/2019 10:37, Graeme Wall wrote:

On 10/05/2019 09:25, Recliner wrote:


Air pollution: Snuff out scented candles and avoid Tube — how to clean
your
air

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/air-pollution-snuff-out-scented-candles-and-avoid-tube-how-to-clean-your-air-gps5l9s8r?shareToken=43853b15aafb2b53bcc5cd879b454 691

Usual problem with these sort of tests, they are only measuring one type
of pollutant. Tends to lead to simplistic "cures" that only address part
of the problem.* It was the same concentration on one pollutant and
ignoring the others that gave us the Diesel Disaster.


To what are you referring when you use the phrase "diesel disaster"?

The obvious disaster is the losses incurred by those who followed
government advice and incentives by buying diesel cars rather than
petrol and are now being penalised for it?

It must be that.
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Old May 11th 19, 09:26 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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On 11/05/2019 09:57, JNugent wrote:
On 10/05/2019 10:37, Graeme Wall wrote:

On 10/05/2019 09:25, Recliner wrote:


Air pollution: Snuff out scented candles and avoid Tube — how to
clean your
air

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/air-pollution-snuff-out-scented-candles-and-avoid-tube-how-to-clean-your-air-gps5l9s8r?shareToken=43853b15aafb2b53bcc5cd879b454 691

Usual problem with these sort of tests, they are only measuring one
type of pollutant. Tends to lead to simplistic "cures" that only
address part of the problem.* It was the same concentration on one
pollutant and ignoring the others that gave us the Diesel Disaster.


To what are you referring when you use the phrase "diesel disaster"?

The obvious disaster is the losses incurred by those who followed
government advice and incentives by buying diesel cars rather than
petrol and are now being penalised for it?

It must be that.

That is a symptom, not the problem. The problem is by wanting a quick
political fix for CO2 emissions they ignored the fact that diesels are
responsible for much greater general pollution even if the manufacturers
hadn't been cheating on the tests.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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Old May 11th 19, 10:43 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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On 11/05/2019 10:26, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 11/05/2019 09:57, JNugent wrote:


The obvious disaster is the losses incurred by those who followed
government advice and incentives by buying diesel cars rather than
petrol and are now being penalised for it?

It must be that.

That is a symptom, not the problem. The problem is by wanting a quick
political fix for CO2 emissions they ignored the fact that diesels are
responsible for much greater general pollution even if the manufacturers
hadn't been cheating on the tests.

At the time when the government were pushing for diesel cars, all the
green lobby were bemoaning how much more CO2 petrol cars emitted than
diesel, so all petrol cars must be replaced immediately by diesel ones.
When it was pointed out that petrol ones were cleaner in other ways than
diesel, they effectively just put their fingers in their ears "La, la,
la. I can't hear you. Got to reduce CO2 to save the planet"

Slightly related to this, I run a G-Wiz, and have worked out that using
the normal mix of generation in the UK, my CO2 emissions are equivalent
to a petrol car doing 40 MPG.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.
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Old May 11th 19, 01:03 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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JNugent wrote:

To what are you referring when you use the phrase "diesel disaster"?

The obvious disaster is the losses incurred by those who followed
government advice and incentives by buying diesel cars rather than
petrol and are now being penalised for it?

It must be that.


Exactly. Because government sponsored social engineering always works out so
well.
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Old May 11th 19, 08:22 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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On 11/05/2019 10:26, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 11/05/2019 09:57, JNugent wrote:
On 10/05/2019 10:37, Graeme Wall wrote:

On 10/05/2019 09:25, Recliner wrote:


Air pollution: Snuff out scented candles and avoid Tube — how to
clean your
air

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/air-pollution-snuff-out-scented-candles-and-avoid-tube-how-to-clean-your-air-gps5l9s8r?shareToken=43853b15aafb2b53bcc5cd879b454 691

Usual problem with these sort of tests, they are only measuring one
type of pollutant. Tends to lead to simplistic "cures" that only
address part of the problem.* It was the same concentration on one
pollutant and ignoring the others that gave us the Diesel Disaster.


To what are you referring when you use the phrase "diesel disaster"?

The obvious disaster is the losses incurred by those who followed
government advice and incentives by buying diesel cars rather than
petrol and are now being penalised for it?

It must be that.


That is a symptom, not the problem.* The problem is by wanting a quick
political fix for CO2 emissions they ignored the fact that diesels are
responsible for much greater general pollution even if the manufacturers
hadn't been cheating on the tests.


Taking you at your word, that may be a problem.

But where is the "disaster"?

[By that, I mean other than the financial disaster which has befallen
anyone stuck with a running term of car finance and now having to find
an extra £62.50 a week - or more - simply to be where they were before
Khan stabbed them in the back. Obviously.]


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