In message , at 08:45:36 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
tim... remarked:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...21daed84a5f553
e362f97fc7a5a7

so the reasons seem to be:

because he got government grant of 3,500 - for a near 50 grand car
(after options) is that really a deal maker?

So he can save on the ultra-low emission zone fee, - surely your
average second hand petrol model achieves that

not very compelling, is it?

The various greenwash suspicions are interestingly at odds with a much
earlier decision not to buy Priuses(sp) as ministerial cars, because
their overall footprint wasn't regarded as sufficiently compelling.

especially as he admits himself that there are not enough public charge
points - there's not a single one within parking distance of my house

The nearest two Tesla chargers to my house are both 15 minutes drive,
and at hotel/B&B type locations. Are those truly "public"?

I'm surprised to see there's a "Pod point" [whatever that is] charger at
the Sainsbury's, because I've never noticed it. I'll go take a proper
look tomorrow.
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, Sep 08, 2019 at 09:32:13AM +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

The nearest two Tesla chargers to my house are both 15 minutes drive,
and at hotel/B&B type locations. Are those truly "public"?

As I noted the last time people here were stupidly trying to convince
people that electric vehicles were ready for use by real people, the
internet says that there are two public charging stations in the town of
40,000 that my parents live in. Those "public" charging stations are on
the premises of a hotel, in a car park with prominent signs saying that
it is for paying guests only, and on the forecourt of a Hyundai dealer,
so I *ass*ume that other manufacturers' vehicles aren't welcome.

--
David Cantrell | Pope | First Church of the Symmetrical Internet

Anyone willing to give up a little fun for tolerance deserves neither

On Mon, 09 Sep 2019 09:42:48 +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
As I noted the last time people here were stupidly trying to convince
people that electric vehicles were ready for use by real people, the
internet says that there are two public charging stations in the town of
40,000 that my parents live in.

Around half the people in that town have private drives so can install
a private charger like Grant Shapps.

David Walters wrote:
On Mon, 09 Sep 2019 09:42:48 +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
As I noted the last time people here were stupidly trying to convince
people that electric vehicles were ready for use by real people, the
internet says that there are two public charging stations in the town of
40,000 that my parents live in.

Around half the people in that town have private drives so can install
a private charger like Grant Shapps.


That sounds like quite a high proportion. Presumably it's a leafy small
town with most houses detached or semi-detached with large front gardens,
and few terrace houses or flats? That's not typical of the urban areas for
which BEVs are best suited.

On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 11:16:41 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
David Walters wrote:
On Mon, 09 Sep 2019 09:42:48 +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
As I noted the last time people here were stupidly trying to convince
people that electric vehicles were ready for use by real people, the
internet says that there are two public charging stations in the town of
40,000 that my parents live in.

Around half the people in that town have private drives so can install
a private charger like Grant Shapps.


That sounds like quite a high proportion. Presumably it's a leafy small
town with most houses detached or semi-detached with large front gardens,
and few terrace houses or flats? That's not typical of the urban areas for
which BEVs are best suited.

In England in 2010 40% of dwellings had use of a garage and 26% had
other off street parking[1]. I am assuming that those with garages have
a car sized bit of drive in front on which they can park their car even
if they don't put it in the car. I'm sure there are exceptions but we
can loose a lot before we drop 16%.

Examples of towns with a population of 40,000, as cited by David Cantrell,
include Bishop's Stortford[2]. A very unscientific look at the aerial
images of the town suggests to me that more than half the homes have
off street parking.

There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car, they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population could
charge at home.

[1] https://assets.publishing.service.go...48/2173483.pdf

[2] Closest to 40k in https://www.thegeographist.com/uk-ci...pulation-1000/

In message , at 14:58:36 on
Mon, 9 Sep 2019, David Walters remarked:

As I noted the last time people here were stupidly trying to convince
people that electric vehicles were ready for use by real people, the
internet says that there are two public charging stations in the town of
40,000 that my parents live in.

Around half the people in that town have private drives so can install
a private charger like Grant Shapps.

That sounds like quite a high proportion. Presumably it's a leafy small
town with most houses detached or semi-detached with large front gardens,
and few terrace houses or flats? That's not typical of the urban areas for
which BEVs are best suited.

In England in 2010 40% of dwellings had use of a garage and 26% had
other off street parking[1]. I am assuming that those with garages have
a car sized bit of drive in front on which they can park their car even
if they don't put it in the car. I'm sure there are exceptions but we
can loose a lot before we drop 16%.

Then there's the houses with more than one car, and with garages which
are either too small to put a modern car into, or are being used as
lock-ups instead.

Modern estate houses (typically link-detached) built in the last 20yrs
will also tend not to have a usable space in front of the garage,
courtesy of planners who wrongly believe that restricting parking to one
per house will restrict the number of cars people have.

It's also the case that most blocks of garages (another feature of
estates) are no supplied with power, and are sufficiently far from the
associated houses that you couldn't even run an extension lead safely.

You could add to that the many garages at the bottoms of people's
gardens, where power could be run, but at some considerable expense.
--
Roland Perry

On 09/09/2019 14:58, David Walters wrote:

There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car, they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population could
charge at home.

So what do the other half do..? We live in a flat with only on-street
parking available. To rip up the streets to install kerbside charging
points would not be cost effective - the existing cabling would not
stand the load on the system of everyone in the street with a car all
coming home from work at 6pm and plugging in.

I've said it before, the way forward is hydrogen. It takes no longer to
fill up than a petrol car and although it may not be as economical, it
would be far easier to install pumps at existing petrol stations than
charging points everywhere.

--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 09/09/2019 14:58, David Walters wrote:

There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car, they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population could
charge at home.

So what do the other half do..? We live in a flat with only on-street
parking available. To rip up the streets to install kerbside charging
points would not be cost effective - the existing cabling would not
stand the load on the system of everyone in the street with a car all
coming home from work at 6pm and plugging in.

I've said it before, the way forward is hydrogen. It takes no longer to
fill up than a petrol car and although it may not be as economical, it
would be far easier to install pumps at existing petrol stations than
charging points everywhere.


Certainly, hydrogen is better at the consumer level: the cars are lighter,
quicker to fill, and have more range. They also don't need so much exotic
materials as batteries do.

But the industry would need to crack the problem of producing and
distributing clean hydrogen, probably from solar or wind power, on an
industrial scale, at an affordable price. I really hope that happens, but
it's obviously not imminent. So, in the mean time, low emissions cars will
have to use batteries.

When hydrogen does become viable, it'll probably come first to heavy, long
distance vehicles, like trains, tracks and high performance highway cars.
Short range city cars will probably stick with batteries, but they'll get a
lot quicker to charge than current ones.

On Mon, Sep 09, 2019 at 10:40:06PM +0100, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 09/09/2019 14:58, David Walters wrote:
There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car, they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population could
charge at home.
So what do the other half do..? We live in a flat with only on-street
parking available. To rip up the streets to install kerbside charging
points would not be cost effective - the existing cabling would not
stand the load on the system of everyone in the street with a car all
coming home from work at 6pm and plugging in.

The existing electrical distribution system (it's more than just the
cables) wouldn't stand up to a street full of chargers on private land
either.

I've said it before, the way forward is hydrogen. It takes no longer to
fill up than a petrol car and although it may not be as economical, it
would be far easier to install pumps at existing petrol stations than
charging points everywhere.

Hydrogen is an absolute bugger to store and transport and has some
rather serious safety issues. It also has a lot lower lower energy
density than petrol or diesel.

--
David Cantrell | Godless Liberal Elitist

Erudite is when you make a classical allusion to a
feather. Kinky is when you use the whole chicken.

On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 22:40:06 +0100, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 09/09/2019 14:58, David Walters wrote:

There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car, they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population could
charge at home.

So what do the other half do..?

Something else. There doesn't need to be one solution for everyone.