Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

On 09/11/2019 17:09, wrote:
Well until we see a crossrail timetable there's no way to tell, but having
commuted all the way to hatton cross and back each day for 9 months on that
line I would be very surprised if it was the same end to end. It is utterly
hopeless especially in the rush hour - it literally crawls through west london
and only once past hammersmith does it reach anything approaching a reasonable
speed. And then there'd usually be some pointless delay at Acton. I actually
terminated the contract early because I couldn't stand it any longer, almost
2 hours each way door to door on a bad day (which was most of them).

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Fuzz Against Junk - 2007 - Netti Netti

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

In message , Basil Jet
writes
On 09/11/2019 17:09, wrote:
Well until we see a crossrail timetable there's no way to tell, but having
commuted all the way to hatton cross and back each day for 9 months on that
line I would be very surprised if it was the same end to end. It is utterly
hopeless especially in the rush hour - it literally crawls through
west london
and only once past hammersmith does it reach anything approaching a
reasonable
speed. And then there'd usually be some pointless delay at Acton. I actually
terminated the contract early because I couldn't stand it any longer, almost
2 hours each way door to door on a bad day (which was most of them).

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.
--
Bryan Morris

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

In message , at 14:24:18 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, Bryan Morris remarked:

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.

That's the deepest under the surface, but the surface is a hill! Air
pressure on the surface there will be lower as a result, by about 2.5%

I think the deepest below sea level (from memory) is the Jubilee between
Westminster and Waterloo.

Later: Hampstead Station is approx 200m above sea level at the surface,
140m above sea level at the platform. Westminster and Waterloo Jubilee
Line platforms are between 25-26m below sea level.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:24:18 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, Bryan Morris remarked:

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.

That's the deepest under the surface, but the surface is a hill! Air
pressure on the surface there will be lower as a result, by about 2.5%

I think the deepest below sea level (from memory) is the Jubilee between
Westminster and Waterloo.

Later: Hampstead Station is approx 200m above sea level at the surface,
140m above sea level at the platform. Westminster and Waterloo Jubilee
Line platforms are between 25-26m below sea level.

What about the DLR at Bank?

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

In message , at 17:10:16 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, Recliner remarked:

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.

That's the deepest under the surface, but the surface is a hill! Air
pressure on the surface there will be lower as a result, by about 2.5%

I think the deepest below sea level (from memory) is the Jubilee between
Westminster and Waterloo.

Later: Hampstead Station is approx 200m above sea level at the surface,
140m above sea level at the platform. Westminster and Waterloo Jubilee
Line platforms are between 25-26m below sea level.

What about the DLR at Bank?

Gets tangled up in whether it's a "tube" service or not.

But maybe people can comment on whether it's also "unbearably deep",
nevertheless.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:10:16 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, Recliner remarked:

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.

That's the deepest under the surface, but the surface is a hill! Air
pressure on the surface there will be lower as a result, by about 2.5%

I think the deepest below sea level (from memory) is the Jubilee between
Westminster and Waterloo.

Later: Hampstead Station is approx 200m above sea level at the surface,
140m above sea level at the platform. Westminster and Waterloo Jubilee
Line platforms are between 25-26m below sea level.

What about the DLR at Bank?

Gets tangled up in whether it's a "tube" service or not.

Well, they're bored tube tunnels.


But maybe people can comment on whether it's also "unbearably deep",
nevertheless.

I don't notice any depth effects on any of these underground lines, nor the
Channel, nor even the Seikan Tunnel (240m below sea level). Similarly, I
don't get light-headed 240m above sea level.

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

On 15/11/2019 17:31, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:10:16 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, Recliner remarked:

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.

That's the deepest under the surface, but the surface is a hill! Air
pressure on the surface there will be lower as a result, by about 2.5%

I think the deepest below sea level (from memory) is the Jubilee between
Westminster and Waterloo.

Later: Hampstead Station is approx 200m above sea level at the surface,
140m above sea level at the platform. Westminster and Waterloo Jubilee
Line platforms are between 25-26m below sea level.

What about the DLR at Bank?

Gets tangled up in whether it's a "tube" service or not.

Why would that be an issue?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 15/11/2019 17:31, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:10:16 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, Recliner remarked:

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.

That's the deepest under the surface, but the surface is a hill! Air
pressure on the surface there will be lower as a result, by about 2.5%

I think the deepest below sea level (from memory) is the Jubilee between
Westminster and Waterloo.

Later: Hampstead Station is approx 200m above sea level at the surface,
140m above sea level at the platform. Westminster and Waterloo Jubilee
Line platforms are between 25-26m below sea level.

What about the DLR at Bank?

Gets tangled up in whether it's a "tube" service or not.

Why would that be an issue?


Because Roland hadn’t thought of it and was trying to confine this thread
diversion to tube tunnels to disguise that, even though Basil had already
introduced non tube tunnels in his post by writing “ no other tunnel
affects me like that, not even the Chunnel�.

GH

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 15:17:03 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:24:18 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, Bryan Morris remarked:

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.

That's the deepest under the surface, but the surface is a hill! Air
pressure on the surface there will be lower as a result, by about 2.5%

I think the deepest below sea level (from memory) is the Jubilee between
Westminster and Waterloo.

Later: Hampstead Station is approx 200m above sea level at the surface,
140m above sea level at the platform.

Not it isn't. The highest point of the heath which is well above the tube
station is 134m. I'm guessing the station entrance is around 80-90m.

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

In message , at 20:34:40 on Fri, 15
Nov 2019, Marland remarked:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 15/11/2019 17:31, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:10:16 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, Recliner remarked:

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.

That's the deepest under the surface, but the surface is a hill! Air
pressure on the surface there will be lower as a result, by about 2.5%

I think the deepest below sea level (from memory) is the Jubilee between
Westminster and Waterloo.

Later: Hampstead Station is approx 200m above sea level at the surface,
140m above sea level at the platform. Westminster and Waterloo Jubilee
Line platforms are between 25-26m below sea level.

What about the DLR at Bank?

Gets tangled up in whether it's a "tube" service or not.

Why would that be an issue?

Because Roland hadn’t thought of it and was trying to confine this thread
diversion to tube tunnels to disguise that, even though Basil had already
introduced non tube tunnels in his post by writing “ no other tunnel
affects me like that, not even the Chunnel�.

I did think of it, and looked it up, but decided my original bid for the
Jubilee Line was more consistent with the theme.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

In message , at 20:41:41 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, remarked:
On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 15:17:03 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:24:18 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, Bryan Morris remarked:

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.

That's the deepest under the surface, but the surface is a hill! Air
pressure on the surface there will be lower as a result, by about 2.5%

I think the deepest below sea level (from memory) is the Jubilee between
Westminster and Waterloo.

Later: Hampstead Station is approx 200m above sea level at the surface,
140m above sea level at the platform.

Not it isn't. The highest point of the heath which is well above the tube
station is 134m. I'm guessing the station entrance is around 80-90m.

That's what one gets for looking things up at what turns out to be an
unreliable source. I still believe that the platforms are 60m below the
surface, which a more reliable source puts at 376ft (ie 115m).
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

In article , Graeme Wall
writes
You can buy a ticket for the S-Bahn at the terminal too. As we'd just
missed a CAT train we actually got to Mitte earlier than if we'd paid
the extra.
Quite possibly. But I couldn't be bothered to search out options.
Machines right next to the counter where you get the CAT tickets.

If I ever go again, I'll try to remember that.

On the other hand, I had a nice train ride in Business Class (better
than 1st class) from Vienna to Zurich on the way back. 25 minutes late
arriving because a Swiss train was late to our single line crossing
point in Liechtenstein.

--
Clive D.W. Feather

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

In message , Roland Perry
writes
In message , at 20:41:41 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, remarked:
On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 15:17:03 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:24:18 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, Bryan Morris remarked:

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.

That's the deepest under the surface, but the surface is a hill! Air
pressure on the surface there will be lower as a result, by about 2.5%

I think the deepest below sea level (from memory) is the Jubilee between
Westminster and Waterloo.

Later: Hampstead Station is approx 200m above sea level at the surface,
140m above sea level at the platform.

Not it isn't. The highest point of the heath which is well above the tube
station is 134m. I'm guessing the station entrance is around 80-90m.

That's what one gets for looking things up at what turns out to be an
unreliable source. I still believe that the platforms are 60m below the
surface, which a more reliable source puts at 376ft (ie 115m).

Hampstead is on a steep hill and the station platforms are the deepest
on the London Underground network, at 58.5 metres (192 ft) below ground
level. It has the deepest lift shaft on the Underground at 55 metres
(180 ft) which houses high-speed lifts.
Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampstead_tube_station
--
Bryan Morris

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

In message , Bryan Morris
writes
In message , Roland Perry
writes
In message , at 20:41:41 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, remarked:
On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 15:17:03 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:24:18 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, Bryan Morris remarked:

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.

That's the deepest under the surface, but the surface is a hill! Air
pressure on the surface there will be lower as a result, by about 2.5%

I think the deepest below sea level (from memory) is the Jubilee between
Westminster and Waterloo.

Later: Hampstead Station is approx 200m above sea level at the surface,
140m above sea level at the platform.

Not it isn't. The highest point of the heath which is well above the tube
station is 134m. I'm guessing the station entrance is around 80-90m.

That's what one gets for looking things up at what turns out to be an
unreliable source. I still believe that the platforms are 60m below
the surface, which a more reliable source puts at 376ft (ie 115m).

Hampstead is on a steep hill and the station platforms are the deepest
on the London Underground network, at 58.5 metres (192 ft) below ground
level. It has the deepest lift shaft on the Underground at 55 metres
(180 ft) which houses high-speed lifts.
Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampstead_tube_station

BTW - I used to live in Highgate and frequently travelled Hampstead
Lane/Heath Street to my office . Hampstead station is not at the top of
the Hill (I might be wrong but it's the Pond by the Heath that's
probably the apex) so the line is further under ground there than at the
station.
--
Bryan Morris

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , Bryan Morris
writes
In message , Roland Perry
writes
In message , at 20:41:41 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, remarked:
On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 15:17:03 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:24:18 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, Bryan Morris remarked:

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.

That's the deepest under the surface, but the surface is a hill! Air
pressure on the surface there will be lower as a result, by about 2.5%

I think the deepest below sea level (from memory) is the Jubilee between
Westminster and Waterloo.

Later: Hampstead Station is approx 200m above sea level at the surface,
140m above sea level at the platform.

Not it isn't. The highest point of the heath which is well above the tube
station is 134m. I'm guessing the station entrance is around 80-90m.

That's what one gets for looking things up at what turns out to be an
unreliable source. I still believe that the platforms are 60m below
the surface, which a more reliable source puts at 376ft (ie 115m).

Hampstead is on a steep hill and the station platforms are the deepest
on the London Underground network, at 58.5 metres (192 ft) below ground
level. It has the deepest lift shaft on the Underground at 55 metres
(180 ft) which houses high-speed lifts.
Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampstead_tube_station

BTW - I used to live in Highgate and frequently travelled Hampstead
Lane/Heath Street to my office . Hampstead station is not at the top of
the Hill (I might be wrong but it's the Pond by the Heath that's
probably the apex) so the line is further under ground there than at the
station.

Isn’t the deepest bit near the site of the unfinished North End Station now
better known by the unofficial name Bull and Bush?

GH

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

In message , at 22:48:37 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, Bryan Morris remarked:
In message , Roland Perry
writes
In message , at 20:41:41 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, remarked:
On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 15:17:03 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:24:18 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, Bryan Morris remarked:

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.

That's the deepest under the surface, but the surface is a hill! Air
pressure on the surface there will be lower as a result, by about 2.5%

I think the deepest below sea level (from memory) is the Jubilee between
Westminster and Waterloo.

Later: Hampstead Station is approx 200m above sea level at the surface,
140m above sea level at the platform.

Not it isn't. The highest point of the heath which is well above the tube
station is 134m. I'm guessing the station entrance is around 80-90m.

That's what one gets for looking things up at what turns out to be an
unreliable source. I still believe that the platforms are 60m below
the surface, which a more reliable source puts at 376ft (ie 115m).

Hampstead is on a steep hill and the station platforms are the deepest
on the London Underground network, at 58.5 metres (192 ft) below ground
level. It has the deepest lift shaft on the Underground at 55 metres
(180 ft) which houses high-speed lifts.
Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampstead_tube_station

Indeed, but if the earlier poster was having difficulty breathing due to
depth, it could be attributed to air pressure, which is a factor of
sea-level, not depth from the surface. However as the effect is less
than 1% at such depths, perhaps it's claustrophobia or air pollution
that's really the issue. In which case the tube lines are more prone to
those than the DLR.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

In message , at 23:04:32 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, Bryan Morris remarked:
In message , Bryan Morris
writes
In message , Roland Perry
writes
In message , at 20:41:41 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, remarked:
On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 15:17:03 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:24:18 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, Bryan Morris remarked:

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.

That's the deepest under the surface, but the surface is a hill! Air
pressure on the surface there will be lower as a result, by about 2.5%

I think the deepest below sea level (from memory) is the Jubilee between
Westminster and Waterloo.

Later: Hampstead Station is approx 200m above sea level at the surface,
140m above sea level at the platform.

Not it isn't. The highest point of the heath which is well above the tube
station is 134m. I'm guessing the station entrance is around 80-90m.

That's what one gets for looking things up at what turns out to be an
unreliable source. I still believe that the platforms are 60m below
the surface, which a more reliable source puts at 376ft (ie 115m).

Hampstead is on a steep hill and the station platforms are the deepest
on the London Underground network, at 58.5 metres (192 ft) below
ground level. It has the deepest lift shaft on the Underground at 55
metres (180 ft) which houses high-speed lifts.
Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampstead_tube_station

BTW - I used to live in Highgate and frequently travelled Hampstead
Lane/Heath Street to my office . Hampstead station is not at the top of
the Hill (I might be wrong but it's the Pond by the Heath that's
probably the apex) so the line is further under ground there than at
the station.

The highest point the line passes under is 446ft (136m) the other side
of the road from the aptly named Heath Brow car park; the old Bull and
Bush pub is 391ft (119m).

Note that Google maps is particularly bad at showing the route with it's
"fit a curve to the stations" algorithm ignoring a bend just north of
Hampstead station with the actual line following Heath Road.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In
Hampstead is on a steep hill and the station platforms are the deepest
on the London Underground network, at 58.5 metres (192 ft) below ground
level. It has the deepest lift shaft on the Underground at 55 metres
(180 ft) which houses high-speed lifts.
Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampstead_tube_station

Indeed, but if the earlier poster was having difficulty breathing due to
depth, it could be attributed to air pressure, which is a factor of
sea-level, not depth from the surface. However as the effect is less
than 1% at such depths, perhaps it's claustrophobia or air pollution
that's really the issue. In which case the tube lines are more prone to
those than the DLR.

But I wonder what it is peculiar to the Piccadilly that affects Basil in
that way ?
He says it is the deepness of it but it isn’t really that different from
the other London tube Lines (using tube in the old way to describe the
smaller loading gauge routes).
Perhaps it is the only one he uses , or enters by one of the few remaining
lifts entries which seem to emphasise
a trip towards the underworld.
Basil,have you ever taken a journey on the Glasgow Subway?
If you have did you find that claustrophobic at all with it loading gauge
even smaller than London tubes.


GH

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:48:37 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, Bryan Morris remarked:
In message , Roland Perry
writes
In message , at 20:41:41 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, remarked:
On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 15:17:03 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:24:18 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, Bryan Morris remarked:

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.

That's the deepest under the surface, but the surface is a hill! Air
pressure on the surface there will be lower as a result, by about 2.5%

I think the deepest below sea level (from memory) is the Jubilee between
Westminster and Waterloo.

Later: Hampstead Station is approx 200m above sea level at the surface,
140m above sea level at the platform.

Not it isn't. The highest point of the heath which is well above the tube
station is 134m. I'm guessing the station entrance is around 80-90m.

That's what one gets for looking things up at what turns out to be an
unreliable source. I still believe that the platforms are 60m below
the surface, which a more reliable source puts at 376ft (ie 115m).

Hampstead is on a steep hill and the station platforms are the deepest
on the London Underground network, at 58.5 metres (192 ft) below ground
level. It has the deepest lift shaft on the Underground at 55 metres
(180 ft) which houses high-speed lifts.
Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampstead_tube_station

Indeed, but if the earlier poster was having difficulty breathing due to
depth, it could be attributed to air pressure, which is a factor of
sea-level, not depth from the surface. However as the effect is less
than 1% at such depths, perhaps it's claustrophobia or air pollution
that's really the issue. In which case the tube lines are more prone to
those than the DLR.

Yes, it sounds moreÂ*like claustrophobia than air pressure. But I don't
think the 73TS is any more claustrophobic than any other current Tube
stock, so I don't know why that line should be different to, say, the
Bakerloo line, whose trains have a similar mid 1970s ambience. And, apart
from the twisty section just east of South Ken, the Piccadilly line tunnels
aren't as noisy as, say, the Northern or JLE.

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

On 15/11/2019 14:24, Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , Basil Jet
writes
On 09/11/2019 17:09, wrote:
Well until we see a crossrail timetable there's no way to tell, but
having
commuted all the way to hatton cross and back each day for 9 months
on that
line I would be very surprised if it was the same end to end. It is
utterly
hopeless especially in the rush hour - it literally crawls through
west london
and only once past hammersmith does it reach anything approaching a
reasonable
speed. And then there'd usually be some pointless delay at Acton. I
actually
terminated the contract early because I couldn't stand it any longer,
almost
2 hours each way door to door on a bad day (which was most of them).

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.

I thinks it's the duration spent at deep level which causes my drowning
feeling. It's only if I go all the way from Bounds Green or so to Barons
Court that it happens.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Can - Unlimited Edition

Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
 

On 16 Nov 2019 01:05:17 GMT, Marland
wrote:

Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , Bryan Morris
writes
In message , Roland Perry
writes
In message , at 20:41:41 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, remarked:
On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 15:17:03 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:24:18 on Fri, 15 Nov
2019, Bryan Morris remarked:

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.

That's the deepest under the surface, but the surface is a hill! Air
pressure on the surface there will be lower as a result, by about 2.5%

I think the deepest below sea level (from memory) is the Jubilee between
Westminster and Waterloo.

Later: Hampstead Station is approx 200m above sea level at the surface,
140m above sea level at the platform.

Not it isn't. The highest point of the heath which is well above the tube
station is 134m. I'm guessing the station entrance is around 80-90m.

That's what one gets for looking things up at what turns out to be an
unreliable source. I still believe that the platforms are 60m below
the surface, which a more reliable source puts at 376ft (ie 115m).

Hampstead is on a steep hill and the station platforms are the deepest
on the London Underground network, at 58.5 metres (192 ft) below ground
level. It has the deepest lift shaft on the Underground at 55 metres
(180 ft) which houses high-speed lifts.
Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampstead_tube_station

BTW - I used to live in Highgate and frequently travelled Hampstead
Lane/Heath Street to my office . Hampstead station is not at the top of
the Hill (I might be wrong but it's the Pond by the Heath that's
probably the apex) so the line is further under ground there than at the
station.

Isn’t the deepest bit near the site of the unfinished North End Station now
better known by the unofficial name Bull and Bush?

Apparently, the deepest below sea level are the Jubilee Line platforms
at Waterloo station, 26m down. See this display I photographed at an
exhibition at the LMA:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/49074038572/in/dateposted-friend/lightbox/

It's a small, but surprisingly interesting exhibition, which runs for
just under another three weeks, well worth a visit if you're in the
area:
https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/london-metropolitan-archives/news-events/Pages/under-ground-london.aspx

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Basil Jet wrote:
On 15/11/2019 14:24, Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , Basil Jet
writes
On 09/11/2019 17:09, wrote:
Well until we see a crossrail timetable there's no way to tell, but
having
commuted all the way to hatton cross and back each day for 9 months
on that
line I would be very surprised if it was the same end to end. It is
utterly
hopeless especially in the rush hour - it literally crawls through
west london
and only once past hammersmith does it reach anything approaching a
reasonable
speed. And then there'd usually be some pointless delay at Acton. I
actually
terminated the contract early because I couldn't stand it any longer,
almost
2 hours each way door to door on a bad day (which was most of them).

I find the Picc unbearably deep, so by the time I've reached Barons
Court (westbound) I'm standing by the door gasping for fresh air. No
other tunnel affects me like that, not even the Chunnel.

I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.

I thinks it's the duration spent at deep level which causes my drowning
feeling. It's only if I go all the way from Bounds Green or so to Barons
Court that it happens.


The Northern and Victorua line tunnels are longer, of course, but perhaps
you don't travel through them?

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In article , Roland Perry
writes
I thought the Northern Line Edgware Branch was deepest. I know when I
used to travel via Hampstead/Golders Green my ears used to pop.

That's the deepest under the surface, but the surface is a hill! Air
pressure on the surface there will be lower as a result, by about 2.5%

I think the deepest below sea level (from memory) is the Jubilee between
Westminster and Waterloo.

Based on a 2015 FOI request, the following platforms are at least 15
metres below sea level (numbers are metres above LU datum, which is
exactly 100 metres below the OS datum at Newlyn):

74.0 Waterloo (Jubilee)
74.6 Westminster (westbound Jubilee)
76.8 London Bridge (Jubilee)
79.5 Southwark
80.2 Elephant & Castle (Bakerloo)
80.4 London Bridge (Northern)
81.9 Charing Cross (Jubilee)
81.9 Holborn (westbound Piccadilly)
82.8 Waterloo (Northern)
83.5 South Kensington (westbound Piccadilly)
83.9 Pimlico
84.0 Westminster (eastbound Jubilee)
84.4 Canary Wharf (Jubilee)
84.4 Kennington (City branch)
84.4 Bank (Northern)
84.6 Kennington (Charing X branch)
84.6 Elephant & Castle (northbound Northern)
84.7 Elephant & Castle (southbound Northern)

--
Clive D.W. Feather

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In message , at 14:48:05 on
Sat, 16 Nov 2019, Recliner remarked:

Isn’t the deepest bit near the site of the unfinished North End Station now
better known by the unofficial name Bull and Bush?

Apparently, the deepest below sea level are the Jubilee Line platforms
at Waterloo station, 26m down.

There's an echo in here.
--
Roland Perry

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On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 14:48:05 +0000
Recliner wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...-friend/lightb
ox/

I wonder why the water tunnels are so deep. You'd think when pumping water
around you'd want them to be as shallow as possible since water is heavy stuff
and requires huge amounts of energy to pump back uphill.

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On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 16:19:01 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
Based on a 2015 FOI request, the following platforms are at least 15
metres below sea level (numbers are metres above LU datum, which is
exactly 100 metres below the OS datum at Newlyn):

*Above* the LU datum? Why did they choose something so deep as a base point?

74.0 Waterloo (Jubilee)
84.4 Bank (Northern)

Looks like the actual deepest railway platform in London is a toss up between
jubilee waterloo and Bank DLR which is way beneath the northern line platforms.
Anyone know how deep the DLR is?

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On 17/11/2019 09:08, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 16:19:01 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
Based on a 2015 FOI request, the following platforms are at least 15
metres below sea level (numbers are metres above LU datum, which is
exactly 100 metres below the OS datum at Newlyn):

*Above* the LU datum? Why did they choose something so deep as a base point?

I don't know for a fact when and why that was done for the tube but
shifting the zero on a scale was a recognised way of reducing the scope
for errors such as a typo that omits a "-" or a reader missing a "-";
and -13.2 minus -17.4 resulting in -4.2. Especially before VisiCalc,
SuperCalc etc.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

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On 17/11/2019 09:04, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 14:48:05 +0000
Recliner wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...-friend/lightb
ox/

I wonder why the water tunnels are so deep. You'd think when pumping water
around you'd want them to be as shallow as possible since water is heavy stuff
and requires huge amounts of energy to pump back uphill.


The problem with that diagram is that it shows depth below ground level,
not sea level (or river level in this case), so it gives a distorted
view of the actual depths.

One possible reason for a deep water tunnel is to give it a straight run
so you don't have to keep pumping water uphill at intermediate points on
the route.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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Graeme Wall wrote:
On 17/11/2019 09:04, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 14:48:05 +0000
Recliner wrote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...-friend/lightb
ox/

I wonder why the water tunnels are so deep. You'd think when pumping water
around you'd want them to be as shallow as possible since water is heavy stuff
and requires huge amounts of energy to pump back uphill.


The problem with that diagram is that it shows depth below ground level,
not sea level (or river level in this case), so it gives a distorted
view of the actual depths.

One possible reason for a deep water tunnel is to give it a straight run
so you don't have to keep pumping water uphill at intermediate points on
the route.


The tideway tunnel needs to be below both existing sewage/storm water
tunnels and the under-river rail tunnels, such as the deep Jubilee tunnels
near Waterloo. With current tunneling techniques, they don't need to stay
in the clay layer, and nor do they have to build watertight underground
stations, so they might as well go deep.

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On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 09:40:54 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 17/11/2019 09:04, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 14:48:05 +0000
Recliner wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...-friend/lightb

ox/

I wonder why the water tunnels are so deep. You'd think when pumping water
around you'd want them to be as shallow as possible since water is heavy
stuff
and requires huge amounts of energy to pump back uphill.


The problem with that diagram is that it shows depth below ground level,
not sea level (or river level in this case), so it gives a distorted
view of the actual depths.

One possible reason for a deep water tunnel is to give it a straight run
so you don't have to keep pumping water uphill at intermediate points on
the route.

Makes sense. Even so, I dread to think how much electricity the pumping must
require. Probably a small power stations worth.

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On 17/11/2019 10:07, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 09:40:54 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 17/11/2019 09:04, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 14:48:05 +0000
Recliner wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...-friend/lightb

ox/

I wonder why the water tunnels are so deep. You'd think when pumping water
around you'd want them to be as shallow as possible since water is heavy
stuff
and requires huge amounts of energy to pump back uphill.


The problem with that diagram is that it shows depth below ground level,
not sea level (or river level in this case), so it gives a distorted
view of the actual depths.

One possible reason for a deep water tunnel is to give it a straight run
so you don't have to keep pumping water uphill at intermediate points on
the route.

Makes sense. Even so, I dread to think how much electricity the pumping must
require. Probably a small power stations worth.


The Thames Tideway's annual consumption was reckoned to be about 9,000
MWh. A handful of wind turbines cover that (leaving aide the usual
intermittency issue).


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

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In message , at 09:08:39 on Sun, 17 Nov
2019, remarked:

74.0 Waterloo (Jubilee)
84.4 Bank (Northern)

Looks like the actual deepest railway platform in London is a toss up between
jubilee waterloo and Bank DLR which is way beneath the northern line platforms.
Anyone know how deep the DLR is?

41.4m below street level apparently. Street level is 13m, so around
28-29m below sea level. Thus 2-3m deeper than Jubilee at Waterloo.

And hence about 12m below the northern at Bank (which seems reasonable).

--
Roland Perry

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On 17/11/2019 10:07, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 09:40:54 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 17/11/2019 09:04, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 14:48:05 +0000
Recliner wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...-friend/lightb

ox/

I wonder why the water tunnels are so deep. You'd think when pumping water
around you'd want them to be as shallow as possible since water is heavy
stuff
and requires huge amounts of energy to pump back uphill.


The problem with that diagram is that it shows depth below ground level,
not sea level (or river level in this case), so it gives a distorted
view of the actual depths.

One possible reason for a deep water tunnel is to give it a straight run
so you don't have to keep pumping water uphill at intermediate points on
the route.

Makes sense. Even so, I dread to think how much electricity the pumping must
require. Probably a small power stations worth.


Probably no more than eg the Severn Tunnel takes. Guildford's water
supply is taken from the River Wey and pumped up to a reservoir on the
Downs above the town. A single water turbine housed in the old mill
provided enough power to carry that out. That's a very small power station!

Confused my conveyancing solicitor when we moved here, his search came
up with a power station within 5 km of our house. Took me a while to
work out what it was.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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On 16/11/2019 16:06, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:

I thinks it's the duration spent at deep level which causes my drowning
feeling. It's only if I go all the way from Bounds Green or so to Barons
Court that it happens.


The Northern and Victorua line tunnels are longer, of course, but perhaps
you don't travel through them?


Admittedly I might never have travelled so far on them in one go.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
The Box - 1984 - Great Moments In Big Slam

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Robin wrote:
On 17/11/2019 10:07, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 09:40:54 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 17/11/2019 09:04, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 14:48:05 +0000
Recliner wrote:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...-friend/lightb

ox/

I wonder why the water tunnels are so deep. You'd think when pumping water
around you'd want them to be as shallow as possible since water is heavy
stuff
and requires huge amounts of energy to pump back uphill.


The problem with that diagram is that it shows depth below ground level,
not sea level (or river level in this case), so it gives a distorted
view of the actual depths.

One possible reason for a deep water tunnel is to give it a straight run
so you don't have to keep pumping water uphill at intermediate points on
the route.

Makes sense. Even so, I dread to think how much electricity the pumping must
require. Probably a small power stations worth.


The Thames Tideway's annual consumption was reckoned to be about 9,000
MWh. A handful of wind turbines cover that (leaving aide the usual
intermittency issue).

I assume the Thames Tideway pumping needs are also intermittent, as it's
essentially an overflow storm drain to intercept polluted water and sewage
that would otherwise flow into the river. For much of the time, it'll
presumably be empty, but will fill up after heavy rain, and need pumping
out?

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Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:08:39 on Sun, 17 Nov
2019, remarked:

74.0 Waterloo (Jubilee)
84.4 Bank (Northern)

Looks like the actual deepest railway platform in London is a toss up between
jubilee waterloo and Bank DLR which is way beneath the northern line platforms.
Anyone know how deep the DLR is?

41.4m below street level apparently. Street level is 13m, so around
28-29m below sea level. Thus 2-3m deeper than Jubilee at Waterloo.

And hence about 12m below the northern at Bank (which seems reasonable).


Which, of course, is why I asked about the DLR at Bank upthread:

Roland Perry wrote:
Recliner remarked:

What about the DLR at Bank?

Gets tangled up in whether it's a "tube" service or not.

But maybe people can comment on whether it's also "unbearably deep",
nevertheless.

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On 16/11/2019 08:02, Marland wrote:

But I wonder what it is peculiar to the Piccadilly that affects Basil in
that way ?
He says it is the deepness of it but it isn’t really that different from
the other London tube Lines (using tube in the old way to describe the
smaller loading gauge routes).
Perhaps it is the only one he uses , or enters by one of the few remaining
lifts entries which seem to emphasise
a trip towards the underworld.

Lift stations were not involved.

Basil,have you ever taken a journey on the Glasgow Subway?
If you have did you find that claustrophobic at all with it loading gauge
even smaller than London tubes.

I've been on a Subway platform, but not on a Subway train.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
The Box - 1984 - Great Moments In Big Slam

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Basil Jet wrote:
On 16/11/2019 16:06, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:

I thinks it's the duration spent at deep level which causes my drowning
feeling. It's only if I go all the way from Bounds Green or so to Barons
Court that it happens.


The Northern and Victorua line tunnels are longer, of course, but perhaps
you don't travel through them?


Admittedly I might never have travelled so far on them in one go.


The seats on those lines are much less comfortable than on the Piccadilly
line, so a very long journey would be really uncomfortable.

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In message , at 11:23:49 on Sun, 17 Nov
2019, Basil Jet remarked:

Basil,have you ever taken a journey on the Glasgow Subway?
If you have did you find that claustrophobic at all with it loading gauge
even smaller than London tubes.

I've been on a Subway platform, but not on a Subway train.

I've been in a Subway sandwich shop, does that count?
--
Roland Perry

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In message , at 11:23:13 on Sun, 17 Nov
2019, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:08:39 on Sun, 17 Nov
2019, remarked:

74.0 Waterloo (Jubilee)
84.4 Bank (Northern)

Looks like the actual deepest railway platform in London is a toss
up between
jubilee waterloo and Bank DLR which is way beneath the northern line
platforms.
Anyone know how deep the DLR is?

41.4m below street level apparently. Street level is 13m, so around
28-29m below sea level. Thus 2-3m deeper than Jubilee at Waterloo.

And hence about 12m below the northern at Bank (which seems reasonable).

Which, of course, is why I asked about the DLR at Bank upthread:

Yes, I noticed.

Roland Perry wrote:
Recliner remarked:

What about the DLR at Bank?

No-one bothered to answer.

Gets tangled up in whether it's a "tube" service or not.

But maybe people can comment on whether it's also "unbearably deep",
nevertheless.

No-one bothered to answer.
--
Roland Perry