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Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
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Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
tim... wrote:
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a9165661.html Interesting, I wondered how HEx would respond. But it sounds like the cheapest tickets will only be available a long way in advance. |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
On 23/10/2019 09:14, tim... wrote:
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a9165661.html That was inevitable once they lost their monopoly. -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
Op 23-10-2019 om 10:29 schreef Recliner:
tim... wrote: https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/heathrow-express-ticket-cheap-train-fares-airport-crossrail-travel-a9165661.html Interesting, I wondered how HEx would respond. But it sounds like the cheapest tickets will only be available a long way in advance. I do not understand anything of the prices for this train. 25 pounds 22 pounds 12,50 pounds 5,50 pounds 16,50 pounds 7,50 pounds 6 pounds 5,10 pounds 3,10 pounds "cash fare"? "peak contactless fare"? "off-peak fare"? (I think I understand this, but do not know the off-peak times) How do you explains this to foreigners arriving at Heathrow? |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
Rink wrote:
Op 23-10-2019 om 10:29 schreef Recliner: tim... wrote: https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/heathrow-express-ticket-cheap-train-fares-airport-crossrail-travel-a9165661.html Interesting, I wondered how HEx would respond. But it sounds like the cheapest tickets will only be available a long way in advance. I do not understand anything of the prices for this train. 25 pounds 22 pounds 12,50 pounds 5,50 pounds 16,50 pounds 7,50 pounds 6 pounds 5,10 pounds 3,10 pounds "cash fare"? "peak contactless fare"? "off-peak fare"? (I think I understand this, but do not know the off-peak times) How do you explains this to foreigners arriving at Heathrow? I don't suppose the HEx touts in Arrivals do much explaining: they just flog the most expensive tickets they can. The cheaper fares are to attract locals who would otherwise use Crossrail. |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
On 02/11/2019 21:49, Rink wrote:
Op 23-10-2019 om 10:29 schreef Recliner: tim... wrote: https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/heathrow-express-ticket-cheap-train-fares-airport-crossrail-travel-a9165661.html Interesting, I wondered how HEx would respond. But it sounds like the cheapest tickets will only be available a long way in advance. I do not understand anything of the prices for this train. 25 pounds 22 pounds 12,50 pounds 5,50 pounds 16,50 pounds 7,50 pounds 6 pounds 5,10 pounds 3,10 pounds "cash fare"? "peak contactless fare"? "off-peak fare"? (I think I understand this, but do not know the off-peak times) How do you explains this to foreigners arriving at Heathrow? Just charge them the most expensive fare, as they won't know otherwise (if they've researched it in advance, they'd know). It's a privately owned airport service, competing with taxis not with other forms of scheduled public transport. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 02/11/2019 21:49, Rink wrote: Op 23-10-2019 om 10:29 schreef Recliner: tim... wrote: https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/heathrow-express-ticket-cheap-train-fares-airport-crossrail-travel-a9165661.html Interesting, I wondered how HEx would respond. But it sounds like the cheapest tickets will only be available a long way in advance. I do not understand anything of the prices for this train. 25 pounds 22 pounds 12,50 pounds 5,50 pounds 16,50 pounds 7,50 pounds 6 pounds 5,10 pounds 3,10 pounds "cash fare"? "peak contactless fare"? "off-peak fare"? (I think I understand this, but do not know the off-peak times) How do you explains this to foreigners arriving at Heathrow? Just charge them the most expensive fare, as they won't know otherwise (if they've researched it in advance, they'd know). It's a privately owned airport service, competing with taxis not with other forms of scheduled public transport. That's no longer the case when Crossrail is fully open. Any local, and most visitors, will be better off using Crossrail: quicker, fewer changes, hgher frequency, cheaper. Only people travelling from Paddington itself to T5 might have a slightly faster journey using HEx; everyone else will have a more convenient journey on Crossrail. |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
In message , at 06:28:31 on Sun, 3 Nov 2019,
Recliner remarked: Arthur Figgis wrote: On 02/11/2019 21:49, Rink wrote: Op 23-10-2019 om 10:29 schreef Recliner: tim... wrote: https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...heathrow-expre ss-ticket-cheap-train-fares-airport-crossrail-travel-a9165661.html Interesting, I wondered how HEx would respond. But it sounds like the cheapest tickets will only be available a long way in advance. I do not understand anything of the prices for this train. 25 pounds 22 pounds 12,50 pounds 5,50 pounds 16,50 pounds 7,50 pounds 6 pounds 5,10 pounds 3,10 pounds "cash fare"? "peak contactless fare"? "off-peak fare"? (I think I understand this, but do not know the off-peak times) How do you explains this to foreigners arriving at Heathrow? Just charge them the most expensive fare, as they won't know otherwise (if they've researched it in advance, they'd know). It's a privately owned airport service, competing with taxis not with other forms of scheduled public transport. That's no longer the case when Crossrail is fully open. Any local, and most visitors, will be better off using Crossrail: quicker, fewer changes, hgher frequency, cheaper. Only people travelling from Paddington itself to T5 might have a slightly faster journey using HEx; everyone else will have a more convenient journey on Crossrail. The market is more segmented than you suggest. Visitors will be conditioned to seek out the "Airport Express" service, which they know will shield them from the complexities of the local commuter services. (Even though sometimes, like Stansted Express, the operational difference is wafer thin) Clearly, many of the people using HEx today aren't heading for hotels or business meetings (or even onward rail transport) in the Paddington area, so they'll continue to use Paddington as the railhead, and let's face it the facilities for travellers there are far better than Tottenham Court Crossrail. Similarly, on the way back getting to Paddington is "safety" as it's in effect an airport annex. If using Crossrail, people won't feel completely comfortable until they've got to the Terminal. Bearing in mind, always, that their audience is people who would otherwise have got a taxi from the airport, not those adventurous enough to take the tube or Heathrow Connect. -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 06:28:31 on Sun, 3 Nov 2019, Recliner remarked: Arthur Figgis wrote: On 02/11/2019 21:49, Rink wrote: Op 23-10-2019 om 10:29 schreef Recliner: tim... wrote: https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...heathrow-expre ss-ticket-cheap-train-fares-airport-crossrail-travel-a9165661.html Interesting, I wondered how HEx would respond. But it sounds like the cheapest tickets will only be available a long way in advance. I do not understand anything of the prices for this train. 25 pounds 22 pounds 12,50 pounds 5,50 pounds 16,50 pounds 7,50 pounds 6 pounds 5,10 pounds 3,10 pounds "cash fare"? "peak contactless fare"? "off-peak fare"? (I think I understand this, but do not know the off-peak times) How do you explains this to foreigners arriving at Heathrow? Just charge them the most expensive fare, as they won't know otherwise (if they've researched it in advance, they'd know). It's a privately owned airport service, competing with taxis not with other forms of scheduled public transport. That's no longer the case when Crossrail is fully open. Any local, and most visitors, will be better off using Crossrail: quicker, fewer changes, hgher frequency, cheaper. Only people travelling from Paddington itself to T5 might have a slightly faster journey using HEx; everyone else will have a more convenient journey on Crossrail. The market is more segmented than you suggest. Visitors will be conditioned to seek out the "Airport Express" service, which they know will shield them from the complexities of the local commuter services. (Even though sometimes, like Stansted Express, the operational difference is wafer thin) Clearly, many of the people using HEx today aren't heading for hotels or business meetings (or even onward rail transport) in the Paddington area, so they'll continue to use Paddington as the railhead, and let's face it the facilities for travellers there are far better than Tottenham Court Crossrail. Similarly, on the way back getting to Paddington is "safety" as it's in effect an airport annex. If using Crossrail, people won't feel completely comfortable until they've got to the Terminal. Bearing in mind, always, that their audience is people who would otherwise have got a taxi from the airport, not those adventurous enough to take the tube or Heathrow Connect. The fact that they're suddenly providing all these new discounted options proves that HEx lacks your deep insights into airport express services. |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
In message , at 17:53:50 on Sun, 3 Nov 2019,
Recliner remarked: https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...heathrow-expre ss-ticket-cheap-train-fares-airport-crossrail-travel-a9165661.html Interesting, I wondered how HEx would respond. But it sounds like the cheapest tickets will only be available a long way in advance. I do not understand anything of the prices for this train. 25 pounds 22 pounds 12,50 pounds 5,50 pounds 16,50 pounds 7,50 pounds 6 pounds 5,10 pounds 3,10 pounds "cash fare"? "peak contactless fare"? "off-peak fare"? (I think I understand this, but do not know the off-peak times) How do you explains this to foreigners arriving at Heathrow? Just charge them the most expensive fare, as they won't know otherwise (if they've researched it in advance, they'd know). It's a privately owned airport service, competing with taxis not with other forms of scheduled public transport. That's no longer the case when Crossrail is fully open. Any local, and most visitors, will be better off using Crossrail: quicker, fewer changes, hgher frequency, cheaper. Only people travelling from Paddington itself to T5 might have a slightly faster journey using HEx; everyone else will have a more convenient journey on Crossrail. The market is more segmented than you suggest. Visitors will be conditioned to seek out the "Airport Express" service, which they know will shield them from the complexities of the local commuter services. (Even though sometimes, like Stansted Express, the operational difference is wafer thin) Clearly, many of the people using HEx today aren't heading for hotels or business meetings (or even onward rail transport) in the Paddington area, so they'll continue to use Paddington as the railhead, and let's face it the facilities for travellers there are far better than Tottenham Court Crossrail. Similarly, on the way back getting to Paddington is "safety" as it's in effect an airport annex. If using Crossrail, people won't feel completely comfortable until they've got to the Terminal. Bearing in mind, always, that their audience is people who would otherwise have got a taxi from the airport, not those adventurous enough to take the tube or Heathrow Connect. The fact that they're suddenly providing all these new discounted options proves that HEx lacks your deep insights into airport express services. On the contrary, news of these price cuts are unlikely to make their way through to their main target market, who will continue to pay the full price. Meanwhile, in the UK some gullible people might be persuaded that HEx isn't as expensive (as a commuter service, which isn't its target market) after all. -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:53:50 on Sun, 3 Nov 2019, Recliner remarked: https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...heathrow-expre ss-ticket-cheap-train-fares-airport-crossrail-travel-a9165661.html Interesting, I wondered how HEx would respond. But it sounds like the cheapest tickets will only be available a long way in advance. I do not understand anything of the prices for this train. 25 pounds 22 pounds 12,50 pounds 5,50 pounds 16,50 pounds 7,50 pounds 6 pounds 5,10 pounds 3,10 pounds "cash fare"? "peak contactless fare"? "off-peak fare"? (I think I understand this, but do not know the off-peak times) How do you explains this to foreigners arriving at Heathrow? Just charge them the most expensive fare, as they won't know otherwise (if they've researched it in advance, they'd know). It's a privately owned airport service, competing with taxis not with other forms of scheduled public transport. That's no longer the case when Crossrail is fully open. Any local, and most visitors, will be better off using Crossrail: quicker, fewer changes, hgher frequency, cheaper. Only people travelling from Paddington itself to T5 might have a slightly faster journey using HEx; everyone else will have a more convenient journey on Crossrail. The market is more segmented than you suggest. Visitors will be conditioned to seek out the "Airport Express" service, which they know will shield them from the complexities of the local commuter services. (Even though sometimes, like Stansted Express, the operational difference is wafer thin) Clearly, many of the people using HEx today aren't heading for hotels or business meetings (or even onward rail transport) in the Paddington area, so they'll continue to use Paddington as the railhead, and let's face it the facilities for travellers there are far better than Tottenham Court Crossrail. Similarly, on the way back getting to Paddington is "safety" as it's in effect an airport annex. If using Crossrail, people won't feel completely comfortable until they've got to the Terminal. Bearing in mind, always, that their audience is people who would otherwise have got a taxi from the airport, not those adventurous enough to take the tube or Heathrow Connect. The fact that they're suddenly providing all these new discounted options proves that HEx lacks your deep insights into airport express services. On the contrary, news of these price cuts are unlikely to make their way through to their main target market, who will continue to pay the full price. Meanwhile, in the UK some gullible people might be persuaded that HEx isn't as expensive (as a commuter service, which isn't its target market) after all. It's not just tourists and Heathrow workers who have to get to the airport: plenty of British travellers and savvy foreign travellers use the airport too. Any of them who have been HEx users will switch to Crossrail when it's fully open, and not just because it's cheaper. That won't leave enough premium payers on HEx to keep it viable. |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
In article ,
Roland Perry wrote: The fact that they're suddenly providing all these new discounted options proves that HEx lacks your deep insights into airport express services. On the contrary, news of these price cuts are unlikely to make their way through to their main target market, ... Despite what that article said, HeX has been offering restricted discount tickets for years. In 2015 I paid £16.10 for a ticket and last year £14.30. I believe there were some exotic under £10 tix last year if you knew 90 days ahead that you'd be travelling on a Sunday. Seems to me that a sensible person books his train tix when he books his flights, which for vacations and conferences can often be months ahead. That's what I do and is how I got those (sort of) low fares. It also seems to me that when Crossrail is running through trains, the HeX time advantage will be a lost for many places Crossrail goes beyond Paddington. It's not just the fares. Perhaps we could have volunteer anti-touts saying "don't buy those silly express tickets, just tap your credit card and take the cheap train." -- Regards, John Levine, , Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:16:22 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: On the contrary, news of these price cuts are unlikely to make their way through to their main target market, who will continue to pay the full price. Meanwhile, in the UK some gullible people might be persuaded that HEx isn't as expensive (as a commuter service, which isn't its target market) after all. It's not just tourists and Heathrow workers who have to get to the airport: plenty of British travellers and savvy foreign travellers use the airport too. Any of them who have been HEx users will switch to Crossrail when it's fully open, and not just because it's cheaper. That won't leave enough premium payers on HEx to keep it viable. I suspect even the owners of HEx know it'll be dead in the water once crossrail opens and are probably just grateful for every extra month crossrail is delayed. |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
wrote:
On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:16:22 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: On the contrary, news of these price cuts are unlikely to make their way through to their main target market, who will continue to pay the full price. Meanwhile, in the UK some gullible people might be persuaded that HEx isn't as expensive (as a commuter service, which isn't its target market) after all. It's not just tourists and Heathrow workers who have to get to the airport: plenty of British travellers and savvy foreign travellers use the airport too. Any of them who have been HEx users will switch to Crossrail when it's fully open, and not just because it's cheaper. That won't leave enough premium payers on HEx to keep it viable. I suspect even the owners of HEx know it'll be dead in the water once crossrail opens and are probably just grateful for every extra month crossrail is delayed. Yes, the two-year Crossrail delay has been a real bonus for HAL. |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
In message , at 22:52:34 on Sun, 3 Nov 2019,
John Levine remarked: In article , Roland Perry wrote: The fact that they're suddenly providing all these new discounted options proves that HEx lacks your deep insights into airport express services. On the contrary, news of these price cuts are unlikely to make their way through to their main target market, ... Despite what that article said, HeX has been offering restricted discount tickets for years. In 2015 I paid £16.10 for a ticket and last year £14.30. I believe there were some exotic under £10 tix last year if you knew 90 days ahead that you'd be travelling on a Sunday. Seems to me that a sensible person books his train tix when he books his flights, which for vacations and conferences can often be months ahead. That's what I do and is how I got those (sort of) low fares. I don't think you are a very typical traveller. Most are very unadventurous when it comes to foreign countries, and hence the race for taxis (and HEx's mission to replace taxis). I wouldn't expect to be able to understand how to pick up pre-booked train tickets at a random overseas airport, and there's a limit to how much we can say "trust us, it's easy in the UK". As a result, and even as a more adventurous traveller (colleagues were amazed I dared get a bus from Geneva to the airport, and didn't even consider rail) I think I've only once got a train on first arrival at a suitably equipped overseas airport. That was Brisbane, which has the advantage of speaking (approx) English, and I was going somewhere an hour away which happened to be on the same line, rather than just the city centre. Of course, having worked things out, I have a few times taken a train *back* to the airport, or used one on a second or subsequent visit. I was a bit put off by the difficulty of collecting a pre-bought TGV ticket in Paris, though. It also seems to me that when Crossrail is running through trains, the HeX time advantage will be a lost for many places Crossrail goes beyond Paddington. It's not just the fares. How many of the Crossrail stations will have taxi ranks? I presume they'll at least all have lifts to avoid having to haul baggage up escalators. Perhaps we could have volunteer anti-touts saying "don't buy those silly express tickets, just tap your credit card and take the cheap train." Or if it's a family holiday "find 4 credit cards between you, to tap". And how widespread is contactless outside the UK? The USA is catching up rapidly, but is probably still in single figure percentages. -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
In message , at 22:16:22 on Sun, 3 Nov 2019,
Recliner remarked: It's not just tourists and Heathrow workers who have to get to the airport: plenty of British travellers and savvy foreign travellers use the airport too. Any of them who have been HEx users will switch to Crossrail when it's fully open, and not just because it's cheaper. That won't leave enough premium payers on HEx to keep it viable. It'll leave all the first-time visitors, which will probably be the majority. Plus all the less confident ones who inherently distrust foreign commuter services rather than airport expresses. -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 09:38:02 +0000
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 22:16:22 on Sun, 3 Nov 2019, Recliner remarked: It's not just tourists and Heathrow workers who have to get to the airport: plenty of British travellers and savvy foreign travellers use the airport too. Any of them who have been HEx users will switch to Crossrail when it's fully open, and not just because it's cheaper. That won't leave enough premium payers on HEx to keep it viable. It'll leave all the first-time visitors, which will probably be the Why would it? I'm sure most of them can read a metro map and will immediately spot the lines that go to central london and won't much care for the one that goes to a bears home. majority. Plus all the less confident ones who inherently distrust foreign commuter services rather than airport expresses. Can't be many of them. |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
|
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
In article ,
Roland Perry wrote: majority. Plus all the less confident ones who inherently distrust foreign commuter services rather than airport expresses. Can't be many of them. I think it's a majority. Local commuter services have a poor reputation, the New York subways being the poster boy. The NY subway doesn't go to LGA and only goes to JFK airport with a long slow trip out to Queens with a connection to the Airtrain so I'm not too surprised. The Long Island Railroad also goes to that Airtrain much faster and lots of people take it. The NJ Transit train goes to Newark airport via another airtrain and it's also quite popular. Elsewhere in North America, the subway or local commuter train goes to the airports in Toronto, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington DC (National), Atlanta, Chicago (both airports), Dallas, St Louis, San Francisco, Portland OR, Seattle, Vancouver, and probably other places I haven't been to. In each case there's been plenty of people on the train with me with suitcases. -- Regards, John Levine, , Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
In article ,
Roland Perry wrote: I don't think you are a very typical traveller. Most are very unadventurous when it comes to foreign countries, and hence the race for taxis (and HEx's mission to replace taxis). Depends who the travellers are. I'm currently at an ICANN meeting (I know you know who they are) whose travel department's phobia of public transport that is not an airplane is just comic. But I don't think it's universal. As a result, and even as a more adventurous traveller (colleagues were amazed I dared get a bus from Geneva to the airport, and didn't even consider rail) I think I've only once got a train on first arrival at a suitably equipped overseas airport. Huh, I do it all the time. I can think of Frankfurt, Paris CDG, Munich, Barcelona, Narita, Haneda, Seoul (now permanently bustituted), Hong Kong, and Singapore. And Gatwick and Prestwick, since I live in the US. I was a bit put off by the difficulty of collecting a pre-bought TGV ticket in Paris, though. Gee, it's easy to put your SNCF ticket on your smartphone. (Yes, I know.) It also seems to me that when Crossrail is running through trains, the HeX time advantage will be a lost for many places Crossrail goes beyond Paddington. It's not just the fares. How many of the Crossrail stations will have taxi ranks? I dunno. I was thinking that a lot of them will be within walking distance of where one wants to go. And how widespread is contactless outside the UK? The USA is catching up rapidly, but is probably still in single figure percentages. In the US and Canada I see lots of contactless cards, now that it's a standard feature of new point-of-sale terminals. -- Regards, John Levine, , Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
John Levine wrote:
In article , Roland Perry wrote: majority. Plus all the less confident ones who inherently distrust foreign commuter services rather than airport expresses. Can't be many of them. I think it's a majority. Local commuter services have a poor reputation, the New York subways being the poster boy. The NY subway doesn't go to LGA and only goes to JFK airport with a long slow trip out to Queens with a connection to the Airtrain so I'm not too surprised. The Long Island Railroad also goes to that Airtrain much faster and lots of people take it. The NJ Transit train goes to Newark airport via another airtrain and it's also quite popular. Elsewhere in North America, the subway or local commuter train goes to the airports in Toronto, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington DC (National), Atlanta, Chicago (both airports), Dallas, St Louis, San Francisco, Portland OR, Seattle, Vancouver, and probably other places I haven't been to. In each case there's been plenty of people on the train with me with suitcases. And the same is true in London of course. The Tube runs a much more frequent (12 tph vs 4 tph), but slower stopping service to Heathrow, and the trains are packed with suitcases and travellers (many of them foreign). It carries significantly more pax than HEx and TfL Rail combined. "The Piccadilly Line accounts for the bulk of the rail and tube journeys to Heathrow (42 per cent of all air passenger journeys to the airport by public transport and 16 per cent of all air passenger journeys to the airport by all modes)." https://bettertransport.org.uk/sites/default/files/research-files/surface-access-final.pdf |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
In message , at 22:54:23 on Wed, 6 Nov 2019,
John Levine remarked: In article , Roland Perry wrote: I don't think you are a very typical traveller. Most are very unadventurous when it comes to foreign countries, and hence the race for taxis (and HEx's mission to replace taxis). Depends who the travellers are. I'm currently at an ICANN meeting (I know you know who they are) I'm vaguely following the proceedings from Montreal on social media. whose travel department's phobia of public transport I've been to about a dozen, even by train for Paris, Brussels and London (although the latter is hardly surprising as there are no flights from Cambridge to London). But never had any involvement from their travel department. Because it was my third or fourth trip to the City, I used public transport to get to get from the airport to their meeting in Prague. I know the RIR policy would be "you must be mad - we'll order you a limo". that is not an airplane is just comic. But I don't think it's universal. The RIRs are almost as bad! As a result, and even as a more adventurous traveller (colleagues were amazed I dared get a bus from Geneva to the airport, and didn't even consider rail) I think I've only once got a train on first arrival at a suitably equipped overseas airport. Huh, I do it all the time. Every *first* time you visit these places? I can think of Frankfurt, Paris CDG, Munich, Barcelona, Narita, Haneda, Seoul (now permanently bustituted), Hong Kong, and Singapore. And Gatwick and Prestwick, since I live in the US. You are much more travelled than average. And quite likely visit them more than once, so you have a chance to come to grips with the local peculiarities. For example, I've been to Seoul twice now, and the second time I took an express coach back to the airport. The railway line stopped short. I was a bit put off by the difficulty of collecting a pre-bought TGV ticket in Paris, though. Gee, it's easy to put your SNCF ticket on your smartphone. (Yes, I know.) My experience with using foreign transport apps (and I *have* tried) is that between them either not apparently working at all, and the steep learning curve, if you are visiting for the first time it's easier to just buy a paper ticket when you get there. The HEx app scores an impressive 1.8 stars (almost all the scores are 1 - "terrible"). It also seems to me that when Crossrail is running through trains, the HeX time advantage will be a lost for many places Crossrail goes beyond Paddington. It's not just the fares. How many of the Crossrail stations will have taxi ranks? I dunno. I was thinking that a lot of them will be within walking distance of where one wants to go. The kind of airline passenger who would normally have got a taxi door-to-door previously, but decides to give HEx a try instead, isn't likely to be wanting to be wandering round London on foot in all weathers with with their baggage trying to find heir hotel. And how widespread is contactless outside the UK? The USA is catching up rapidly, but is probably still in single figure percentages. In the US and Canada I see lots of contactless cards, now that it's a standard feature of new point-of-sale terminals. There's a lot more issued so far in Canada than USA, apparently. -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
In message , at 22:43:10 on Wed, 6 Nov 2019,
John Levine remarked: In article , Roland Perry wrote: majority. Plus all the less confident ones who inherently distrust foreign commuter services rather than airport expresses. Can't be many of them. I think it's a majority. Local commuter services have a poor reputation, the New York subways being the poster boy. The NY subway doesn't go to LGA and only goes to JFK airport with a long slow trip out to Queens with a connection to the Airtrain so I'm not too surprised. What I mean is that city subways get tarred with that brush, irrespective of whether or not the NY on goes anywhere near an airport. The Long Island Railroad also goes to that Airtrain much faster and lots of people take it. The NJ Transit train goes to Newark airport via another airtrain and it's also quite popular. How many of those people are visitors on their first trip to NY? Elsewhere in North America, the subway or local commuter train goes to the airports in Toronto, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington DC (National), Atlanta, Chicago (both airports), Dallas, St Louis, San Francisco, Portland OR, Seattle, Vancouver, and probably other places I haven't been to. In each case there's been plenty of people on the train with me with suitcases. First time visitors to the city, who would normally use a taxi? Atlanta's another metro system where people have said I was crazy to mix it with the locals. It's a very deep seated prejudice. -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
In message , at 23:07:30 on Wed, 6 Nov 2019,
Recliner remarked: John Levine wrote: In article , Roland Perry wrote: majority. Plus all the less confident ones who inherently distrust foreign commuter services rather than airport expresses. Can't be many of them. I think it's a majority. Local commuter services have a poor reputation, the New York subways being the poster boy. The NY subway doesn't go to LGA and only goes to JFK airport with a long slow trip out to Queens with a connection to the Airtrain so I'm not too surprised. The Long Island Railroad also goes to that Airtrain much faster and lots of people take it. The NJ Transit train goes to Newark airport via another airtrain and it's also quite popular. Elsewhere in North America, the subway or local commuter train goes to the airports in Toronto, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington DC (National), Atlanta, Chicago (both airports), Dallas, St Louis, San Francisco, Portland OR, Seattle, Vancouver, and probably other places I haven't been to. In each case there's been plenty of people on the train with me with suitcases. And the same is true in London of course. The Tube runs a much more frequent (12 tph vs 4 tph), but slower stopping service to Heathrow, and the trains are packed with suitcases and travellers (many of them foreign). It carries significantly more pax than HEx and TfL Rail combined. "The Piccadilly Line accounts for the bulk of the rail and tube journeys to Heathrow (42 per cent of all air passenger journeys to the airport by public transport and 16 per cent of all air passenger journeys to the airport by all modes)." That's fine for the people comfortable using it. HEx is for the passengers who would in normal circumstances take a taxi. https://bettertransport.org.uk/sites...ch-files/surfa ce-access-final.pdf -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
In message , at 22:06:47 on Wed, 6 Nov 2019,
Recliner remarked: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 20:05:39 on Wed, 6 Nov 2019, remarked: On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 09:38:02 +0000 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 22:16:22 on Sun, 3 Nov 2019, Recliner remarked: It's not just tourists and Heathrow workers who have to get to the airport: plenty of British travellers and savvy foreign travellers use the airport too. Any of them who have been HEx users will switch to Crossrail when it's fully open, and not just because it's cheaper. That won't leave enough premium payers on HEx to keep it viable. It'll leave all the first-time visitors, which will probably be the Why would it? I'm sure most of them can read a metro map and will immediately spot the lines that go to central london and won't much care for the one that goes to a bears home. For the reasons I've explained why airport express services are more attractive than the local commuter services. majority. Plus all the less confident ones who inherently distrust foreign commuter services rather than airport expresses. Can't be many of them. I think it's a majority. Local commuter services have a poor reputation, the New York subways being the poster boy. Remember that HEx and Crossrail will be using the same stations and even the same platforms at Heathrow. That doesn't happen with local commuter services. Someone trying to catch HEx from T4 will actually have to start their journey on a Crossrail train and change at Central, and perhaps again at Paddington, rather than just taking a through train. They'll be able to realise their mistake while looking at the route map on the Crossrail train. By then they've bought their ticket. On their next trip to England they may make a different choice. People waiting for a HEx train at Heathrow Central might have to let a Crossrail service go first, from the same platform. That's not like the Tube or Gatwick Southern services, which aren't visible from the Express platforms. This, of course, will probably lead to confusion between the services: will people always get on their intended train? Do many people today get on HEx services if they've only got a Connect ticket? I don't know, but it's not something that hits the headlines. -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:43:10 on Wed, 6 Nov 2019, John Levine remarked: In article , Roland Perry wrote: majority. Plus all the less confident ones who inherently distrust foreign commuter services rather than airport expresses. Can't be many of them. I think it's a majority. Local commuter services have a poor reputation, the New York subways being the poster boy. The NY subway doesn't go to LGA and only goes to JFK airport with a long slow trip out to Queens with a connection to the Airtrain so I'm not too surprised. What I mean is that city subways get tarred with that brush, irrespective of whether or not the NY on goes anywhere near an airport. The Long Island Railroad also goes to that Airtrain much faster and lots of people take it. The NJ Transit train goes to Newark airport via another airtrain and it's also quite popular. How many of those people are visitors on their first trip to NY? Elsewhere in North America, the subway or local commuter train goes to the airports in Toronto, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington DC (National), Atlanta, Chicago (both airports), Dallas, St Louis, San Francisco, Portland OR, Seattle, Vancouver, and probably other places I haven't been to. In each case there's been plenty of people on the train with me with suitcases. First time visitors to the city, who would normally use a taxi? Atlanta's another metro system where people have said I was crazy to mix it with the locals. It's a very deep seated prejudice. Yes, it's straightforward racial prejudice with MARTA. That could also apply to some other public transit systems that serve airports. |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:06:47 on Wed, 6 Nov 2019, Recliner remarked: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 20:05:39 on Wed, 6 Nov 2019, remarked: On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 09:38:02 +0000 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 22:16:22 on Sun, 3 Nov 2019, Recliner remarked: It's not just tourists and Heathrow workers who have to get to the airport: plenty of British travellers and savvy foreign travellers use the airport too. Any of them who have been HEx users will switch to Crossrail when it's fully open, and not just because it's cheaper. That won't leave enough premium payers on HEx to keep it viable. It'll leave all the first-time visitors, which will probably be the Why would it? I'm sure most of them can read a metro map and will immediately spot the lines that go to central london and won't much care for the one that goes to a bears home. For the reasons I've explained why airport express services are more attractive than the local commuter services. majority. Plus all the less confident ones who inherently distrust foreign commuter services rather than airport expresses. Can't be many of them. I think it's a majority. Local commuter services have a poor reputation, the New York subways being the poster boy. Remember that HEx and Crossrail will be using the same stations and even the same platforms at Heathrow. That doesn't happen with local commuter services. Someone trying to catch HEx from T4 will actually have to start their journey on a Crossrail train and change at Central, and perhaps again at Paddington, rather than just taking a through train. They'll be able to realise their mistake while looking at the route map on the Crossrail train. By then they've bought their ticket. On their next trip to England they may make a different choice. Yup, HEx may only catch them the once, and probably only in one direction. Not a good long-term business model. People waiting for a HEx train at Heathrow Central might have to let a Crossrail service go first, from the same platform. That's not like the Tube or Gatwick Southern services, which aren't visible from the Express platforms. This, of course, will probably lead to confusion between the services: will people always get on their intended train? Do many people today get on HEx services if they've only got a Connect ticket? I don't know, but it's not something that hits the headlines. I don't know either, but it's likely to happen much more with the more frequent Crossrail services. |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
In message , at 16:35:39 on Thu, 7 Nov 2019,
Recliner remarked: Someone trying to catch HEx from T4 will actually have to start their journey on a Crossrail train and change at Central, and perhaps again at Paddington, rather than just taking a through train. They'll be able to realise their mistake while looking at the route map on the Crossrail train. By then they've bought their ticket. On their next trip to England they may make a different choice. Yup, HEx may only catch them the once, and probably only in one direction. Not a good long-term business model. You are over-estimating the willingness of the sort of person whose normal policy is "no-one got fired getting a taxi end to end", to start grappling with London's commuter rail services. How would they even know (or care) what the cheaper fare was on Crossrail? Even assuming that a railhead at one of the Crossrail stations in central London is a compellingly shorter taxi-ride to their ultimate destination than Paddington. -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:35:39 on Thu, 7 Nov 2019, Recliner remarked: Someone trying to catch HEx from T4 will actually have to start their journey on a Crossrail train and change at Central, and perhaps again at Paddington, rather than just taking a through train. They'll be able to realise their mistake while looking at the route map on the Crossrail train. By then they've bought their ticket. On their next trip to England they may make a different choice. Yup, HEx may only catch them the once, and probably only in one direction. Not a good long-term business model. You are over-estimating the willingness of the sort of person whose normal policy is "no-one got fired getting a taxi end to end", to start grappling with London's commuter rail services. Not at all: the keenest taxi users use taxis anyway, not HEx. For many people, Paddington just isn't in the right place, even to get a taxi. And you seem to under-estimate the effort in getting from the HEx Padd platform to the taxi rank; many Crossrail stations will have more convenient taxi ranks. People, particularly with luggage, or if travelling as a couple or family, will find a door-to-door taxi much more convenient than taking a train part of the way, then getting a taxi. So HEx only gets a subset of possible taxi users. And that subset will shrink when Crossrail gets going. How would they even know (or care) what the cheaper fare was on Crossrail? Probably large signs advertising Crossrail's lower prices. They'll also see the much more useful route map. Even assuming that a railhead at one of the Crossrail stations in central London is a compellingly shorter taxi-ride to their ultimate destination than Paddington. Not just central London: Ealing Broadway may be more convenient for people heading to west London, and people going to the City or Canary Wharf would be crazy to take HEx rather than Crossrail. |
Heathrow Express slashes fares all over the world
In article ,
Roland Perry wrote: The Long Island Railroad also goes to that Airtrain much faster and lots of people take it. The NJ Transit train goes to Newark airport via another airtrain and it's also quite popular. How many of those people are visitors on their first trip to NY? I haven't a clue. Probably depends where they're from. Elsewhere in North America, the subway or local commuter train goes to the airports in Toronto, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington DC (National), Atlanta, Chicago (both airports), Dallas, St Louis, San Francisco, Portland OR, Seattle, Vancouver, and probably other places I haven't been to. In each case there's been plenty of people on the train with me with suitcases. First time visitors to the city, who would normally use a taxi? Here in the US, the normal thing at an airport is to rent a car, not to take a taxi. The distances are greater, and we have absurdly large car parks. One time at a conference in Lyon (where there is a convenient overpriced tram from the airport) a young guy from California on his first international trip rented a car and attempted to drive it around the city. It was pretty funny. Atlanta's another metro system where people have said I was crazy to mix it with the locals. It's a very deep seated prejudice. I can believe it. The local snark is that MARTA means Moving Africans Rapidly Through Atlanta. The communter traffic is horrible but adjacent counties have repeatedly voted down MARTA extensions because Those People could come to their counties. (It is my impression that a whole lot of those people come as house cleaners and garden guys, presumably arriving by magic, or more likely very slow buses.) I've never had any trouble on MARTA. -- Regards, John Levine, , Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly |
Heathrow Express slashes fares all over the world
In message , at 06:30:02 on Fri, 8 Nov 2019,
John Levine remarked: In article , Roland Perry wrote: The Long Island Railroad also goes to that Airtrain much faster and lots of people take it. The NJ Transit train goes to Newark airport via another airtrain and it's also quite popular. How many of those people are visitors on their first trip to NY? I haven't a clue. Probably depends where they're from. It's vital to your thesis because HEx is catering for the high-end airline passenger who has probably never visited London before, and just wants to be spoon-fed an "airport express" service to the city centre. Elsewhere in North America, the subway or local commuter train goes to the airports in Toronto, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington DC (National), Atlanta, Chicago (both airports), Dallas, St Louis, San Francisco, Portland OR, Seattle, Vancouver, and probably other places I haven't been to. In each case there's been plenty of people on the train with me with suitcases. First time visitors to the city, who would normally use a taxi? Here in the US, the normal thing at an airport is to rent a car, not to take a taxi. I think that's a huge stretch for the kind of travellers involved. For example the first time I flew into Atlanta from the UK for a trade show in the city centre, a hire car would be a huge liability. As would one have been to a similar trade show six months later in New York. What I needed was to hire a car for an hour to take me to my hotel (and a few days later, back to the airport). That's called a Taxi. That doesn't mean I've never flown into a city and hired a car, but thinking back it's always when I've been on holiday, and my destination was some way outside that city. That's quite disjoint from HEx's target market which is people otherwise taking a taxi from Heathrow to Zone 1. And, of course, for whom even the regular HEx fare is down in the noise level compared to their $2000 flight or $200/night hotel. The distances are greater, and we have absurdly large car parks. One time at a conference in Lyon (where there is a convenient overpriced tram from the airport) a young guy from California on his first international trip rented a car and attempted to drive it around the city. It was pretty funny. It'd be like that in London. And remember, we are discussing why people would use HEx rather than other modes of transport. To hire a car at Heathrow to drive to hotel in Zone 1 would be insane. Atlanta's another metro system where people have said I was crazy to mix it with the locals. It's a very deep seated prejudice. I can believe it. The local snark is that MARTA means Moving Africans Rapidly Through Atlanta. The communter traffic is horrible but adjacent counties have repeatedly voted down MARTA extensions because Those People could come to their counties. (It is my impression that a whole lot of those people come as house cleaners and garden guys, presumably arriving by magic, or more likely very slow buses.) I've never had any trouble on MARTA. I've never had any trouble on MARTA either, and yes the resistance to extensions is for precisely the same reason people fear city metro systems almost everywhere (regardless of the ethnicity of the locals): that it's perceived as the mode of choice of thieves and muggers. -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
In message , at 16:35:39 on Thu, 7 Nov 2019,
Recliner remarked: Atlanta's another metro system where people have said I was crazy to mix it with the locals. It's a very deep seated prejudice. Yes, it's straightforward racial prejudice with MARTA. That could also apply to some other public transit systems that serve airports. It's a prejudice against muggers, which Hollywood (and others) portray as infesting metro systems. The ethnicity of the muggers will depend on which country, as well as which city. -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
In message , at 21:39:44 on Thu, 7 Nov 2019,
Recliner remarked: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 16:35:39 on Thu, 7 Nov 2019, Recliner remarked: Someone trying to catch HEx from T4 will actually have to start their journey on a Crossrail train and change at Central, and perhaps again at Paddington, rather than just taking a through train. They'll be able to realise their mistake while looking at the route map on the Crossrail train. By then they've bought their ticket. On their next trip to England they may make a different choice. Yup, HEx may only catch them the once, and probably only in one direction. Not a good long-term business model. You are over-estimating the willingness of the sort of person whose normal policy is "no-one got fired getting a taxi end to end", to start grappling with London's commuter rail services. Not at all: the keenest taxi users use taxis anyway, not HEx. The target market is those who *can* be persuaded to try the airport express instead. For many people, Paddington just isn't in the right place, even to get a taxi. HEx's ridership, exceeding their estimates, appears to prove this wrong. And you seem to under-estimate the effort in getting from the HEx Padd platform to the taxi rank; It's pretty easy, actually. And a very similar experience to seeking a taxi rank at an airport. many Crossrail stations will have more convenient taxi ranks. Nominate one, and we'll see what it's like when the station eventually opens. People, particularly with luggage, or if travelling as a couple or family, will find a door-to-door taxi much more convenient than taking a train part of the way, then getting a taxi. So HEx only gets a subset of possible taxi users. And that subset will shrink when Crossrail gets going. No-one has claimed they get the whole market, but it has successfully got the market it projected. How would they even know (or care) what the cheaper fare was on Crossrail? Probably large signs advertising Crossrail's lower prices. They'll also see the much more useful route map. People navigating an unfamiliar airport like Heathrow will be suffering from sign-blindness. There's simply too much going on. That why (whether you approve of it or not) the HEx ticket sellers have an easy time. Even assuming that a railhead at one of the Crossrail stations in central London is a compellingly shorter taxi-ride to their ultimate destination than Paddington. Not just central London: Ealing Broadway may be more convenient for people heading to west London, and people going to the City or Canary Wharf would be crazy to take HEx rather than Crossrail. I agree that if you are going to Canary Wharf then Crossrail should be a better choice, but you have to persuade people it's better than the average big city commuter railway. Ealing Broadway (in general not just the station) is rather inhospitable as a railhead. I don't think I'd recommend it for a novice overseas visitor. -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow Express slashes fares all over the world
On 08/11/2019 07:54, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 06:30:02 on Fri, 8 Nov 2019, John Levine remarked: In article , Roland PerryÂ* wrote: The Long Island Railroad also goes to that Airtrain much faster and lots of people take it.Â* The NJ Transit train goes to Newark airport via another airtrain and it's also quite popular. How many of those people are visitors on their first trip to NY? I haven't a clue.Â* Probably depends where they're from. It's vital to your thesis because HEx is catering for the high-end airline passenger who has probably never visited London before, and just wants to be spoon-fed an "airport express" service to the city centre. Elsewhere in North America, the subway or local commuter train goes to the airports in Toronto, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington DC (National), Atlanta, Chicago (both airports), Dallas, St Louis, San Francisco, Portland OR, Seattle, Vancouver, and probably other places I haven't been to.Â* In each case there's been plenty of people on the train with me with suitcases. First time visitors to the city, who would normally use a taxi? Here in the US, the normal thing at an airport is to rent a car, not to take a taxi. I think that's a huge stretch for the kind of travellers involved. For example the first time I flew into Atlanta from the UK for a trade show in the city centre, a hire car would be a huge liability. As would one have been to a similar trade show six months later in New York. What I needed was to hire a car for an hour to take me to my hotel (and a few days later, back to the airport). That's called a Taxi. That doesn't mean I've never flown into a city and hired a car, but thinking back it's always when I've been on holiday, and my destination was some way outside that city. That's quite disjoint from HEx's target market which is people otherwise taking a taxi from Heathrow to Zone 1. And, of course, for whom even the regular HEx fare is down in the noise level compared to their $2000 flight or $200/night hotel. The distances are greater, and we have absurdly large car parks.Â* One time at a conference in Lyon (where there is a convenient overpriced tram from the airport) a young guy from California on his first international trip rented a car and attempted to drive it around the city.Â* It was pretty funny. It'd be like that in London. And remember, we are discussing why people would use HEx rather than other modes of transport. To hire a car at Heathrow to drive to hotel in Zone 1 would be insane. Atlanta's another metro system where people have said I was crazy to mix it with the locals. It's a very deep seated prejudice. I can believe it.Â* The local snark is that MARTA means Moving Africans Rapidly Through Atlanta.Â* The communter traffic is horrible but adjacent counties have repeatedly voted down MARTA extensions because Those People could come to their counties.Â* (It is my impression that a whole lot of those people come as house cleaners and garden guys, presumably arriving by magic, or more likely very slow buses.)Â* I've never had any trouble on MARTA. I've never had any trouble on MARTA either, and yes the resistance to extensions is for precisely the same reason people fear city metro systems almost everywhere (regardless of the ethnicity of the locals): that it's perceived as the mode of choice of thieves and muggers. Shades of the Duke of Wellington! -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:39:44 on Thu, 7 Nov 2019, Recliner remarked: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 16:35:39 on Thu, 7 Nov 2019, Recliner remarked: Someone trying to catch HEx from T4 will actually have to start their journey on a Crossrail train and change at Central, and perhaps again at Paddington, rather than just taking a through train. They'll be able to realise their mistake while looking at the route map on the Crossrail train. By then they've bought their ticket. On their next trip to England they may make a different choice. Yup, HEx may only catch them the once, and probably only in one direction. Not a good long-term business model. You are over-estimating the willingness of the sort of person whose normal policy is "no-one got fired getting a taxi end to end", to start grappling with London's commuter rail services. Not at all: the keenest taxi users use taxis anyway, not HEx. The target market is those who *can* be persuaded to try the airport express instead. For many people, Paddington just isn't in the right place, even to get a taxi. HEx's ridership, exceeding their estimates, appears to prove this wrong. And you seem to under-estimate the effort in getting from the HEx Padd platform to the taxi rank; It's pretty easy, actually. And a very similar experience to seeking a taxi rank at an airport. many Crossrail stations will have more convenient taxi ranks. Nominate one, and we'll see what it's like when the station eventually opens. People, particularly with luggage, or if travelling as a couple or family, will find a door-to-door taxi much more convenient than taking a train part of the way, then getting a taxi. So HEx only gets a subset of possible taxi users. And that subset will shrink when Crossrail gets going. No-one has claimed they get the whole market, but it has successfully got the market it projected. How would they even know (or care) what the cheaper fare was on Crossrail? Probably large signs advertising Crossrail's lower prices. They'll also see the much more useful route map. People navigating an unfamiliar airport like Heathrow will be suffering from sign-blindness. There's simply too much going on. That why (whether you approve of it or not) the HEx ticket sellers have an easy time. Even assuming that a railhead at one of the Crossrail stations in central London is a compellingly shorter taxi-ride to their ultimate destination than Paddington. Not just central London: Ealing Broadway may be more convenient for people heading to west London, and people going to the City or Canary Wharf would be crazy to take HEx rather than Crossrail. I agree that if you are going to Canary Wharf then Crossrail should be a better choice, but you have to persuade people it's better than the average big city commuter railway. Ealing Broadway (in general not just the station) is rather inhospitable as a railhead. I don't think I'd recommend it for a novice overseas visitor. Why? Lift up to the station, a few steps through the barrier, taxi rank right outside. Far better than the long hike at Paddington from platfrm 6/7 to the taxi rank above and beyond the H&C line platform 16. |
Heathrow Express slashes fares all over the world
On 08/11/2019 06:30, John Levine wrote:
Here in the US, the normal thing at an airport is to rent a car, not to take a taxi. I've never done that when arriving from the UK. I'm usually too jet-lagged to even think about driving. I mostly stay with friends, so either they pick me up or I get a taxi. If I need a car, I'll get it the next day. I have picked up cars at airports on internal flights, though. -- Ria in Aberdeen [Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct] |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 20:50:33 +0000
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 20:05:39 on Wed, 6 Nov 2019, remarked: On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 09:38:02 +0000 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 22:16:22 on Sun, 3 Nov 2019, Recliner remarked: It's not just tourists and Heathrow workers who have to get to the airport: plenty of British travellers and savvy foreign travellers use the airport too. Any of them who have been HEx users will switch to Crossrail when it's fully open, and not just because it's cheaper. That won't leave enough premium payers on HEx to keep it viable. It'll leave all the first-time visitors, which will probably be the Why would it? I'm sure most of them can read a metro map and will immediately spot the lines that go to central london and won't much care for the one that goes to a bears home. For the reasons I've explained why airport express services are more attractive than the local commuter services. I think you're underestimating them. Its not the 1990s anymore where tourists rock up in a new place scratching their heads and clutching a Lonely Planet book not quite sure what to do. I imagine most of them will have done their homework online including the best way to get from the airport to their hotel and if that involves a train no doubt Crossrail will feature. Aside from Hex I suspect the piccadilly line will face a hefty slump in passengers too given how slow and uncomfortable it is. |
Heathrow Express slashes fares all over the world
In message , at 14:37:03 on Fri, 8 Nov
2019, MissRiaElaine remarked: On 08/11/2019 06:30, John Levine wrote: Here in the US, the normal thing at an airport is to rent a car, not to take a taxi. I've never done that when arriving from the UK. I'm usually too jet-lagged to even think about driving. I mostly stay with friends, so either they pick me up or I get a taxi. If I need a car, I'll get it the next day. I have picked up cars at airports on internal flights, though. UK internal, or USA internal? Back in the day, I did once have a long weekend in Glasgow which involved a flight from London and a rental car. But that was when I had a very well paid job where being on any kind of holiday was hugely disapproved of. So one had to flit around within strict limits, that would not have allowed any other means of transport (other than perhaps a private helicopter). -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow Express slashes fares (so it says!)
In article , Roland Perry
writes As a result, and even as a more adventurous traveller (colleagues were amazed I dared get a bus from Geneva to the airport, and didn't even consider rail) I think I've only once got a train on first arrival at a suitably equipped overseas airport. Working backwards through my travel log. Vienna: caught the CAT train then the U-bahn to the hotel. No problem. Possibly CAT is overpriced but it went to the right place and I could buy a ticket right in the terminal. Seoul: first trip I used the express bus that stopped outside the company hotel rather than two or three (long) metro trips and then a 2 km taxi in a country where I can't even read the signs. Second trip, just used the metro to the (different) hotel; both cheaper and faster than the express bus. Seattle: wasn't going anywhere on the tram, so rented a car (perhaps I should have tried Uber, but I never have so far). In the past I've used the tram. I forget what I did before there were trams. Minneapolis St.Paul: wasn't staying near the metro, such as it is, and wasn't staying close enough to the meeting place to walk, so rented a car. Perth: got picked up by relatives this time. Last time, rented a car because I was going several hundred km. When I returned the car I took bus+metro to my hotel. (I eventually left Perth by train.) Sydney: train. Opal card. Trivial. Cairns: no metro, rented a car. But did catch the train once. Copenhagen: metro or train every time (including to Aalborg, Lund, and Goteborg). Atlanta: MARTA works fine. What's the problem? Singapo metro, of course. Madrid: metro. AYQ: got the dedicated bus service. Melbourne: bus to central area, then tram to hotel. Trams and local trains thereafter (left Melbourne on a coach trip). Hobart: rented a car because going to catch the Ida Bay railway then drive to Launceston. Cagliari: rented a car because was going all over the place. But did ride the entire tram network while I was there. Aalborg: no trams to hotel, so used a taxi. San Francisco: always been going somewhere that needs a car, though I have used the San Jose trams (and once acted as conductor on one). Billund: no public transport and needed to get to Aalborg. Hong Kong: metro and tram. Octopus card. Simples. Amsterdam: train and tram. Montreal: from memory, express bus to the city (Dorval train wasn't workable) but metro in the city. Calgary: rented a car because had to drive half way to Banff. ACE: rented a car because going all over the place. DFW: rented a car because it's nowhere near D or FW with no public transport I can find. Stockholm: train and metro. That's 7 years; I think I'll stop there. -- Clive D.W. Feather |
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