On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 16:38:54 +0100
Robin wrote:
On 01/06/2020 14:39, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 01/06/2020 10:07, wrote:

Allowing individuals to decide for themselves means they are forcing
their decisions on other people.Â* I'm fed up with the lycras around
here who've decided social distancing is unnecessary.

But it's ok for you, the government and every other Tom, Dick or Harry
to force their decisions on us. You can't have it both ways.

And the next person who utters the appalling phrase "social distancing"
will get a slap. Why can't they just say keep your distance..?


As with many such things "social distancing" started off as a term of
art among public health professionals and leaked into general usage from
them - starting many years ago.

Plus "social distancing" arguably now conveys something more specific
(in the UK, 2m) than "keeping your distance" which could more or less
depending on context - eg when drivinh on a motorway rather more than 2m*.

Social distancing in its current form was simply another method of scaring
the public. "No! Don't go near anyone, you might die!" Etc. Making people
afraid - sometimes with a visible enemy (real or fabricated), sometimes not -
so you can control their behaviour more easily is a tried and tested method of
governments down the ages. Its utterly cynical, anti democratic and I have no
time for it.

On 02/06/2020 09:37, wrote:
On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 16:38:54 +0100
Robin wrote:
On 01/06/2020 14:39, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 01/06/2020 10:07, wrote:

Allowing individuals to decide for themselves means they are forcing
their decisions on other people.ÂÂ* I'm fed up with the lycras around
here who've decided social distancing is unnecessary.

But it's ok for you, the government and every other Tom, Dick or Harry
to force their decisions on us. You can't have it both ways.

And the next person who utters the appalling phrase "social distancing"
will get a slap. Why can't they just say keep your distance..?


As with many such things "social distancing" started off as a term of
art among public health professionals and leaked into general usage from
them - starting many years ago.

Plus "social distancing" arguably now conveys something more specific
(in the UK, 2m) than "keeping your distance" which could more or less
depending on context - eg when drivinh on a motorway rather more than 2m*.

Social distancing in its current form was simply another method of scaring
the public. "No! Don't go near anyone, you might die!" Etc. Making people
afraid - sometimes with a visible enemy (real or fabricated), sometimes not -
so you can control their behaviour more easily is a tried and tested method of
governments down the ages. Its utterly cynical, anti democratic and I have no
time for it.


ROTFL

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 10:04:38 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 02/06/2020 09:37, wrote:
On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 16:38:54 +0100
Robin wrote:
On 01/06/2020 14:39, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 01/06/2020 10:07, wrote:

Allowing individuals to decide for themselves means they are forcing
their decisions on other people.ÂÂ* I'm fed up with the lycras around
here who've decided social distancing is unnecessary.

But it's ok for you, the government and every other Tom, Dick or Harry
to force their decisions on us. You can't have it both ways.

And the next person who utters the appalling phrase "social distancing"
will get a slap. Why can't they just say keep your distance..?


As with many such things "social distancing" started off as a term of
art among public health professionals and leaked into general usage from
them - starting many years ago.

Plus "social distancing" arguably now conveys something more specific
(in the UK, 2m) than "keeping your distance" which could more or less
depending on context - eg when drivinh on a motorway rather more than 2m*.

Social distancing in its current form was simply another method of scaring
the public. "No! Don't go near anyone, you might die!" Etc. Making people
afraid - sometimes with a visible enemy (real or fabricated), sometimes not -

so you can control their behaviour more easily is a tried and tested method
of
governments down the ages. Its utterly cynical, anti democratic and I have
no
time for it.


ROTFL

Roll all you like. Governments have been playing the fear card for months now
but as Sweden and Japan have shown, this virus isn't nearly as contagious
or deadly as they would have us believe.

wrote:

Roll all you like. Governments have been playing the fear card for months now
but as Sweden and Japan have shown, this virus isn't nearly as contagious
or deadly as they would have us believe.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/swed...-herd-immunity

On Tue, 02 Jun 2020 07:04:37 -0500
Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
wrote:

Roll all you like. Governments have been playing the fear card for months now
but as Sweden and Japan have shown, this virus isn't nearly as contagious
or deadly as they would have us believe.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/swed...-herd-immunity

Wired? Give me a break. As for well and truly failed - how can a herd
immunity approach that has less deaths per million than belgium, UK, spain and
italy and only slight more than france which all had tight lockdowns be said to
have failed exactly?

Given the figures for virus deaths are all over the place for various
countries independent of whatever sort of lockdown they had, it seems pretty
clear to me the way this virus spreads is a lot more complex than the "experts"
think.

Lockdown or no lockdown, the thing that worries me the most is how many
of the small businesses and one-man bands will survive after all this..?
Charities which rely on shops for a good proportion if not the majority
of their income may go under.

I'm retired so I'm reasonably ok in that I don't have to go out to work,
although I'm by no means well off. But I do know many small traders and
they are very, very worried.

--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

MissRiaElaine wrote:
Lockdown or no lockdown, the thing that worries me the most is how many
of the small businesses and one-man bands will survive after all this..?
Charities which rely on shops for a good proportion if not the majority
of their income may go under.

I'm retired so I'm reasonably ok in that I don't have to go out to work,
although I'm by no means well off. But I do know many small traders and
they are very, very worried.


Yes, there will be far more economic casualties from Covid-19 than those
who get sick. The international travel industry will be among the hardest
hit, from cruise ships to airlines to resorts. Just about all the world's
seaferers and most airline crew are currently not working, and many will
soon be laid off.

For example, Emirates will be laying off thousands of air crew who will not
only lose their jobs, but their residence in Dubai:

Emirates, the state-owned carrier based in Dubai, has laid off about 180
pilots on May 31, as part of its larger plan to reduce costs after being
low because of COVID-19.

Sources told Moneycontrol that the 180 pilots were first officers who were
under training for type-rating on the A380. These pilots were on probation.

"This is the first phase of the layoffs. These pilots were called to the
office and given the letters," a senior executive said. "More announcements
are expected tomorrow," the executive added.

Moneycontrol has seen a copy of one of these letters.

While the notice period for those on probation is seven days, the airline
said that it is extending this to 14 days, as a 'gesture of goodwill.' The
letter added:
"Your last day of service would, therefore, be June 15, and you will
continue to receive your usual company medical benefits... should you be
unable to repatriate due to travel restrictions, your visa will be extended
being your last day of service."

The news comes weeks after reports emerged that the airline will lay off 30
percent of its crew and pilots. This will translate to about 30,000
employees.

wrote:
On Tue, 02 Jun 2020 07:04:37 -0500
Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
wrote:

Roll all you like. Governments have been playing the fear card for months now
but as Sweden and Japan have shown, this virus isn't nearly as contagious
or deadly as they would have us believe.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/swed...-herd-immunity

Wired? Give me a break. As for well and truly failed - how can a herd
immunity approach that has less deaths per million than belgium, UK, spain and
italy and only slight more than france which all had tight lockdowns be said to
have failed exactly?


Default behaviours in different countries/regions differ, and therefore
affect their 'default' transmission rates. It appears that Sweden's
'default' death rate is around the same as our lockdown death rate,
presumably because they do stuff like not hugging random strangers as a
greeting. Their transmission rate is around eight times their
presumably-comparable neighbours; therefore, without lockdown, would our
death rate be eight times what it is with lockdown? Clearly the unaccounted
variable in this is how much infection was already in the country (from
Italian skiing trips?) before lockdown.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 23:08:29 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 02 Jun 2020 07:04:37 -0500
Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
wrote:

Roll all you like. Governments have been playing the fear card for months
now
but as Sweden and Japan have shown, this virus isn't nearly as contagious
or deadly as they would have us believe.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/swed...-herd-immunity

Wired? Give me a break. As for well and truly failed - how can a herd
immunity approach that has less deaths per million than belgium, UK, spain
and
italy and only slight more than france which all had tight lockdowns be said
to
have failed exactly?


Default behaviours in different countries/regions differ, and therefore
affect their 'default' transmission rates. It appears that Sweden's
'default' death rate is around the same as our lockdown death rate,
presumably because they do stuff like not hugging random strangers as a

We don't tend to hug random strangers here in the UK, nor do they do that
much in Belgium AFAIK. You're clutching at straws.

greeting. Their transmission rate is around eight times their
presumably-comparable neighbours; therefore, without lockdown, would our

Why does everyone assume NOrway and Denmark are equivalent to Sweden? Just
because they all speak dialects of the same language?

wrote:
On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 10:04:38 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 02/06/2020 09:37, wrote:
On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 16:38:54 +0100
Robin wrote:
On 01/06/2020 14:39, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 01/06/2020 10:07, wrote:

Allowing individuals to decide for themselves means they are forcing
their decisions on other people.ÂÂ* I'm fed up with the lycras around
here who've decided social distancing is unnecessary.

But it's ok for you, the government and every other Tom, Dick or Harry
to force their decisions on us. You can't have it both ways.

And the next person who utters the appalling phrase "social distancing"
will get a slap. Why can't they just say keep your distance..?


As with many such things "social distancing" started off as a term of
art among public health professionals and leaked into general usage from
them - starting many years ago.

Plus "social distancing" arguably now conveys something more specific
(in the UK, 2m) than "keeping your distance" which could more or less
depending on context - eg when drivinh on a motorway rather more than 2m*.

Social distancing in its current form was simply another method of scaring
the public. "No! Don't go near anyone, you might die!" Etc. Making people
afraid - sometimes with a visible enemy (real or fabricated), sometimes not -

so you can control their behaviour more easily is a tried and tested method
of
governments down the ages. Its utterly cynical, anti democratic and I have
no
time for it.


ROTFL

Roll all you like. Governments have been playing the fear card for months now
but as Sweden and Japan have shown, this virus isn't nearly as contagious
or deadly as they would have us believe.



Except for eight times higher death rate in Sweden than in its
otherwise-comparable neighbours.

And various articles about how Japan are very reluctant to put
Coronavirus/Covid designation even on people who are blatantly displaying
all the symptoms.

Oh and South Korea have gone back into partial lockdown.


Anna Noyd-Dryver