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Old September 15th 08, 10:18 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Changeless bus passenger denied boarding

On Sunday morning, about 08.00,I was on a 21 to Lewisham at London
Bridge/Monument. A passenger boarded and tried to pay with a twenty
pound note. The driver had no change and nor did other passengers. The
passenger was made to get off the bus. I was horrified and complained,
this morning, at 0845 300 7000. The stop is not "Pay before you board".
It seems the operator should have issued a pay later chit.
I have never seen this happen before; it would not have affected me as I
use an auto-topped Oyster.
--
Walter Briscoe

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Old September 15th 08, 10:21 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Changeless bus passenger denied boarding

Walter Briscoe wrote:
On Sunday morning, about 08.00,I was on a 21 to Lewisham at London
Bridge/Monument. A passenger boarded and tried to pay with a twenty
pound note. The driver had no change and nor did other passengers. The
passenger was made to get off the bus. I was horrified and complained,
this morning, at 0845 300 7000. The stop is not "Pay before you board".
It seems the operator should have issued a pay later chit.
I have never seen this happen before; it would not have affected me as I
use an auto-topped Oyster.


My father was an LT driver back in the 70s and 80s and they were told
that they were under no obligation to give change at all although they
should always try to do so.

Roy
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Old September 15th 08, 11:34 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Changeless bus passenger denied boarding

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:21:10 +0100, Roy Stilling
wrote:

Walter Briscoe wrote:
On Sunday morning, about 08.00,I was on a 21 to Lewisham at London
Bridge/Monument. A passenger boarded and tried to pay with a twenty
pound note. The driver had no change and nor did other passengers. The
passenger was made to get off the bus. I was horrified and complained,
this morning, at 0845 300 7000. The stop is not "Pay before you board".
It seems the operator should have issued a pay later chit.
I have never seen this happen before; it would not have affected me as I
use an auto-topped Oyster.


My father was an LT driver back in the 70s and 80s and they were told
that they were under no obligation to give change at all although they
should always try to do so.


I was a bus driver in the 70s.

We were not issued with a float; I assume this is still the case. Many
drivers kept a small float of their own (I did, but only about a pounds'
worth) but others didn't and were under no obligation to do so. As you
say, the assumption has always been that the right money would be given,
and change given when possible but not guaranteed.

If you couldn't give change, the procedure was that you should take what
was tendered and issue an Unrefunded Change form.
The passenger could collect their change from the bus garage after you
had paid in.

It was amazing how many people, thinking the ploy would get them a free
ride, would then suddenly find the right money rather than have to visit
Dunton Green.

In the odd case where it was obviously genuine, I did my best to find
the change before the passenger alighted, but occasionally a visit to
the garage was needed.

However, nobody would ever be refused travel for not having the right
money - after all, if they didn't collect it, the company kept it!

We weren't even allowed to refuse travel to somebody who had *no* money.
We would take the passenger's name and address, complete an Uncollected
Fare form and let the company deal with it.

Incidentally, as a kid in the 1950s this was once a lifesaver. I lost
my Rover ticket and had to rely on Unpaid Fare forms to get me home.

--
Bill Hayles

http://billnot.com
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Old September 15th 08, 12:22 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Changeless bus passenger denied boarding

In message of Mon, 15 Sep
2008 10:34:35 in uk.transport.london, Bill Hayles
writes
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:21:10 +0100, Roy Stilling
wrote:

Walter Briscoe wrote:
On Sunday morning, about 08.00,I was on a 21 to Lewisham at London
Bridge/Monument. A passenger boarded and tried to pay with a twenty
pound note. The driver had no change and nor did other passengers. The
passenger was made to get off the bus. I was horrified and complained,
this morning, at 0845 300 7000. The stop is not "Pay before you board".
It seems the operator should have issued a pay later chit.
I have never seen this happen before; it would not have affected me as I
use an auto-topped Oyster.


My father was an LT driver back in the 70s and 80s and they were told
that they were under no obligation to give change at all although they
should always try to do so.


I was a bus driver in the 70s.

We were not issued with a float; I assume this is still the case. Many
drivers kept a small float of their own (I did, but only about a pounds'
worth) but others didn't and were under no obligation to do so. As you
say, the assumption has always been that the right money would be given,
and change given when possible but not guaranteed.

If you couldn't give change, the procedure was that you should take what
was tendered and issue an Unrefunded Change form.
The passenger could collect their change from the bus garage after you
had paid in.

It was amazing how many people, thinking the ploy would get them a free
ride, would then suddenly find the right money rather than have to visit
Dunton Green.

In the odd case where it was obviously genuine, I did my best to find
the change before the passenger alighted, but occasionally a visit to
the garage was needed.

However, nobody would ever be refused travel for not having the right
money - after all, if they didn't collect it, the company kept it!

We weren't even allowed to refuse travel to somebody who had *no* money.
We would take the passenger's name and address, complete an Uncollected
Fare form and let the company deal with it.

Incidentally, as a kid in the 1950s this was once a lifesaver. I lost
my Rover ticket and had to rely on Unpaid Fare forms to get me home.


Thanks for both replies. My understanding is enhanced.
When a child, I used to offer a shilling for a three halfpenny fare. It
was amazing how often that gave me free travel.
--
Walter Briscoe
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Old September 15th 08, 02:24 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Changeless bus passenger denied boarding

On Sep 15, 10:18 am, Walter Briscoe
wrote:
On Sunday morning, about 08.00,I was on a 21 to Lewisham at London
Bridge/Monument. A passenger boarded and tried to pay with a twenty
pound note. The driver had no change and nor did other passengers. The
passenger was made to get off the bus. I was horrified and complained,
this morning, at 0845 300 7000. The stop is not "Pay before you board".
It seems the operator should have issued a pay later chit.


If they did that it would be a scam that would be soon abused. Perhaps
the passenger should have had some common sense and changed the note
in a shop beforehand anyway.

B2003




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Old September 15th 08, 07:46 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Changeless bus passenger denied boarding

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 06:24:51 -0700 (PDT), Boltar
wrote:

If they did that it would be a scam that would be soon abused. Perhaps
the passenger should have had some common sense and changed the note
in a shop beforehand anyway.


Given that a bus is a mobile shop selling transport, I have never
quite understood why bus companies think it is the role of shops to
give change for them.

Neil

--
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Put my first name before the at to reply.
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Old September 15th 08, 07:52 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Changeless bus passenger denied boarding

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008, Simon wrote:

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 06:24:51 -0700 (PDT), Boltar
wrote:

On Sep 15, 10:18 am, Walter Briscoe
wrote:
On Sunday morning, about 08.00,I was on a 21 to Lewisham at London
Bridge/Monument. A passenger boarded and tried to pay with a twenty
pound note. The driver had no change and nor did other passengers. The
passenger was made to get off the bus. I was horrified and complained,
this morning, at 0845 300 7000. The stop is not "Pay before you board".
It seems the operator should have issued a pay later chit.


If they did that it would be a scam that would be soon abused. Perhaps
the passenger should have had some common sense and changed the note
in a shop beforehand anyway.


Shopkeepers are the bus companies bankers? They are paid by the bus
company for this service? The shop is open even if it exists? Perhaps
the bus company should give the drivers a reasonable float, after all
they do trust them with cash.

I agree that passengers should try to have the correct money but
sometimes plans fail.


This is, to my mind, a major hole in the payment arrangements for the
buses, and i believe i've ranted about this before. The problem is that
cash comes in doses of 10 or 20 pounds, as notes. You cannot get money
from a cash machine in any smaller quantity. Bus drivers may refuse these,
and you certainly can't use them in the little ticket machines at stops.
Thus, if you're not near an open shop, whether because you're somewhere
remote or it's late, you're a bit stuffed.

You're even stuffed if you have an oyster but no credit, because there's
no way to add credit to an oyster card outside station opening times. I've
been in a pickle trying to get home late at night on more than one
occasion due to this.

tom

--
Operate all mechanisms!
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Old September 16th 08, 01:41 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Changeless bus passenger denied boarding

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

The problem is that
cash comes in doses of 10 or 20 pounds, as notes. You cannot get
money from a cash machine in any smaller quantity.


Er, I regularly get cash in 5 notes from a cash machine (in Cambridge).

--
Colin Rosenstiel
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Old September 16th 08, 10:18 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Changeless bus passenger denied boarding

On Sep 15, 3:02 pm, Simon wrote:
Shopkeepers are the bus companies bankers? They are paid by the bus
company for this service? The shop is open even if it exists?
Perhaps the bus company should give the drivers a reasonable float,
after all they do trust them with cash.


I'm not saying buses should never give change but expecting a driver
to have enough change for 20 quid is perhaps optimistic. besides
which , its bloody annoying for the other passengers waiting trying to
board if the driver has to root around for loads of shrapnel because
some wally wants to pay with a large denomination note. If you think
I'm being unreasonable then go into a corner shop and see the reaction
you get if you try and buy a mars bar with a 50 quid note.

B2003


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Old September 16th 08, 10:20 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Changeless bus passenger denied boarding

On Sep 15, 7:52 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
This is, to my mind, a major hole in the payment arrangements for the
buses, and i believe i've ranted about this before. The problem is that
cash comes in doses of 10 or 20 pounds, as notes. You cannot get money
from a cash machine in any smaller quantity. Bus drivers may refuse these,
and you certainly can't use them in the little ticket machines at stops.
Thus, if you're not near an open shop, whether because you're somewhere
remote or it's late, you're a bit stuffed.


If someone has a high value note and no change (though to be honest
how many people knowing they're going to catch a bus later wouldn't
make sure they had some pound coins on them?) and the bus driver has
no change he should have the option to issue tickets for however many
journeys the note would pay for. The passenger can then either hand
over the whole note or get off and walk.

B2003




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