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Old September 2nd 20, 06:12 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default School Buses

Was walking past the stop on my way to the clinic this afternoon, and there
was a notice on it about "School Buses"

Which basically said "where we are running school buses, don't get on them
if you aren't a child going to school"

and I thought:

There are no school bus routes around here.

And then I saw buses going down the road with a sign in the front saying
"Not School Bus"

So it seems that they are designating some services on ordinary routes as
special school buses and are using this signage to tell you which are which

Haven't been out at the right time of day to gauge the frequency of these
designated buses yet




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Old September 2nd 20, 08:13 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default School Buses

tim... wrote:
Was walking past the stop on my way to the clinic this afternoon, and there
was a notice on it about "School Buses"

Which basically said "where we are running school buses, don't get on them
if you aren't a child going to school"

and I thought:

There are no school bus routes around here.

And then I saw buses going down the road with a sign in the front saying
"Not School Bus"

So it seems that they are designating some services on ordinary routes as
special school buses and are using this signage to tell you which are which


Correct. They'll allow more kids on those buses than passengers are allowed
on normal public buses.


Haven't been out at the right time of day to gauge the frequency of these
designated buses yet


Are they not just designating some normal scheduled buses as 'school'
buses? So they'll be like a cancelled service as far as the rest of us are
concerned.



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Old September 2nd 20, 08:50 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 47
Default School Buses

On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 20:13:51 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

tim... wrote:
Was walking past the stop on my way to the clinic this afternoon, and there
was a notice on it about "School Buses"

Which basically said "where we are running school buses, don't get on them
if you aren't a child going to school"

and I thought:

There are no school bus routes around here.

And then I saw buses going down the road with a sign in the front saying
"Not School Bus"

So it seems that they are designating some services on ordinary routes as
special school buses and are using this signage to tell you which are which


Correct. They'll allow more kids on those buses than passengers are allowed
on normal public buses.


Haven't been out at the right time of day to gauge the frequency of these
designated buses yet


Are they not just designating some normal scheduled buses as 'school'
buses? So they'll be like a cancelled service as far as the rest of us are
concerned.


I forget which program (probably Radio 4) when someone from TfL was
saying they were laying on several hundred extra "school buses". I did
wonder how they were sourcing them.

However, this
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...-a4534346.html
seems to suggest they are, indeed, just designating. Such buses can be
filled to normal capacity apparently.
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Old September 2nd 20, 08:53 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default School Buses

On Wed, 02 Sep 2020 21:50:46 +0100, Graham Harrison
wrote:

On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 20:13:51 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

tim... wrote:
Was walking past the stop on my way to the clinic this afternoon, and there
was a notice on it about "School Buses"

Which basically said "where we are running school buses, don't get on them
if you aren't a child going to school"

and I thought:

There are no school bus routes around here.

And then I saw buses going down the road with a sign in the front saying
"Not School Bus"

So it seems that they are designating some services on ordinary routes as
special school buses and are using this signage to tell you which are which


Correct. They'll allow more kids on those buses than passengers are allowed
on normal public buses.


Haven't been out at the right time of day to gauge the frequency of these
designated buses yet


Are they not just designating some normal scheduled buses as 'school'
buses? So they'll be like a cancelled service as far as the rest of us are
concerned.


I forget which program (probably Radio 4) when someone from TfL was
saying they were laying on several hundred extra "school buses". I did
wonder how they were sourcing them.

However, this
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...-a4534346.html
seems to suggest they are, indeed, just designating. Such buses can be
filled to normal capacity apparently.


Then again ......

https://www.mylondon.news/news/zone-...thats-18847596
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Old September 3rd 20, 09:02 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 9,994
Default School Buses

In message , at 20:13:51 on Wed, 2 Sep 2020,
Recliner remarked:

Are they not just designating some normal scheduled buses as 'school'
buses? So they'll be like a cancelled service as far as the rest of us are
concerned.


When I was in Nottingham the bus company went out of their way to *not*
schedule any useful public buses on routes to schools. The passengers
were more trouble than they were worth, apparently. So it fell on the
rent-a-wreck brigade to run the dedicated school buses.
--
Roland Perry


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Old September 4th 20, 08:55 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 24
Default School Buses

On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 08:24:11 +0000 (UTC), Lew 1
wrote:



Thanks, yes, I'd not thought of the further problem of the drivers
failing to display the correct card. He also answers the question of
where (some of?) the extra buses have come from.


Although haw can extra buses be shipped in when the same situation must
pertain everywhere else, except perhaps New Zealand?


Quite easy when everywhere except London, COVID has provided a neat excuse
for many bus operators to provide the bare minimum and pull services they
had long found bothersome to run anyway.

London is very much atypical when it comes to bus transport in the UK in
that it’s seen as a useful public service that benefits the city rather
than a poorly-subsidised after-thought.

Lew


I don't understand this. Commercial bus routes are just that,
commercial. If a service is bothersome you can simply stop running it,
having given the required notice, you don't need a pandemic as an
excuse. Many urban routes fit into this category.

Local authority supported services are different. The operator
provides what they're contracted to provide, which is why two buses an
hour passed my house throughout the lockdown with an average of less
than one passenger per journey. I can imagine that some LAs have
reduced services (if they have the power?) but the operators can't
just stop running 'inconvenient' journeys.

The few commercial services near me are back to full timetable, so
where were these bothersome trips that have been pulled?
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Old September 4th 20, 04:10 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default School Buses

Trolleybus wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 08:24:11 +0000 (UTC), Lew 1
wrote:



Thanks, yes, I'd not thought of the further problem of the drivers
failing to display the correct card. He also answers the question of
where (some of?) the extra buses have come from.


Although haw can extra buses be shipped in when the same situation must
pertain everywhere else, except perhaps New Zealand?


Quite easy when everywhere except London, COVID has provided a neat excuse
for many bus operators to provide the bare minimum and pull services they
had long found bothersome to run anyway.

London is very much atypical when it comes to bus transport in the UK in
that itÂ’s seen as a useful public service that benefits the city rather
than a poorly-subsidised after-thought.

Lew


I don't understand this. Commercial bus routes are just that,
commercial. If a service is bothersome you can simply stop running it,
having given the required notice, you don't need a pandemic as an
excuse. Many urban routes fit into this category.

Local authority supported services are different. The operator
provides what they're contracted to provide, which is why two buses an
hour passed my house throughout the lockdown with an average of less
than one passenger per journey. I can imagine that some LAs have
reduced services (if they have the power?) but the operators can't
just stop running 'inconvenient' journeys.

The few commercial services near me are back to full timetable, so
where were these bothersome trips that have been pulled?


Evening buses are the best example. In the Home Counties, you’re lucky if
any bus route runs after 5pm. They rely on the pensioners and their bus
passes during the day, but they don’t go out past 4, so the bus company
winds down.

But if I’m going to get a bus somewhere during the day, I also need to be
able to get a bus back after 5pm. There isn’t, so I can’t. Hence the bus
option isn’t available to me even in the part of the day where they are
running.

One of the great unforeseen consequences of the National bus pass was the
way that they became the only customer a bus company needed to cater for.
Ever since it came in, regular bus fares have skyrocketed because, well it
doesn’t affect the vast majority of riders who get on anyway so why not.

If you could make your money in the daytime out of pass-holders and not
need to bother serving other people paying cash fares but probably needing
a wider-ranging service to tempt them on... why would you?

This problem was recognised: Some of our local commercial routes began
having evening services subsidised by the local council where operators
cancelled their evening services. But because they went out to the cheapest
bidder, the route wasn’t run by the same bus company as the daytime and,
guess what? Return tickets were not valid!

Then even they were cut when the local council made more budget cuts.

When COVID struck, the first thing my local routes pulled was their already
scarce evening services. As timetables have been brought back up to
frequency... guess what? No more buses after 5pm - even on the routes that
did have a paltry late bus or two that ran if they felt like it.

They are now reforming their timetables based on current loadings. Since
those current loadings now exclude anyone in the sort of situation I state
above, it seems doubtful they’ll be coming back.

Outside of London and other major cities, buses in the UK are a sea of
disappointment and frustration which only serve as an almost cast-iron
reason why you should always use a car.

Lew

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Old September 5th 20, 07:30 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 4
Default School Buses



"Graham Harrison" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 20:13:51 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

tim... wrote:
Was walking past the stop on my way to the clinic this afternoon, and
there
was a notice on it about "School Buses"

Which basically said "where we are running school buses, don't get on
them
if you aren't a child going to school"

and I thought:

There are no school bus routes around here.

And then I saw buses going down the road with a sign in the front saying
"Not School Bus"

So it seems that they are designating some services on ordinary routes
as
special school buses and are using this signage to tell you which are
which


Correct. They'll allow more kids on those buses than passengers are
allowed
on normal public buses.


Haven't been out at the right time of day to gauge the frequency of
these
designated buses yet


Are they not just designating some normal scheduled buses as 'school'
buses? So they'll be like a cancelled service as far as the rest of us
are
concerned.


I forget which program (probably Radio 4) when someone from TfL was
saying they were laying on several hundred extra "school buses". I did
wonder how they were sourcing them.

However, this
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...-a4534346.html
seems to suggest they are, indeed, just designating. Such buses can be
filled to normal capacity apparently.


not normal capacity, as no standees to be allowed

If you can manage that with the average bunch of 12 years olds



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Old September 5th 20, 07:36 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 4
Default School Buses



"Recliner" wrote in message
...
Basil Jet wrote:


Maybe services have been cut back in those areas? But it is nevertheless
surprising that they were able to source so many extra buses.


OOI

Are random extra busses going to be automatically equipped with the
electronics to provide bus location data

or does that have to be specially added.





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Old September 5th 20, 10:45 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 24
Default School Buses

On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 16:10:32 +0000 (UTC), Lew 1
wrote:

Trolleybus wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 08:24:11 +0000 (UTC), Lew 1
wrote:



The few commercial services near me are back to full timetable, so
where were these bothersome trips that have been pulled?


Evening buses are the best example. In the Home Counties, you’re lucky if
any bus route runs after 5pm. They rely on the pensioners and their bus
passes during the day, but they don’t go out past 4, so the bus company
winds down.

But if I’m going to get a bus somewhere during the day, I also need to be
able to get a bus back after 5pm. There isn’t, so I can’t. Hence the bus
option isn’t available to me even in the part of the day where they are
running.

One of the great unforeseen consequences of the National bus pass was the
way that they became the only customer a bus company needed to cater for.
Ever since it came in, regular bus fares have skyrocketed because, well it
doesn’t affect the vast majority of riders who get on anyway so why not.

If you could make your money in the daytime out of pass-holders and not
need to bother serving other people paying cash fares but probably needing
a wider-ranging service to tempt them on... why would you?

This problem was recognised: Some of our local commercial routes began
having evening services subsidised by the local council where operators
cancelled their evening services. But because they went out to the cheapest
bidder, the route wasn’t run by the same bus company as the daytime and,
guess what? Return tickets were not valid!

Then even they were cut when the local council made more budget cuts.

When COVID struck, the first thing my local routes pulled was their already
scarce evening services. As timetables have been brought back up to
frequency... guess what? No more buses after 5pm - even on the routes that
did have a paltry late bus or two that ran if they felt like it.

They are now reforming their timetables based on current loadings. Since
those current loadings now exclude anyone in the sort of situation I state
above, it seems doubtful they’ll be coming back.

Outside of London and other major cities, buses in the UK are a sea of
disappointment and frustration which only serve as an almost cast-iron
reason why you should always use a car.

Lew

I agree with your overall view that buses outside London aren't what
they should be but I'm still not sure I agree with your opinion that
operators used Covid as an excuse to ditch 'bothersome' trips. You've
said that evening journeys are often LA-sponsored, so an operator
simply can't stop running them until the contract's up. Commercial
services, on the other hand, have always been at the whim of the
market. Nobody forced operators to run bothersome trips so they never
needed an excuse to stop running them.


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