https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/04/ryanair-plans-axe-domestic-routes/

Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.

The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted airport and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.

A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair’s use of so-called
“wet-leasing�, where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate services on
their behalf.

Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less than half
of Ryanair’s UK services to be run by “wet leased� aircraft.

Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft under a
“white list� approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22, according to
industry sources.

Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.

The CAA’s Paul Smith said at the time: “A UK airline with a significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft.�

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/04/ryanair-plans-axe-domestic-routes/

Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.


I'm sure EasyJet are rubbing their hands with glee

In message , at 08:26:10 on Thu, 4 Feb 2021,
Recliner remarked:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...lans-axe-domes
tic-routes/

Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.

The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted airport and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.

A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair’s use of so-called
“wet-leasing�, where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate services on
their behalf.

Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less than half
of Ryanair’s UK services to be run by “wet leased� aircraft.

Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft under a
“white list� approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22, according to
industry sources.

Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.

The CAA’s Paul Smith said at the time: “A UK airline with a significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft.�

Is the wet-leasing something to do with delays in delivery of 737Max, of
which they've reportedly got 210 on order?

Meanwhile, is this actually a symptom of a rift in the Open Skies
arrangements, because what they are left with is *all* flights having at
least one end in the EU, and no 3rd-country to 3rd-country flights?

[Ryanair's website is still offering flights to the listed countries,
though, eg Oslo £14.99 in October; but nothing internal - I must have
missed them scrapping those]
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:26:10 on Thu, 4 Feb 2021,
Recliner remarked:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...lans-axe-domes
tic-routes/

Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.

The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted airport and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.

A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair’s use of so-called
“wet-leasing�, where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate services on
their behalf.

Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less than half
of Ryanair’s UK services to be run by “wet leased� aircraft.

Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft under a
“white list� approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22, according to
industry sources.

Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.

The CAA’s Paul Smith said at the time: “A UK airline with a significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft.�

Is the wet-leasing something to do with delays in delivery of 737Max, of
which they've reportedly got 210 on order?

I suspect FR-UK is wet-leasing 738s from FR-Ireland. The CAA wants at least
half of FR-UK's non-EU flights to be on UK-registered planes. I don't think
it's anything to do with 737 MAX delays, as FR has plenty of 738s, more
than enough to meet current demand.


Meanwhile, is this actually a symptom of a rift in the Open Skies
arrangements, because what they are left with is *all* flights having at
least one end in the EU, and no 3rd-country to 3rd-country flights?

I'm not sure that EU airlines are still free to fly from the UK to non-EU
countries. Of course, an Irish airline is still able to fly from the UK to
any of the 27 EU countries.


[Ryanair's website is still offering flights to the listed countries,
though, eg Oslo £14.99 in October; but nothing internal - I must have
missed them scrapping those]

Maybe they were suspended due to lack of demand during the lockdown?

In message , at 10:54:24 on Thu, 4 Feb 2021,
Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:26:10 on Thu, 4 Feb 2021,
Recliner remarked:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...lans-axe-domes
tic-routes/

Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.

The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted airport and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.

A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair’s use of so-called
“wet-leasing�, where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate
services on
their behalf.

Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less than half
of Ryanair’s UK services to be run by “wet leased� aircraft.

Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft under a
“white list� approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22,
according to
industry sources.

Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.

The CAA’s Paul Smith said at the time: “A UK airline with a significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft.�

Is the wet-leasing something to do with delays in delivery of 737Max, of
which they've reportedly got 210 on order?

I suspect FR-UK is wet-leasing 738s from FR-Ireland. The CAA wants at least
half of FR-UK's non-EU flights to be on UK-registered planes. I don't think
it's anything to do with 737 MAX delays, as FR has plenty of 738s, more
than enough to meet current demand.

It's all a bit opaque to the traveller, who might assume that the only
airport "Ryanair" is operating from in the UK is Stansted.

But yes, Ryanair-Ireland is flying from Dublin to all their traditional
destinations in the UK on at least some days of the week, some months in
their schedule.

Meanwhile, is this actually a symptom of a rift in the Open Skies
arrangements, because what they are left with is *all* flights having at
least one end in the EU, and no 3rd-country to 3rd-country flights?

I'm not sure that EU airlines are still free to fly from the UK to non-EU
countries.

Yes, that's a possible candidate for the 'rift' (being 3rd-country to
3rd-country).

Of course, an Irish airline is still able to fly from the UK to
any of the 27 EU countries.

But how does one know when booking at Ryanair.com, which airline that
is?

[Ryanair's website is still offering flights to the listed countries,
though, eg Oslo £14.99 in October; but nothing internal - I must have
missed them scrapping those]

Maybe they were suspended due to lack of demand during the lockdown?

Probably, as are many of the Dublin-UK routes very patchy.
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:13:06 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 10:54:24 on Thu, 4 Feb 2021,
Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:26:10 on Thu, 4 Feb 2021,
Recliner remarked:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...lans-axe-domes
tic-routes/

Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.

The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted airport and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.

A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair’s use of so-called
“wet-leasing”, where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate
services on
their behalf.

Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less than half
of Ryanair’s UK services to be run by “wet leased” aircraft.

Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft under a
“white list” approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22,
according to
industry sources.

Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.

The CAA’s Paul Smith said at the time: “A UK airline with a significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft.”

Is the wet-leasing something to do with delays in delivery of 737Max, of
which they've reportedly got 210 on order?

I suspect FR-UK is wet-leasing 738s from FR-Ireland. The CAA wants at least
half of FR-UK's non-EU flights to be on UK-registered planes. I don't think
it's anything to do with 737 MAX delays, as FR has plenty of 738s, more
than enough to meet current demand.

It's all a bit opaque to the traveller, who might assume that the only
airport "Ryanair" is operating from in the UK is Stansted.

But yes, Ryanair-Ireland is flying from Dublin to all their traditional
destinations in the UK on at least some days of the week, some months in
their schedule.

Yes, I think it means that they are threatening to close all their UK bases except Stansted. Other UK cities will still
get flights from other, non-UK FR bases.

I don't know if it's up to date, but Wiki lists Belfast, Birmingham, Bournemouth, Bristol, East Midlands, Edinburgh,
Glasgow, Prestwick, Leeds-Bradford, Liverpool, Luton, Manchester and Stansted as UK bases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ryanair_destinations#List

So, FR is threatening to close all but one of those UK bases, with the cities served, if at all, by aircraft based
elsewhere.


Meanwhile, is this actually a symptom of a rift in the Open Skies
arrangements, because what they are left with is *all* flights having at
least one end in the EU, and no 3rd-country to 3rd-country flights?

I'm not sure that EU airlines are still free to fly from the UK to non-EU
countries.

Yes, that's a possible candidate for the 'rift' (being 3rd-country to
3rd-country).

Of course, an Irish airline is still able to fly from the UK to
any of the 27 EU countries.

But how does one know when booking at Ryanair.com, which airline that
is?

I don't suppose it matters to the traveller. A booking made in the UK is probably a contract with FR-UK, but the actual
flight may be on an FR 738 based outside the UK, as was always the case.


[Ryanair's website is still offering flights to the listed countries,
though, eg Oslo £14.99 in October; but nothing internal - I must have
missed them scrapping those]

Maybe they were suspended due to lack of demand during the lockdown?

Probably, as are many of the Dublin-UK routes very patchy.

In message , at 11:56:15 on
Thu, 4 Feb 2021, Recliner remarked:
On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:13:06 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 10:54:24 on Thu, 4 Feb 2021,
Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:26:10 on Thu, 4 Feb 2021,
Recliner remarked:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...lans-axe-domes
tic-routes/

Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.

The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted airport and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.

A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair’s use of so-called
“wet-leasing�, where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate
services on
their behalf.

Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less than half
of Ryanair’s UK services to be run by “wet leased� aircraft.

Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK
registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft under a
“white list� approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22,
according to
industry sources.

Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.

The CAA’s Paul Smith said at the time: “A UK airline with a significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft.�

Is the wet-leasing something to do with delays in delivery of 737Max, of
which they've reportedly got 210 on order?

I suspect FR-UK is wet-leasing 738s from FR-Ireland. The CAA wants at least
half of FR-UK's non-EU flights to be on UK-registered planes. I don't think
it's anything to do with 737 MAX delays, as FR has plenty of 738s, more
than enough to meet current demand.

It's all a bit opaque to the traveller, who might assume that the only
airport "Ryanair" is operating from in the UK is Stansted.

But yes, Ryanair-Ireland is flying from Dublin to all their traditional
destinations in the UK on at least some days of the week, some months in
their schedule.

Yes, I think it means that they are threatening to close all their UK
bases except Stansted.

Who is "they"? The prospect of Ryanair-UK being disjoint from
Ryanair-Eire has already been floated.

At the moment Ryanair-Stansted isn't running any UK internal flights.

Other UK cities will still get flights from other, non-UK FR bases.

I don't know if it's up to date, but Wiki lists Belfast, Birmingham,
Bournemouth, Bristol, East Midlands, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Prestwick,
Leeds-Bradford, Liverpool, Luton, Manchester and Stansted as UK bases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ryanair_destinations#List

So, FR is threatening to close all but one of those UK bases, with the
cities served, if at all, by aircraft based elsewhere.

Yes, I've already listed UK-airports-which-aren't-Stansted getting
flights from Dublin, but that's the only place they seem to be getting
them from.

Is there a transfer passenger market here - Flights from Stansted to
(say) Morocco suspended, but flights from various places to Dublin, then
Dublin to Morocco still running?

[For the purposes of this discussion I'm prepared to accept that Ryanair
won't guarantee such connections, let alone baggage transfer, in Dublin]
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 12:56:42 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 11:56:15 on
Thu, 4 Feb 2021, Recliner remarked:
On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:13:06 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 10:54:24 on Thu, 4 Feb 2021,
Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:26:10 on Thu, 4 Feb 2021,
Recliner remarked:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...lans-axe-domes
tic-routes/

Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.

The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted airport and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.

A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair’s use of so-called
“wet-leasing”, where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate
services on
their behalf.

Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less than half
of Ryanair’s UK services to be run by “wet leased” aircraft.

Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK
registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft under a
“white list” approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22,
according to
industry sources.

Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.

The CAA’s Paul Smith said at the time: “A UK airline with a significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft.”

Is the wet-leasing something to do with delays in delivery of 737Max, of
which they've reportedly got 210 on order?

I suspect FR-UK is wet-leasing 738s from FR-Ireland. The CAA wants at least
half of FR-UK's non-EU flights to be on UK-registered planes. I don't think
it's anything to do with 737 MAX delays, as FR has plenty of 738s, more
than enough to meet current demand.

It's all a bit opaque to the traveller, who might assume that the only
airport "Ryanair" is operating from in the UK is Stansted.

But yes, Ryanair-Ireland is flying from Dublin to all their traditional
destinations in the UK on at least some days of the week, some months in
their schedule.

Yes, I think it means that they are threatening to close all their UK
bases except Stansted.

Who is "they"? The prospect of Ryanair-UK being disjoint from
Ryanair-Eire has already been floated.

Ryanair corporate (ie, O'Leary). There will be little decision-making in FR-UK, but having those bases would generate
some UK jobs.



At the moment Ryanair-Stansted isn't running any UK internal flights.

Sure, it looks like they're all suspended for now, during the lockdown. FR doesn't run near-empty planes. I think, even
in good times, most UK domestic flights are marginal at best, as Flybe was the latest to prove.


Other UK cities will still get flights from other, non-UK FR bases.

I don't know if it's up to date, but Wiki lists Belfast, Birmingham,
Bournemouth, Bristol, East Midlands, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Prestwick,
Leeds-Bradford, Liverpool, Luton, Manchester and Stansted as UK bases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ryanair_destinations#List

So, FR is threatening to close all but one of those UK bases, with the
cities served, if at all, by aircraft based elsewhere.

Yes, I've already listed UK-airports-which-aren't-Stansted getting
flights from Dublin, but that's the only place they seem to be getting
them from.

That might change if the UK bases are closed.


Is there a transfer passenger market here - Flights from Stansted to
(say) Morocco suspended, but flights from various places to Dublin, then
Dublin to Morocco still running?

It's a long way round, so it would need to be very cheap. If there's a worthwhile market to such non-EU destinations, EZ
would be able to serve them more cost-effectively.


[For the purposes of this discussion I'm prepared to accept that Ryanair
won't guarantee such connections, let alone baggage transfer, in Dublin]

Yup, that goes without saying!

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 12:56:42 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:56:15 on
Thu, 4 Feb 2021, Recliner remarked:
On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:13:06 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 10:54:24 on Thu, 4 Feb 2021,
Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:26:10 on Thu, 4 Feb
2021,
Recliner remarked:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...lans-axe-domes
tic-routes/

Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on
Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services
from
Britain to non-EU countries.

The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted airport
and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.

A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over
pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair's use of so-called
"wet-leasing", where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate
services on
their behalf.

Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less
than half
of Ryanair's UK services to be run by "wet leased" aircraft.

Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK
registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft under
a
"white list" approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22,
according to
industry sources.

Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.

The CAA's Paul Smith said at the time: "A UK airline with a
significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft."

Is the wet-leasing something to do with delays in delivery of 737Max,
of
which they've reportedly got 210 on order?

I suspect FR-UK is wet-leasing 738s from FR-Ireland. The CAA wants at
least
half of FR-UK's non-EU flights to be on UK-registered planes. I don't
think
it's anything to do with 737 MAX delays, as FR has plenty of 738s, more
than enough to meet current demand.

It's all a bit opaque to the traveller, who might assume that the only
airport "Ryanair" is operating from in the UK is Stansted.

But yes, Ryanair-Ireland is flying from Dublin to all their traditional
destinations in the UK on at least some days of the week, some months in
their schedule.

Yes, I think it means that they are threatening to close all their UK
bases except Stansted.

Who is "they"? The prospect of Ryanair-UK being disjoint from
Ryanair-Eire has already been floated.

Ryanair corporate (ie, O'Leary). There will be little decision-making in
FR-UK, but having those bases would generate
some UK jobs.



At the moment Ryanair-Stansted isn't running any UK internal flights.

Sure, it looks like they're all suspended for now, during the lockdown. FR
doesn't run near-empty planes. I think, even
in good times, most UK domestic flights are marginal at best, as Flybe was
the latest to prove.

FlyBe operated from marginal airports

a regional network based around a genuine London airport has to be more
viable, even if not to every current (normal world) destination

tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 12:56:42 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:56:15 on
Thu, 4 Feb 2021, Recliner remarked:
On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:13:06 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 10:54:24 on Thu, 4 Feb 2021,
Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:26:10 on Thu, 4 Feb
2021,
Recliner remarked:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...lans-axe-domes
tic-routes/

Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on
Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services
from
Britain to non-EU countries.

The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted airport
and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.

A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over
pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair's use of so-called
"wet-leasing", where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate
services on
their behalf.

Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less
than half
of Ryanair's UK services to be run by "wet leased" aircraft.

Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK
registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft under
a
"white list" approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22,
according to
industry sources.

Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.

The CAA's Paul Smith said at the time: "A UK airline with a
significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft."

Is the wet-leasing something to do with delays in delivery of 737Max,
of
which they've reportedly got 210 on order?

I suspect FR-UK is wet-leasing 738s from FR-Ireland. The CAA wants at
least
half of FR-UK's non-EU flights to be on UK-registered planes. I don't
think
it's anything to do with 737 MAX delays, as FR has plenty of 738s, more
than enough to meet current demand.

It's all a bit opaque to the traveller, who might assume that the only
airport "Ryanair" is operating from in the UK is Stansted.

But yes, Ryanair-Ireland is flying from Dublin to all their traditional
destinations in the UK on at least some days of the week, some months in
their schedule.

Yes, I think it means that they are threatening to close all their UK
bases except Stansted.

Who is "they"? The prospect of Ryanair-UK being disjoint from
Ryanair-Eire has already been floated.

Ryanair corporate (ie, O'Leary). There will be little decision-making in
FR-UK, but having those bases would generate
some UK jobs.



At the moment Ryanair-Stansted isn't running any UK internal flights.

Sure, it looks like they're all suspended for now, during the lockdown. FR
doesn't run near-empty planes. I think, even
in good times, most UK domestic flights are marginal at best, as Flybe was
the latest to prove.

FlyBe operated from marginal airports

It also used to have LGW slots, but sold them on its way down the tubes.


a regional network based around a genuine London airport has to be more
viable, even if not to every current (normal world) destination

Yes, for sure. But FR is still apparently walking away from them,
suggesting that even London routes are not more than marginally profitable.