Test tracks
Recliner wrote:
Marland wrote: Recliner wrote: Marland wrote: There are more up to date ones which would have been a better choice such as this one from the cab of an S stock train under test. https://youtu.be/ZL8xZrY9SeU Thanks, that was interesting. From the conversation, the 4th rail test track is 4km long, and includes virtual stations and virtual tunnels. The train has to do 500 miles (800km) of testing, so a 100 cycles. One thing that strikes me from the various videos of the old Dalby test route is that it is mainly straight. As more trains like the S stock get constructed with full width connections between cars or even articulations that could be an achilles heel. The law of sod if you are testing something says it will be the bit that wasn’t stressed that shows up an unexpected snag. I know they have test rigs to repeatedly stress those connections to destruction, with more violent movement in all directions than you'd want to put a real train through. Real service often shows up problems which testing hasn't; the latest example is cracks in the yaw damper mountings of Northern's CAF units. Several units are out of traffic, the rest being visually checked daily, and some 319s are apparently being readied for a possible return to service. Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Test tracks
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Recliner wrote: Marland wrote: Recliner wrote: Marland wrote: There are more up to date ones which would have been a better choice such as this one from the cab of an S stock train under test. https://youtu.be/ZL8xZrY9SeU Thanks, that was interesting. From the conversation, the 4th rail test track is 4km long, and includes virtual stations and virtual tunnels. The train has to do 500 miles (800km) of testing, so a 100 cycles. One thing that strikes me from the various videos of the old Dalby test route is that it is mainly straight. As more trains like the S stock get constructed with full width connections between cars or even articulations that could be an achilles heel. The law of sod if you are testing something says it will be the bit that wasn’t stressed that shows up an unexpected snag. I know they have test rigs to repeatedly stress those connections to destruction, with more violent movement in all directions than you'd want to put a real train through. Real service often shows up problems which testing hasn't; the latest example is cracks in the yaw damper mountings of Northern's CAF units. Several units are out of traffic, the rest being visually checked daily, and some 319s are apparently being readied for a possible return to service. https://twitter.com/garethdennis/status/1382968339870408707?s=21 Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Test tracks
On 16/04/2021 10:47, Marland wrote:
Recliner wrote: Marland wrote: There are more up to date ones which would have been a better choice such as this one from the cab of an S stock train under test. https://youtu.be/ZL8xZrY9SeU Thanks, that was interesting. From the conversation, the 4th rail test track is 4km long, and includes virtual stations and virtual tunnels. The train has to do 500 miles (800km) of testing, so a 100 cycles. One thing that strikes me from the various videos of the old Dalby test route is that it is mainly straight. As more trains like the S stock get constructed with full width connections between cars or even articulations that could be an achilles heel. The law of sod if you are testing something says it will be the bit that wasn’t stressed that shows up an unexpected snag . Obviously the S stock has been in service long enough now around the LU system that they must have got it right in that case but there will be other stock in the future. I see plans for the Welsh based Global Centre For Rail Excellence were recently published and like the test tracks in the Czech Republic and Germany will have a continuous circuit available. so it could give Old Dalby competition . https://nation.cymru/news/plans-subm...ence-in-wales/ GH Only narrow gauge? -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
Test tracks
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Recliner wrote: Marland wrote: Recliner wrote: Marland wrote: There are more up to date ones which would have been a better choice such as this one from the cab of an S stock train under test. https://youtu.be/ZL8xZrY9SeU Thanks, that was interesting. From the conversation, the 4th rail test track is 4km long, and includes virtual stations and virtual tunnels. The train has to do 500 miles (800km) of testing, so a 100 cycles. One thing that strikes me from the various videos of the old Dalby test route is that it is mainly straight. As more trains like the S stock get constructed with full width connections between cars or even articulations that could be an achilles heel. The law of sod if you are testing something says it will be the bit that wasn’t stressed that shows up an unexpected snag. I know they have test rigs to repeatedly stress those connections to destruction, with more violent movement in all directions than you'd want to put a real train through. Real service often shows up problems which testing hasn't; the latest example is cracks in the yaw damper mountings of Northern's CAF units. Several units are out of traffic, the rest being visually checked daily, and some 319s are apparently being readied for a possible return to service. https://twitter.com/garethdennis/status/1382968339870408707?s=21 That looks like a pretty basic flaw that should have been found and fixed long ago, particularly as it's happened before, in Ireland! |
Test tracks
In message , at 11:26:45 on Fri, 16 Apr
2021, Recliner remarked: Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Recliner wrote: Marland wrote: Recliner wrote: Marland wrote: There are more up to date ones which would have been a better choice such as this one from the cab of an S stock train under test. https://youtu.be/ZL8xZrY9SeU Thanks, that was interesting. From the conversation, the 4th rail test track is 4km long, and includes virtual stations and virtual tunnels. The train has to do 500 miles (800km) of testing, so a 100 cycles. One thing that strikes me from the various videos of the old Dalby test route is that it is mainly straight. As more trains like the S stock get constructed with full width connections between cars or even articulations that could be an achilles heel. The law of sod if you are testing something says it will be the bit that wasn’t stressed that shows up an unexpected snag. I know they have test rigs to repeatedly stress those connections to destruction, with more violent movement in all directions than you'd want to put a real train through. Real service often shows up problems which testing hasn't; the latest example is cracks in the yaw damper mountings of Northern's CAF units. Several units are out of traffic, the rest being visually checked daily, and some 319s are apparently being readied for a possible return to service. https://twitter.com/garethdennis/status/1382968339870408707?s=21 That looks like a pretty basic flaw that should have been found and fixed long ago, particularly as it's happened before, in Ireland! Or similar failure modes on the Comet aircraft. Don't they teach this on the first week of engineering courses, any more? -- Roland Perry |
Test tracks
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:26:45 on Fri, 16 Apr 2021, Recliner remarked: Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Recliner wrote: Marland wrote: Recliner wrote: Marland wrote: There are more up to date ones which would have been a better choice such as this one from the cab of an S stock train under test. https://youtu.be/ZL8xZrY9SeU Thanks, that was interesting. From the conversation, the 4th rail test track is 4km long, and includes virtual stations and virtual tunnels. The train has to do 500 miles (800km) of testing, so a 100 cycles. One thing that strikes me from the various videos of the old Dalby test route is that it is mainly straight. As more trains like the S stock get constructed with full width connections between cars or even articulations that could be an achilles heel. The law of sod if you are testing something says it will be the bit that wasn’t stressed that shows up an unexpected snag. I know they have test rigs to repeatedly stress those connections to destruction, with more violent movement in all directions than you'd want to put a real train through. Real service often shows up problems which testing hasn't; the latest example is cracks in the yaw damper mountings of Northern's CAF units. Several units are out of traffic, the rest being visually checked daily, and some 319s are apparently being readied for a possible return to service. https://twitter.com/garethdennis/status/1382968339870408707?s=21 That looks like a pretty basic flaw that should have been found and fixed long ago, particularly as it's happened before, in Ireland! Or similar failure modes on the Comet aircraft. Don't they teach this on the first week of engineering courses, any more? It’s what happens as the result of “efficiency”. In days gone by there would be a core of long serving engineers in an organisation with the corporate memory of what not to do again. These days it’s fashionable to talk up changing jobs every few years and easing out the older experienced staff because they are expensive. The modern practice is to claim that everything can be captured in a specification or a standard. Unfortunately that’s not the case.... Many outfits are doomed to keep on repeating the same mistakes because of high staff turnover. |
Test tracks
In message , at 13:14:11 on Fri, 16 Apr
2021, Tweed remarked: That looks like a pretty basic flaw that should have been found and fixed long ago, particularly as it's happened before, in Ireland! Or similar failure modes on the Comet aircraft. Don't they teach this on the first week of engineering courses, any more? It’s what happens as the result of “efficiency”. In days gone by there would be a core of long serving engineers in an organisation with the corporate memory of what not to do again. These days it’s fashionable to talk up changing jobs every few years and easing out the older experienced staff because they are expensive. The modern practice is to claim that everything can be captured in a specification or a standard. Unfortunately that’s not the case.... Many outfits are doomed to keep on repeating the same mistakes because of high staff turnover. I agree that corporate memory is important, but proper engineers are taught universal memory - which can then be applied to whatever corporate they are working for this week. -- Roland Perry |
Test tracks
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:14:11 on Fri, 16 Apr 2021, Tweed remarked: That looks like a pretty basic flaw that should have been found and fixed long ago, particularly as it's happened before, in Ireland! Or similar failure modes on the Comet aircraft. Don't they teach this on the first week of engineering courses, any more? It’s what happens as the result of “efficiency”. In days gone by there would be a core of long serving engineers in an organisation with the corporate memory of what not to do again. These days it’s fashionable to talk up changing jobs every few years and easing out the older experienced staff because they are expensive. The modern practice is to claim that everything can be captured in a specification or a standard. Unfortunately that’s not the case.... Many outfits are doomed to keep on repeating the same mistakes because of high staff turnover. I agree that corporate memory is important, but proper engineers are taught universal memory - which can then be applied to whatever corporate they are working for this week. It would make for an extremely long degree course to impart the knowledge learnt from a career. |
Test tracks
On 16/04/2021 19:27, Tweed wrote:
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 13:14:11 on Fri, 16 Apr 2021, Tweed remarked: That looks like a pretty basic flaw that should have been found and fixed long ago, particularly as it's happened before, in Ireland! Or similar failure modes on the Comet aircraft. Don't they teach this on the first week of engineering courses, any more? It’s what happens as the result of “efficiency”. In days gone by there would be a core of long serving engineers in an organisation with the corporate memory of what not to do again. These days it’s fashionable to talk up changing jobs every few years and easing out the older experienced staff because they are expensive. The modern practice is to claim that everything can be captured in a specification or a standard. Unfortunately that’s not the case.... Many outfits are doomed to keep on repeating the same mistakes because of high staff turnover. I agree that corporate memory is important, but proper engineers are taught universal memory - which can then be applied to whatever corporate they are working for this week. It would make for an extremely long degree course to impart the knowledge learnt from a career. Absolutely. In technical areas corporate memory can be a judgement which is only learnt by years of experience which cannot be learnt in the classroom or from books and only by working with experienced elders can that experience be retained. Sack those elders and that knowledge is lost and can only be re-learnt. |
Test tracks
In message , at 18:27:34 on Fri, 16 Apr
2021, Tweed remarked: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 13:14:11 on Fri, 16 Apr 2021, Tweed remarked: That looks like a pretty basic flaw that should have been found and fixed long ago, particularly as it's happened before, in Ireland! Or similar failure modes on the Comet aircraft. Don't they teach this on the first week of engineering courses, any more? It’s what happens as the result of “efficiency”. In days gone by there would be a core of long serving engineers in an organisation with the corporate memory of what not to do again. These days it’s fashionable to talk up changing jobs every few years and easing out the older experienced staff because they are expensive. The modern practice is to claim that everything can be captured in a specification or a standard. Unfortunately that’s not the case.... Many outfits are doomed to keep on repeating the same mistakes because of high staff turnover. I agree that corporate memory is important, but proper engineers are taught universal memory - which can then be applied to whatever corporate they are working for this week. It would make for an extremely long degree course to impart the knowledge learnt from a career. Two different things. A degree course can plant a 'memory' that metal fatigue is "a thing", and encourage designing it out. A career during which someone discovers metal fatigue in a particular component of a particular assembly (and remembers that), has the disadvantage that first of all there first has to be a failure of that component, and secondly it may not be obvious simply from that memory that the failure mode could also occur in a different component of a different assembly. -- Roland Perry |
Test tracks
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Test tracks
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 18:27:34 -0000 (UTC), Tweed wrote:
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 13:14:11 on Fri, 16 Apr 2021, Tweed remarked: That looks like a pretty basic flaw that should have been found and fixed long ago, particularly as it's happened before, in Ireland! Or similar failure modes on the Comet aircraft. Don't they teach this on the first week of engineering courses, any more? Its what happens as the result of efficiency. In days gone by there would be a core of long serving engineers in an organisation with the corporate memory of what not to do again. These days its fashionable to talk up changing jobs every few years and easing out the older experienced staff because they are expensive. The modern practice is to claim that everything can be captured in a specification or a standard. Unfortunately thats not the case.... Many outfits are doomed to keep on repeating the same mistakes because of high staff turnover. I agree that corporate memory is important, but proper engineers are taught universal memory - which can then be applied to whatever corporate they are working for this week. It would make for an extremely long degree course to impart the knowledge learnt from a career. So what did you do at the end of your long - and no doubt- successful career to capture this institutional memory for future generations? Maybe create a few YouTube videos or setup a wiki? |
Test tracks
mechanic wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021 18:27:34 -0000 (UTC), Tweed wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 13:14:11 on Fri, 16 Apr 2021, Tweed remarked: That looks like a pretty basic flaw that should have been found and fixed long ago, particularly as it's happened before, in Ireland! Or similar failure modes on the Comet aircraft. Don't they teach this on the first week of engineering courses, any more? It´s what happens as the result of “efficiency”. In days gone by there would be a core of long serving engineers in an organisation with the corporate memory of what not to do again. These days it´s fashionable to talk up changing jobs every few years and easing out the older experienced staff because they are expensive. The modern practice is to claim that everything can be captured in a specification or a standard. Unfortunately that´s not the case.... Many outfits are doomed to keep on repeating the same mistakes because of high staff turnover. I agree that corporate memory is important, but proper engineers are taught universal memory - which can then be applied to whatever corporate they are working for this week. It would make for an extremely long degree course to impart the knowledge learnt from a career. So what did you do at the end of your long - and no doubt- successful career to capture this institutional memory for future generations? Maybe create a few YouTube videos or setup a wiki? We try, with varying degrees of success, to keep a mix of young middle aged and end of career staff. Hopefully the knowledge trickles down by working together. The young have someone to go to to ask, seek advice etc. The more mature staff provide invaluable input on review panels. That, especially, helps to avoid repeating past mistakes. |
LO lines to be named
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Recliner wrote: Tweed wrote: Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: MB wrote: On 11/04/2021 11:56, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Marked spaces and a kerbside supply post. Often not enough spaces for all residents then you get the complication if someone else parks in your space so you have park elsewhere. I wasn't thinking house-specific numbered spaces, but just marked car-length spaces with a charging point each. I still want to know what is to be done about cable theft. Presumably charger cables have some fairly thick copper conductors. I could see someone with insulated bolt cutters chopping their way down a street of plugged in cars in the dead of night. Does an alarm go off if the cable is chopped? https://www.fleetpoint.org/electric-vehicles-2/thieves-making-200-a-time-stealing-car-charging-cables/ That's talking about whole cables being stolen (presumably to be re-sold whole) by being unplugged (the're supposed to be locked in to both vehicle and charger); one of the suggested solutions is a padlock around the cable, which wouldn't prevent the theft-by-cutting suggested in this thread. Switch to aluminium conductors, which on a per weight basis are nearly as good as copper, and which don’t have nearly as much scrap value? -- Jeremy Double |
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Jeremy Double wrote:
I still want to know what is to be done about cable theft. Presumably charger cables have some fairly thick copper conductors. I could see someone with insulated bolt cutters chopping their way down a street of plugged in cars in the dead of night. Does an alarm go off if the cable is chopped? https://www.fleetpoint.org/electric-vehicles-2/thieves-making-200-a-time-stealing-car-charging-cables/ That's talking about whole cables being stolen (presumably to be re-sold whole) by being unplugged (the're supposed to be locked in to both vehicle and charger); one of the suggested solutions is a padlock around the cable, which wouldn't prevent the theft-by-cutting suggested in this thread. Switch to aluminium conductors, which on a per weight basis are nearly as good as copper, and which don’t have nearly as much scrap value? Does aluminium remain flexible enough or does it work harden? I would envisage problems with cables as strands break leading to a hotspot and then complete failure . GH |
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Jeremy Double wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Recliner wrote: Tweed wrote: Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: MB wrote: On 11/04/2021 11:56, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Marked spaces and a kerbside supply post. Often not enough spaces for all residents then you get the complication if someone else parks in your space so you have park elsewhere. I wasn't thinking house-specific numbered spaces, but just marked car-length spaces with a charging point each. I still want to know what is to be done about cable theft. Presumably charger cables have some fairly thick copper conductors. I could see someone with insulated bolt cutters chopping their way down a street of plugged in cars in the dead of night. Does an alarm go off if the cable is chopped? https://www.fleetpoint.org/electric-vehicles-2/thieves-making-200-a-time-stealing-car-charging-cables/ That's talking about whole cables being stolen (presumably to be re-sold whole) by being unplugged (the're supposed to be locked in to both vehicle and charger); one of the suggested solutions is a padlock around the cable, which wouldn't prevent the theft-by-cutting suggested in this thread. Switch to aluminium conductors, which on a per weight basis are nearly as good as copper, and which don’t have nearly as much scrap value? Railway cable thieves cut fibre-optic cables before realising they're worthless to them; a cut EV charging cable is just as useless whether the thief subsequently decides to leave the aluminium or not. Anna Noyd-Dryver |
LO lines to be named
Am 20.04.2021 um 11:46 schrieb Anna Noyd-Dryver:
Jeremy Double wrote: Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: That's talking about whole cables being stolen (presumably to be re-sold whole) by being unplugged (the're supposed to be locked in to both vehicle and charger); one of the suggested solutions is a padlock around the cable, which wouldn't prevent the theft-by-cutting suggested in this thread. Switch to aluminium conductors, which on a per weight basis are nearly as good as copper, and which don’t have nearly as much scrap value? Railway cable thieves cut fibre-optic cables before realising they're worthless to them; a cut EV charging cable is just as useless whether the thief subsequently decides to leave the aluminium or not. It's like with poisonous caterpillars: the one eaten caterpillar is dead anyway but the bird remembers and does not pick that species a second time. Specifically in a road full of EV charging cables, the thieves might destroy the first one, see that its aluminimu and call it quits before demolisching all cables in the road. |
LO lines to be named
On 20/04/2021 11:19, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 20.04.2021 um 11:46 schrieb Anna Noyd-Dryver: Jeremy Double wrote: Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: That's talking about whole cables being stolen (presumably to be re-sold whole) by being unplugged (the're supposed to be locked in to both vehicle and charger); one of the suggested solutions is a padlock around the cable, which wouldn't prevent the theft-by-cutting suggested in this thread. Switch to aluminium conductors, which on a per weight basis are nearly as good as copper, and which don’t have nearly as much scrap value? Railway cable thieves cut fibre-optic cables before realising they're worthless to them; a cut EV charging cable is just as useless whether the thief subsequently decides to leave the aluminium or not. It's like with poisonous caterpillars: the one eaten caterpillar is dead anyway but the bird remembers and does not pick that species a second time. Specifically in a road full of EV charging cables, the thieves might destroy the first one, see that its aluminimu and call it quits before demolisching all cables in the road. You are assuming that aluminium charging cables are feasible. I am unaware of aluminium being used where both high power and flexibility are required - despite the obvious potential savings on raw material costs for kettles, fan heaters, hair dryers, etc. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
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On 15/04/2021 02:09, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
The reasonably practical measure taken at Old Dalby is presumably not having staff walking at track level without an isolation. Anna Noyd-Dryver So what's being done to remove this hazard from the railway seeing how dangerous it is? Peter (Stroud, Glos) -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
LO lines to be named
Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 20.04.2021 um 11:46 schrieb Anna Noyd-Dryver: Jeremy Double wrote: Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: That's talking about whole cables being stolen (presumably to be re-sold whole) by being unplugged (the're supposed to be locked in to both vehicle and charger); one of the suggested solutions is a padlock around the cable, which wouldn't prevent the theft-by-cutting suggested in this thread. Switch to aluminium conductors, which on a per weight basis are nearly as good as copper, and which don’t have nearly as much scrap value? Railway cable thieves cut fibre-optic cables before realising they're worthless to them; a cut EV charging cable is just as useless whether the thief subsequently decides to leave the aluminium or not. It's like with poisonous caterpillars: the one eaten caterpillar is dead anyway but the bird remembers and does not pick that species a second time. Specifically in a road full of EV charging cables, the thieves might destroy the first one, see that its aluminimu and call it quits before demolisching all cables in the road. That only works if every cable is aluminium, rather than just some of them. For example, the presence of fibre optic signalling cables hasn't stopped the cable thieves trying to steal them... Anna Noyd-Dryver |
LO lines to be named
"Anna Noyd-Dryver" wrote in message
... It's like with poisonous caterpillars: the one eaten caterpillar is dead anyway but the bird remembers and does not pick that species a second time. We have some very thick blackbirds that just do not learn. My wife planted some crocuses. When they came up a year-and-a-bit ago, a blackbird had gone along and dug up each crocus shoot, thinking it was a juicy worm. It didn't try the first one, find it wasn't what it thought it was and abandon all the rest of the things that looked the same. No, it took out every single one of them - and left the evidence alongside. Grrr. This year it seems to be been a lot more sensible - or maybe the dunce blackbird didn't survive the winter. |
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