Alex Terrell wrote:
(Aidan Stanger) wrote in message ...
No, the shortage of paths is on the CTRL, as a lot more people are
expected to start using Eurostars once they run at high speeds all the
way.

They always say that. But lets assume passenger numbers treble. That
would fill six trains per hour.

You keep talking about filling the trains. I for one don't want to
travel on full trains, and unlike with aeroplanes the economics don't
require it.

50-70% sounds comfortable to me - it's still fuller than the average
car - and gives spare capacity to cover for breakdowns and peak days
without having to run extra trains.

100% full trains are not pleasant to travel on, especially if you're
alone.

Treble the passengers would be comfortable on 9 trains. The other 3
could serve destinations beyond London and Brussels. With CTRL, the
tunnel should be quicker than air for lots more origins/destinations.

Colin McKenzie
--
The great advantage of not trusting statistics is that
it leaves you free to believe the damned lies instead!

In message , at
14:39:30 on Sun, 15 Aug 2004, Colin McKenzie
remarked:
100% full trains are not pleasant to travel on, especially if you're
alone.

100% works OK on Eurostar, where everyone has an allocated seat (so you
can easily trump the folks who put their bag on the seat next to them
and glare at anyone who comes along), and where the seats are large
enough and spaced out enough that you can cope with the space allocated
to one.

OTOH, a 3+2 arranged WAGN 317 in the rush hour, loaded beyond 80%[1], is
quite a different kettle of fish!

[1] ie actually needing some people to sit three abreast on the "3"
side.
--
Roland Perry

Colin McKenzie wrote in
:


... With CTRL, the
tunnel should be quicker than air for lots more origins/destinations.

Colin McKenzie

Which destinations had you in mind? Even with CTRL it will still be the
wrong side of two hours, plus check-in, for both Paris and Brussels. You
might make a dent in the London - Rotterdam market but everywhere else
remains significantly more than than magic three hours from London. (I
can't find a figure for the London-Koln journey time but London-Amsterdam
is quoted at 3h 45m over the new Dutch high speed line. This isn't going
to create a massive modal shift or vast increase in the number of
passengers between London and Amsterdam).

David

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 19:43:19 +0000, David Jackman wrote:

Colin McKenzie wrote in
:


... With CTRL, the
tunnel should be quicker than air for lots more origins/destinations.

Colin McKenzie

Which destinations had you in mind? Even with CTRL it will still be the
wrong side of two hours, plus check-in, for both Paris and Brussels. You
might make a dent in the London - Rotterdam market but everywhere else
remains significantly more than than magic three hours from London.
(I can't find a figure for the London-Koln journey time but
London-Amsterdam is quoted at 3h 45m over the new Dutch high speed line.
This isn't going to create a massive modal shift or vast increase in
the number of passengers between London and Amsterdam).

People travel London-Edinburgh by train. Wouldn't you get enough for even
one an hour?

I'd like some long distance sleepers to be honest. Direct from London,
leave at night ~ 10PM, through tunnel, stop at calais, paris, then down to
Geneva, Milan, Rome, Naples, Bari, Brindisi, Lecce. Another one might be
Paris, Nice, Turin, Milan, Venice (or mestre and onto Triest and
Lubjania). An Iberian one to Paris, Bordeux, Barcelona, Madrid, Lisbon. A
Brussels, Amsterdam, Berlin, Warsaw one, Another to South Germany and
Austria. Etc.

How far can you travel in 10 hours? You can probably make Turin and
Berlin at least.

Is the tunnel used much at night? (leave London arorund 11 or midnight, so
midnight - 2AM)?

Paul Weaver wrote:

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 19:43:19 +0000, David Jackman wrote:


Colin McKenzie wrote in
:



... With CTRL, the
tunnel should be quicker than air for lots more origins/destinations.

Colin McKenzie

Which destinations had you in mind? Even with CTRL it will still be the
wrong side of two hours, plus check-in, for both Paris and Brussels. You
might make a dent in the London - Rotterdam market but everywhere else
remains significantly more than than magic three hours from London.
(I can't find a figure for the London-Koln journey time but
London-Amsterdam is quoted at 3h 45m over the new Dutch high speed line.
This isn't going to create a massive modal shift or vast increase in
the number of passengers between London and Amsterdam).


People travel London-Edinburgh by train. Wouldn't you get enough for even
one an hour?

I'd like some long distance sleepers to be honest. Direct from London,
leave at night ~ 10PM, through tunnel, stop at calais, paris, then down to
Geneva, Milan, Rome, Naples, Bari, Brindisi, Lecce. Another one might be
Paris, Nice, Turin, Milan, Venice (or mestre and onto Triest and
Lubjania). An Iberian one to Paris, Bordeux, Barcelona, Madrid, Lisbon. A
Brussels, Amsterdam, Berlin, Warsaw one, Another to South Germany and
Austria. Etc.

I would've thought long-distance sleeper services through the Tunnel
were a winner. Leave London in the evening (plenty of time to get from
most other places in the country) and wake up in the depths of Europe
without having to deal with getting to and from airports and exhausting
yourself during the day (or at some horrible time of morning if it's a
cheap airline!) You could essentially "save" a day's travelling.

How far can you travel in 10 hours? You can probably make Turin and
Berlin at least.

London to Milan is currently around 12 hours with changes at Paris and
Lausanne or Geneva so I think that could be a 10 hour destination.
London to Nice is already a 10 hour journey via Paris so that would make
an easy high-speed sleeper service.
London to Barcelona is around 12 hours changing at Lille and Perpignan;
that would be a problem as it is a Talgo service from Perpignan but you
could run the sleeper as far as Perpignan for the moment.
London to Berlin is currently a 12-hour journey travelling overnight
between Brussels and Wolfsburg, with connections either side. A direct
train might make it in 11 hours. (about an hour between connections at
Brussels but much less at Wolfsburg)

Is the tunnel used much at night? (leave London arorund 11 or midnight, so
midnight - 2AM)?

I think freight trains use it a lot at night so pathing through the
tunnel might be quite slow if it's between freights. It also depends if
any of these freights use the CTRL, as that would also slow down sleeper
services.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...
Paul Weaver wrote:

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 19:43:19 +0000, David Jackman wrote:


Colin McKenzie wrote in
:



... With CTRL, the
tunnel should be quicker than air for lots more origins/destinations.

Colin McKenzie

Which destinations had you in mind? Even with CTRL it will still be the
wrong side of two hours, plus check-in, for both Paris and Brussels. You
might make a dent in the London - Rotterdam market but everywhere else
remains significantly more than than magic three hours from London.
(I can't find a figure for the London-Koln journey time but
London-Amsterdam is quoted at 3h 45m over the new Dutch high speed line.
This isn't going to create a massive modal shift or vast increase in
the number of passengers between London and Amsterdam).


People travel London-Edinburgh by train. Wouldn't you get enough for
even
one an hour?

I'd like some long distance sleepers to be honest. Direct from London,
leave at night ~ 10PM, through tunnel, stop at calais, paris, then down
to
Geneva, Milan, Rome, Naples, Bari, Brindisi, Lecce. Another one might be
Paris, Nice, Turin, Milan, Venice (or mestre and onto Triest and
Lubjania). An Iberian one to Paris, Bordeux, Barcelona, Madrid, Lisbon.
A
Brussels, Amsterdam, Berlin, Warsaw one, Another to South Germany and
Austria. Etc.

I would've thought long-distance sleeper services through the Tunnel
were a winner. Leave London in the evening (plenty of time to get from
most other places in the country) and wake up in the depths of Europe
without having to deal with getting to and from airports and exhausting
yourself during the day (or at some horrible time of morning if it's a
cheap airline!) You could essentially "save" a day's travelling.

How far can you travel in 10 hours? You can probably make Turin and
Berlin at least.

London to Milan is currently around 12 hours with changes at Paris and
Lausanne or Geneva so I think that could be a 10 hour destination.
London to Nice is already a 10 hour journey via Paris so that would make
an easy high-speed sleeper service.
London to Barcelona is around 12 hours changing at Lille and Perpignan;
that would be a problem as it is a Talgo service from Perpignan but you
could run the sleeper as far as Perpignan for the moment.
London to Berlin is currently a 12-hour journey travelling overnight
between Brussels and Wolfsburg, with connections either side. A direct
train might make it in 11 hours. (about an hour between connections at
Brussels but much less at Wolfsburg)

London to Munich is another that could be added to this list, currently
takes 10h30m to 14h30m depending on connections.
--
Cheers, Steve.
Change from jealous to sad to reply.

Dave Arquati wrote:

I would've thought long-distance sleeper services through the Tunnel
were a winner.

It's not the Government's job to subsidise your 'hotel' bills.

--
confguide.com - the conference guide

"david stevenson" wrote in message
...
Dave Arquati wrote:

I would've thought long-distance sleeper services through the Tunnel
were a winner.

It's not the Government's job to subsidise your 'hotel' bills.


I don't see how that's what was being suggested. I can see how sleeper
trains could be very popular - the idea of being able to get on a train in
central London at 10pm and waking up in Rome the following morning not only
has a certain romance, it could also be very practical. The ability to
travel without losing half a day of either work or a holiday hanging around
in airports could be very useful.

Jonn