(Neil Williams) wrote in message ...
IMO, the best solution for the Oldham Loop, for example, is not trams,
but 25kV overhead line and new, high-acceleration heavy rail EMUs to
form a German-style S-Bahn. The trams have their place, but it is not
in taking over a perfectly good heavy rail system, increasing fares
and slowing journeys. It is also not (in the case of Eccles) in
operating routes that are substantially faster by bus!

We seem to have a very strange attitude to city mass transport in this
country. In most other western countries (and the old USSR) a city the size
of manchester would have had its own proper underground system, never mind
some cut price tram system. The fact that it doesn't and neither do huge
connabations such as Birmingham is frankly laughable. Somehow Newcastle
managed to get one when the bean counters weren't concentrating for a moment
back in the 70s but other than that , the tinpot system in glasgow and of
course LU, this country is a joke for heavy mass transit in cities. No doubt
the usual cost excuses would be wheeled out if this was brought up with the
D.O.T but if they can afford to build a new lines in Uzbekistan:

http://www.urbanrail.net/as/tosh/tashkent.htm

for example I'm damn sure we can too.

B2003

Cheeky wrote:

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 23:21:43 -0400, Stephen Farrow
wrote:


Agreed. Although even half-decent DMUs would improve services on the
Oldham loop....

Though they would not, in themselves, solve the location problems at Mumps and Werneth stations.

True... they are not ideally located for the centre. However it is
debatable whether a slower, more expensive service from Manchester to
Oldham would be an improvement either....

Well, the frequency (10 trams per hour into Manchester from Oldham) would certainly be an
improvement. There's a lot of support for Metrolink in Oldham.

--
Stephen


How about a movie? They're showing them in theatres now. I hear it's like watching
a video with a bunch of strangers and a sticky floor.

(Boltar) wrote in message . com...
(Neil Williams) wrote in message ...
IMO, the best solution for the Oldham Loop, for example, is not trams,
but 25kV overhead line and new, high-acceleration heavy rail EMUs to
form a German-style S-Bahn. The trams have their place, but it is not
in taking over a perfectly good heavy rail system, increasing fares
and slowing journeys. It is also not (in the case of Eccles) in
operating routes that are substantially faster by bus!

We seem to have a very strange attitude to city mass transport in this
country. In most other western countries (and the old USSR) a city the size
of manchester would have had its own proper underground system, never mind
some cut price tram system. The fact that it doesn't and neither do huge
connabations such as Birmingham is frankly laughable. Somehow Newcastle
managed to get one when the bean counters weren't concentrating for a moment
back in the 70s but other than that , the tinpot system in glasgow and of
course LU, this country is a joke for heavy mass transit in cities. No doubt
the usual cost excuses would be wheeled out if this was brought up with the
D.O.T but if they can afford to build a new lines in Uzbekistan:

http://www.urbanrail.net/as/tosh/tashkent.htm

for example I'm damn sure we can too.

While I broadly agree with your sentiments, it ought to be pointed out
that land prices in Uzbekistan are not readily comparable to those in
any British city. I would guess that the balance of state power vs
private landowners' rights is probably more in favour of the state
there, too (Sufficiently delicately phrased, I hope ).

--
Larry Lard
Replies to group please

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 04:39:30 -0400, Stephen Farrow
wrote:



Cheeky wrote:

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 23:21:43 -0400, Stephen Farrow
wrote:


Agreed. Although even half-decent DMUs would improve services on the
Oldham loop....

Though they would not, in themselves, solve the location problems at Mumps and Werneth stations.

True... they are not ideally located for the centre. However it is
debatable whether a slower, more expensive service from Manchester to
Oldham would be an improvement either....

Well, the frequency (10 trams per hour into Manchester from Oldham) would certainly be an
improvement. There's a lot of support for Metrolink in Oldham.

Even those who currently use the train with an integrated bus/rail
season ticket which won't be valid on Metrolink....? Seriously - I
leave near the Altrincham line and rarely use it as it's so bloody
expensive (even compared to Stagecoach!) and not integrated into the
other PT modes.
--

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On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:21:15 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 21:31:08 +0100, Cheeky wrote:

Even those who currently use the train with an integrated bus/rail
season ticket which won't be valid on Metrolink....? Seriously - I
leave near the Altrincham line and rarely use it as it's so bloody
expensive (even compared to Stagecoach!) and not integrated into the
other PT modes.

I understand that part of the Phase 3 contract was to revamp
completely the PTE-sponsored season ticketing scheme to include
Metrolink in some way.

This would probably increase the cost of the tickets, but I suspect,
with that in mind, some kind of Merseyside or London-like zonal scheme
may well have resulted.

Neil

Thanks for the info - that's interesting, Neil. I'd imagine it would
increase the County Card costs but as you say it couls be off-set by a
zonal system which, in addition to those you listed, WYPTE also use...
--

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Cheeky wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 04:39:30 -0400, Stephen Farrow
wrote:



Cheeky wrote:

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 23:21:43 -0400, Stephen Farrow
wrote:


Agreed. Although even half-decent DMUs would improve services on the
Oldham loop....

Though they would not, in themselves, solve the location problems at Mumps and Werneth stations.

True... they are not ideally located for the centre. However it is
debatable whether a slower, more expensive service from Manchester to
Oldham would be an improvement either....

Well, the frequency (10 trams per hour into Manchester from Oldham) would certainly be an
improvement. There's a lot of support for Metrolink in Oldham.

Even those who currently use the train with an integrated bus/rail
season ticket which won't be valid on Metrolink....?

There's not all that much traffic interchanging between buses and
trains at Mumps, partly because pedestrian access to the railway
station is so poor.

Stephen

On 23 Sep 2004 15:59:21 -0700, (Stephen
Farrow) wrote:


Even those who currently use the train with an integrated bus/rail
season ticket which won't be valid on Metrolink....?

There's not all that much traffic interchanging between buses and
trains at Mumps, partly because pedestrian access to the railway
station is so poor.

Stephen

Noted... I was more making the point that the "integrated" ticket at
present isn't valid on metrolink (except between GMEX, Piccadilly and
Victoria) and I querying whether they'd be able to use them on the
loop line after conversion...
--

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