Anybody see the article about Oyster on BBC London news at 10?

Apparently TfL say they want to wait until after the prices go up next year
before introducing capping "in order to not confuse customers".

JB wrote:
Anybody see the article about Oyster on BBC London news at 10?

Apparently TfL say they want to wait until after the prices go up next year
before introducing capping "in order to not confuse customers".

Fair enough; it's almost November after all, and the new fares are quite
different on Oyster.

However someone else said recently that the Oyster website says there
are no definite plans to introduce it at any point soon.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"JB" wrote in message
...
Anybody see the article about Oyster on BBC London news at 10?

Apparently TfL say they want to wait until after the prices go up next
year
before introducing capping "in order to not confuse customers".


AKA screw the punter for as much as we can while we can get away with it.

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 23:09:58 +0100, "Jonathan Davies"
wrote:

"JB" wrote in message
...
Anybody see the article about Oyster on BBC London news at 10?

Apparently TfL say they want to wait until after the prices go up next
year
before introducing capping "in order to not confuse customers".


AKA screw the punter for as much as we can while we can get away with it.

while I understand the cynicism the fare changes next year will make
capping much more complex [1]. It is no surprise that it is delayed if
TfL keep changing the fares structure that the software and card logic
has to understand.

I think we'll be very lucky to see anything emerge on capping by May of
next year - and that's simply my guess.

[1] e.g. three different concepts of what "Peak" and "off peak" means -
bus pre-pay, tube pre-pay and then one day travelcard / lt card off
peak.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:27:49 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:

while I understand the cynicism the fare changes next year will make
capping much more complex [1]. It is no surprise that it is delayed if
TfL keep changing the fares structure that the software and card logic
has to understand.

I think we'll be very lucky to see anything emerge on capping by May of
next year - and that's simply my guess.

[1] e.g. three different concepts of what "Peak" and "off peak" means -
bus pre-pay, tube pre-pay and then one day travelcard / lt card off
peak.

The manufacturers were quoted on that news program as saying that the
capping could have been put in place on day 1, and TFL were unable to give
any reason why it hadn't been done (They refused to appear on that report
or issue any statement).

Steve

"Steve Peake" wrote ...


(They refused to appear on that report or issue any statement).


Well they issued one, but it was just a useless "look how well were doing
folks" statement.

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:19:22 GMT, Steve Peake
wrote:

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:27:49 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:

while I understand the cynicism the fare changes next year will make
capping much more complex [1]. It is no surprise that it is delayed if
TfL keep changing the fares structure that the software and card logic
has to understand.

I think we'll be very lucky to see anything emerge on capping by May of
next year - and that's simply my guess.

[1] e.g. three different concepts of what "Peak" and "off peak" means -
bus pre-pay, tube pre-pay and then one day travelcard / lt card off
peak.

The manufacturers were quoted on that news program as saying that the
capping could have been put in place on day 1, and TFL were unable to give
any reason why it hadn't been done (They refused to appear on that report
or issue any statement).

I didn't see the news report but

a) I am amazed that Transys or any part of the consortium who make a
statement like that. They must be very ****ed off to have to resort to
that tactic or else they've made an error.
b) I am not remotely surprised that TfL would refuse to enter into a
possible argument on the airwaves
c) I expect there will be an argument going on behind close doors given
(a).

I think you'd also find that the manufacturer's view of what capping
would be and what TfL would want on day 1 are at opposite ends of the
spectrum. I've heard it all before - "oh yes we can do "x" on such and
such a date". When you then ask basic questions about how it would work
you find that the proposal being offered would not work in a way that
was remotely satisfactory from a customer, technical or financial
viewpoint.

Ticketing systems are far too complex and have too much potential to
cause huge public complaints that to stick some slapdash solution into
service too quickly would be suicide for TfL. I would also fully accept
that it would be good if the public were told what was going on and when
a solution can realistically be put into service.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...


I didn't see the news report but

a) I am amazed that Transys or any part of the consortium who make a
statement like that. They must be very ****ed off to have to resort to
that tactic or else they've made an error.
b) I am not remotely surprised that TfL would refuse to enter into a
possible argument on the airwaves
c) I expect there will be an argument going on behind close doors given
(a).

I think you'd also find that the manufacturer's view of what capping
would be and what TfL would want on day 1 are at opposite ends of the
spectrum. I've heard it all before - "oh yes we can do "x" on such and
such a date". When you then ask basic questions about how it would work
you find that the proposal being offered would not work in a way that
was remotely satisfactory from a customer, technical or financial
viewpoint.



According to the mayor there are 'no technical obstacles' to introduce fair
capping, and the only issue is of timing and waiting for people to
understand the new fares. But as the whole capping process is automated I
find such reasoning odd. Their phased approach may also explain why takeup
of pre-pay is below what they expected.

Taken from the GLA website (
http://mqt.london.gov.uk//public/question.do?id=8900 ) :

Why is it taking so long to establish a capping system on Oyster cards so
that people pay the best fare for the journey, such as a one day travel card
rather than the cost of several individual journeys? What is the current
timetable for smart pre-pay?

Answer by Ken Livingstone (2nd Term)
There are no technical obstacles to introducing the capping features of
Oyster.The introduction of Oyster has been successful because features have
been introduced in a phased way. This ensures that features work as expected
and are well understood by customers.Pre Pay on the bus network was only
introduced in May 2004. The next significant feature to be introduced will
be weekday, peak/off peak pricing in January 2005. Once TfL are confident
that peak/off peak pricing and the new 2005 fares are well understood, they
plan to introduce capping.

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:19:22 GMT, Steve Peake wrote:

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:27:49 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:

while I understand the cynicism the fare changes next year will make
capping much more complex [1]. It is no surprise that it is delayed if
TfL keep changing the fares structure that the software and card logic
has to understand.

I think we'll be very lucky to see anything emerge on capping by May of
next year - and that's simply my guess.

[1] e.g. three different concepts of what "Peak" and "off peak" means -
bus pre-pay, tube pre-pay and then one day travelcard / lt card off
peak.

The manufacturers were quoted on that news program as saying that the
capping could have been put in place on day 1, and TFL were unable to give
any reason why it hadn't been done (They refused to appear on that report
or issue any statement).

For capping to have worked "on day 1", Oyster would have to have been fully
functional on buses "on day 1", and the regulars on this group know all about
the teething problems of that rollout. I suspect the capping rollout will not
be as trouble-free as the above glib statement suggests.

"Marc Brett" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:19:22 GMT, Steve Peake
wrote:

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:27:49 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:

while I understand the cynicism the fare changes next year will make
capping much more complex [1]. It is no surprise that it is delayed if
TfL keep changing the fares structure that the software and card logic
has to understand.

I think we'll be very lucky to see anything emerge on capping by May of
next year - and that's simply my guess.

[1] e.g. three different concepts of what "Peak" and "off peak" means -
bus pre-pay, tube pre-pay and then one day travelcard / lt card off
peak.

The manufacturers were quoted on that news program as saying that the
capping could have been put in place on day 1, and TFL were unable to
give
any reason why it hadn't been done (They refused to appear on that report
or issue any statement).

For capping to have worked "on day 1", Oyster would have to have been
fully
functional on buses "on day 1", and the regulars on this group know all
about
the teething problems of that rollout. I suspect the capping rollout will
not
be as trouble-free as the above glib statement suggests.


Sounds like a typical Transys reponse though, sadly.

They were trying to blame other contractors and existing, agreed book on
procedures for the reason why several gates had not been repaired for over
12 hours yesterday.