In message , Richard J.
writes

Paul Terry wrote:

http://www.londontransport.co.uk/tfl.../marketone.pdf

... it is not wonderfully detailed, but it does show that crossing
point south of Green Lanes.

But is that just luck? The map is wrong in other areas, for example the
Jubilee Line between Baker Street and Bond Street, or DLR at Bank.

"Not wonderfully detailed" was not the best description - it would be
fairer to say that there are quite a few approximations! I don't think
there is anything much better to be found on the WWW, though.

I haven't yet found a fully accurate map. The nearest I have is an old
(1956) Bartholemew's Central London Atlas-Guide, but of course that's
now very out of date. The .pdf street maps in the TfL Journey Planner
also appear to be quite accurate, though it can be tricky to get it to
display the one you want.

Unless I'm looking at the wrong ones, they don't show tube-line routes.

I have never seen one which shows the two sharp double-bends on the
Piccadilly Line east of South Kensington.

My 1948 Bartholomew's Greater London Reference Atlas shows it very
clearly at 4" to the mile - but I see that tube lines are not shown in
the 1961 edition of the same atlas.

--
Paul Terry

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message , Richard J.
writes

I have never seen one which shows the two sharp
double-bends on the Piccadilly Line east of South Kensington.

My 1948 Bartholomew's Greater London Reference Atlas
shows it very clearly at 4" to the mile - but I see that tube
lines are not shown in the 1961 edition of the same atlas.

.... not shown where they stay beneath roads, but shown elsewhere, eg the
Piccadilly between Russell Sq and KX, or the Northern from Waterloo to
Kennington.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Paul Terry wrote:
The .pdf street maps in the
TfL Journey Planner also appear to be quite accurate, though it
can be tricky to get it to display the one you want.

Unless I'm looking at the wrong ones, they don't show tube-line
routes.

You have to devise a route that uses the tube line in question. For
example a route from postcode W1G 6BW (The London Clinic) to Southwark
will involve either walk-tube or walk-bus-tube, and in all cases the
tube is the Jubilee Line from Baker Street. If you view the details of
any of these routes and click on "start map" for the initial walk, it
will show not only the walking route but the subsequent Jubilee Line
route passing near Regent's Park station.

I have never seen one which shows the two sharp double-bends on the
Piccadilly Line east of South Kensington.

My 1948 Bartholomew's Greater London Reference Atlas shows it very
clearly at 4" to the mile

Interesting! My Bartholemew's of 1956 (3" to the mile) shows a left
bend after South Ken, then a straight north-easterly run (not following
the road pattern) to a second left-hander to align with Brompton Road,
then a right-hander following the curve of Brompton Road by the Oratory.
If yours shows the correct left-right-left-right sequence, which roads
does it run under?
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

In message , Richard J.
writes

TfL journey planner maps

You have to devise a route that uses the tube line in question.

Ah, thanks. It is interesting to see the route of the Piccadilly at
South Ken if you enter something like Onslow Square to Knightsbridge.

Interesting! My Bartholemew's of 1956 (3" to the mile) shows a left
bend after South Ken, then a straight north-easterly run (not following
the road pattern) to a second left-hander to align with Brompton Road,
then a right-hander following the curve of Brompton Road by the Oratory.
If yours shows the correct left-right-left-right sequence, which roads
does it run under?

No, sorry, it doesn't. This has come up before, as I recall.

I think the second bend (following Brompton Road) is correct but the
section before that is wrong. I have had a look at numerous early
20th-century maps, and most follow Bartholomew. Some of the Bacon maps
show a tightly curved exit from the station, so that the line runs
beneath and across Thurloe Square - but I think that is also wrong,
since the position shown would produce tightly curved platforms.

I suspect the most likely route is that shown by the about Journey
Planner map, except that the Piccadilly lies directly beneath the
District line rather than a little to the south of it.

The reason is not only that the shape of the reverse curves seems right,
but also the fact that the triangular site above the first curve (i.e.
south of South Terrace) was a riding school at the end of the 19th
century. That would doubtless have made it much easier and cheaper to
obtain a wayleave for this one section of line that was not directly
beneath a road or railway, rather than having to pay owners for
tunnelling beneath multiple private properties. (The riding school is
marked as "works" on later maps, after the Piccadilly was built).

--
Paul Terry

Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Richard J.
writes

TfL journey planner maps

You have to devise a route that uses the tube line in question.


Ah, thanks. It is interesting to see the route of the Piccadilly at
South Ken if you enter something like Onslow Square to Knightsbridge.

(snip)

Definitely interesting. Do those maps get deleted from TfL's server a
certain time after they've been generated? Otherwise you can paste the URL:
http://www.journeyplanner.org/user/F...4186238D2B.pdf


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave Arquati wrote:
Paul Terry wrote:
In message ,
Richard J. writes

TfL journey planner maps

You have to devise a route that uses the tube line in question.


Ah, thanks. It is interesting to see the route of the Piccadilly at
South Ken if you enter something like Onslow Square to
Knightsbridge.

(snip)

Definitely interesting. Do those maps get deleted from TfL's server
a certain time after they've been generated? Otherwise you can
paste the URL:

http://www.journeyplanner.org/user/F...4186238D2B.pdf

That defaults to an incomplete version of the JP homepage, so I guess
they do get deleted quite quickly.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)