Walking past Alexandra Palace station this afternoon, I noticed that
the standalone Oyster reader (on the pavement, next to the outdoor
ticket machine) has had its neoprene jacket removed, and was inviting
passengers to touch in or out of the station, and had an orange LED
lit.

I can't see any mention on the TfL or First Capital Connect website
that PAYG is now valid from this station - does the working reader
mean that it probably is, but they've just not told anyone about it
yet?

(I'd have tried it out for myself, but was on my way to the park...)

In message
, at
09:56:28 on Tue, 11 Aug 2009, martin
remarked:
Walking past Alexandra Palace station this afternoon, I noticed that
the standalone Oyster reader (on the pavement, next to the outdoor
ticket machine) has had its neoprene jacket removed, and was inviting
passengers to touch in or out of the station, and had an orange LED
lit.

I can't see any mention on the TfL or First Capital Connect website
that PAYG is now valid from this station - does the working reader
mean that it probably is, but they've just not told anyone about it
yet?

Why does it have to active for PAYG, what about only for travelcards on
Oyster? (Or does the presence of an Oyster reader *always* mean PAYG is
allowed?)
--
Roland Perry

On Aug 11, 6:08*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
09:56:28 on Tue, 11 Aug 2009, martin
remarked:

Walking past Alexandra Palace station this afternoon, I noticed that
the standalone Oyster reader (on the pavement, next to the outdoor
ticket machine) has had its neoprene jacket removed, and was inviting
passengers to touch in or out of the station, and had an orange LED
lit.

I can't see any mention on the TfL or First Capital Connect website
that PAYG is now valid from this station - does the working reader
mean that it probably is, but they've just not told anyone about it
yet?

Why does it have to active for PAYG, what about only for travelcards on
Oyster? (Or does the presence of an Oyster reader *always* mean PAYG is
allowed?)

a) Travelcard users don't need to touch in, so providing a touch-point
for them (other than to get through barriers) would be pointless.

b) the presence of an Oyster reader doesn't mean PAYG is allowed.

c) however, if someone were to touch their PAYG Oyster card in at Ally
Pally, and it were to beep in a 'normal' fashion', flash green and
then charge them for a PAYG journey, then there's no way in hell FCC
could get away with penalising them for travelling without a valid
ticket.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On 11 Aug, 18:14, John B wrote:
On Aug 11, 6:08*pm, Roland Perry wrote:





In message
, at
09:56:28 on Tue, 11 Aug 2009, martin
remarked:

Walking past Alexandra Palace station this afternoon, I noticed that
the standalone Oyster reader (on the pavement, next to the outdoor
ticket machine) has had its neoprene jacket removed, and was inviting
passengers to touch in or out of the station, and had an orange LED
lit.

I can't see any mention on the TfL or First Capital Connect website
that PAYG is now valid from this station - does the working reader
mean that it probably is, but they've just not told anyone about it
yet?

Why does it have to active for PAYG, what about only for travelcards on
Oyster? (Or does the presence of an Oyster reader *always* mean PAYG is
allowed?)

a) Travelcard users don't need to touch in, so providing a touch-point
for them (other than to get through barriers) would be pointless.

Unless they are extending their journey beyond their zone on another
side of London ...

But they don't provide such readers at all the other ungated stations
where travelcards are valid. Maybe it's a special case because PAYG
is accepted on parts of FCC?



b) the presence of an Oyster reader doesn't mean PAYG is allowed.

c) however, if someone were to touch their PAYG Oyster card in at Ally
Pally, and it were to beep in a 'normal' fashion', flash green and
then charge them for a PAYG journey, then there's no way in hell FCC
could get away with penalising them for travelling without a valid
ticket.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot orgwww.johnband.org- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Aug 11, 6:25*pm, MIG wrote:
On 11 Aug, 18:14, John B wrote:





On Aug 11, 6:08*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
09:56:28 on Tue, 11 Aug 2009, martin
remarked:

Walking past Alexandra Palace station this afternoon, I noticed that
the standalone Oyster reader (on the pavement, next to the outdoor
ticket machine) has had its neoprene jacket removed, and was inviting
passengers to touch in or out of the station, and had an orange LED
lit.

I can't see any mention on the TfL or First Capital Connect website
that PAYG is now valid from this station - does the working reader
mean that it probably is, but they've just not told anyone about it
yet?

Why does it have to active for PAYG, what about only for travelcards on
Oyster? (Or does the presence of an Oyster reader *always* mean PAYG is
allowed?)

a) Travelcard users don't need to touch in, so providing a touch-point
for them (other than to get through barriers) would be pointless.

Unless they are extending their journey beyond their zone on another
side of London ...

Good point. I've been caught out like that (luckily in an 'oops,
sorry' way, rather than a 'gbp20 fine' way) at LHR, having not touched
in my Z12 at Finsbury Park when I lived there.

But they don't provide such readers at all the other ungated stations
where travelcards are valid. *Maybe it's a special case because PAYG
is accepted on parts of FCC?

I'm sure it's *there* in preparation for PAYG being enabled for NR.

Why it's been switched on already is a harder ask (my top 3 options
are mistake, testing, and FCC having come to an agreement earlier than
the south-of-river TOCs which they'll announce shortly).

In the meantime, we need a guinea pig with a PAYG card and no
Travelcard loaded to touch in and see what happens...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Paul Corfield wrote:


I can recommend a read of the minutes of the newly re-established Panels
for TfL. Lots of detail that you don't see in the Board minutes or
Commissioners report.


Further to this, and with due regard to Paul's position, it does appear
that the former Rail Transport Advisory Panel and Underground Advisory
Panel disappeared with the advent of Boris (the RTAP's last Agenda from
13/2/2008 hopefully states 'Date Of Next Meeting: Tuesday 20 May at
2.00pm').

They then mysteriously reappear after a Board decision in late September
2008, with meetings held on 26/2/2009, 20/5/2009 and 10/7/2009.

Now, three things should be noted from this: first off, someone in
Boris's team thought that the Panels weren't worth keeping and canned
them in May 2008. The timing of the Board meeting that reinstated them
strongly suggests that it was Tim Parker who binned them, as he resigned
in mid-August 2008, and it sounds like his sort of thing (cut and cut
with no understanding). We therefore lost getting on for a year of TfL
being run under a system that both Mayors now seem to think is
appropriate, which can't be good really.

The second thing that is noticeable is that it's no longer considered
necessary to consider rail and underground separately, which possibly
gives some indication of the priority given to them in the current
administration. Backing this view, the Surface Panel (roads n stuff) is
chaired by Steve Norris, while the Rail and Underground one gets Chris
Garnett. Well, at least it's not 'Jarvis' Norris - he's not someone you
want to see near your railway.

The third thing is that there are four panels, and Daniel Moylan is on
every single one, which answers the question 'who's in charge here,
then?'. Big road nut of course, Moylan is.

Tom

In article
,
(John B) wrote:

On Aug 11, 6:25*pm, MIG wrote:
On 11 Aug, 18:14, John B wrote:

On Aug 11, 6:08*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

In message
,
at 09:56:28 on Tue, 11 Aug 2009, martin
remarked:

Walking past Alexandra Palace station this afternoon, I noticed
that the standalone Oyster reader (on the pavement, next to the
outdoor ticket machine) has had its neoprene jacket removed,
a nd was inviting passengers to touch in or out of the station,
and had an orange LED lit.

I can't see any mention on the TfL or First Capital Connect
website that PAYG is now valid from this station - does the
working reader mean that it probably is, but they've just not
told anyone about it yet?

Why does it have to active for PAYG, what about only for
travelcards on Oyster? (Or does the presence of an Oyster
reader *always* mean PAYG is allowed?)

a) Travelcard users don't need to touch in, so providing a
touch-point for them (other than to get through barriers) would be
pointless.

Unless they are extending their journey beyond their zone on another
side of London ...

Good point. I've been caught out like that (luckily in an 'oops,
sorry' way, rather than a 'gbp20 fine' way) at LHR, having not touched
in my Z12 at Finsbury Park when I lived there.

But they don't provide such readers at all the other ungated stations
where travelcards are valid. *Maybe it's a special case because PAYG
is accepted on parts of FCC?

I'm sure it's *there* in preparation for PAYG being enabled for NR.

Why it's been switched on already is a harder ask (my top 3 options
are mistake, testing, and FCC having come to an agreement earlier than
the south-of-river TOCs which they'll announce shortly).

In the meantime, we need a guinea pig with a PAYG card and no
Travelcard loaded to touch in and see what happens...

I'm going to Hornsey on Wednesday afternoon (after work) but I'm
definitely not experimenting on this one! I shall get an off-peak day
travelcard from Cambridge.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

John B wrote:

[Oyster validator at Ally Pally]

Why it's been switched on already is a harder ask (my top 3 options
are mistake, testing, and FCC having come to an agreement earlier than
the south-of-river TOCs which they'll announce shortly).

I would guess it's more a case of Cubic not wanting to have to send
Engineers out to do a mass switch on when PAYG is finally accepted, as
the validators at Palmers Green, Edmonton Green and Silver Street are
all turned on as well (though generally still covered).

As for why it's uncovered, I'd be inclined to suggest that that's down
to the local scrotes arsing about.

Cheers,

Barry

On Aug 11, 6:32*pm, John B wrote:

In the meantime, we need a guinea pig with a PAYG card and no
Travelcard loaded to touch in and see what happens...

I took a detour on my way home this evening, and gave it a go myself
(stopping via Finsbury Park, where I also touched out at a standalone
reader, and bought a paper ticket just in case)

And... it seems to have worked.

I went down to Wood Green tube and got a journey history printout,
which shows Wood Lane - Finsbury Park (at £0.00) followed by Wood Lane
- Alexandra Palace at £3.80, then the next line says *cap applied*.
This price is also the same as the z1-3 PAYG off-peak cap with
Railcard discount, most of which makes sense.

The journey history on a ticket machine listed "Wood Lane - Alexandra
Palac", and had "Via Z3LO" at the end of the line (although the O had
fallen off the edge of the display a little).

I'm not quite sure what higher price it was trying to charge me, or
whether this is likely to be the actual price charged once PAYG is
properly accepted for this route. It's useful to know though that I
(unofficially) have the option if I'm heading into town and the
Piccadilly Line's not working - and not bad value, provided it's after
9.30am. Of course, it's still a bit of a grey area if one is north of
Finsbury Park and encounters an ticket inspector - though that's never
happened to me on a FCC train.

Incidentally, the readers on the platform were still wearing their
jackets.

In article
,
(Martin Deutsch) wrote:

On Aug 11, 6:32*pm, John B wrote:

In the meantime, we need a guinea pig with a PAYG card and no
Travelcard loaded to touch in and see what happens...

I took a detour on my way home this evening, and gave it a go myself
(stopping via Finsbury Park, where I also touched out at a standalone
reader, and bought a paper ticket just in case)

And... it seems to have worked.

I went down to Wood Green tube and got a journey history printout,
which shows Wood Lane - Finsbury Park (at £0.00) followed by Wood Lane
- Alexandra Palace at £3.80, then the next line says *cap applied*.
This price is also the same as the z1-3 PAYG off-peak cap with
Railcard discount, most of which makes sense.

The journey history on a ticket machine listed "Wood Lane - Alexandra
Palac", and had "Via Z3LO" at the end of the line (although the O had
fallen off the edge of the display a little).

Wood Lane?

I'm not quite sure what higher price it was trying to charge me, or
whether this is likely to be the actual price charged once PAYG is
properly accepted for this route. It's useful to know though that I
(unofficially) have the option if I'm heading into town and the
Piccadilly Line's not working - and not bad value, provided it's after
9.30am. Of course, it's still a bit of a grey area if one is north of
Finsbury Park and encounters an ticket inspector - though that's never
happened to me on a FCC train.

Incidentally, the readers on the platform were still wearing their
jackets.

There were still posters up saying no PAYG except on Finsbury Park to
Moorgate/King's Cross on my trip to and from Hornsey via Finsbury Park
this afternoon. And no sign of Oyster validators, or barriers even, at
Hornsey either. Nobody there took any interest in my (paper) Day
Travelcard.

--
Colin Rosenstiel