Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as S.Byers
gently breathed:
The extent of the damage in the Berkshire crash was caused by two
major factors apart from the speed of the train and the limited view
of the hero driver.

These we

1/ the rear power car, still under full power, caused much of the
crumpling and jack knifing, and

This is believed to be incorrect, but is in the interim HSE report which
might explain why it got posted here.

In reality, the power car of an HST weighs only the same as two coaches
(70 tons vs 35 tons), so in reality it was the combined momentum of the
whole train that caused the damage - as the HSE interim report does
comment. Stopping 350 tons in such a short space requires the
dissipation of a great deal of energy, and this is what caused the
damage.

--
- Pyromancer Stormshadow.
http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk -- Pagan Gothic Rock!
http://www.littlematchgirl.co.uk -- Electronic Metal!
http://www.revival.stormshadow.com -- The Gothic Revival.

Pyromancer wrote:
Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as S.Byers
gently breathed:
The extent of the damage in the Berkshire crash was caused by two
major factors apart from the speed of the train and the limited
view of the hero driver.

These we

1/ the rear power car, still under full power, caused much of the
crumpling and jack knifing, and

This is believed to be incorrect, but is in the interim HSE report
which might explain why it got posted here.

The unfounded idea that the rear power car was still under full power
was certainly NOT in the interim HSE report. It was an ignorant rumour
that I believe was mentioned first on Sky News a few hours after the
crash.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

"Alan Osborn" wrote in message
...

snip

Yet throughout the world we now have high speed passenger trains
pushed from the *rear* by high powered engines. There will be more
such crashes.

another snip

Do you also propose the end of DMU's and EMU's effectively all modern
day trains
How about banning 4x4 vehicles Front and rear axle powered.

I think you're being harsh. The OP was referring to pushed trains, not push
and pull.

Will.

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Richard J.
gently breathed:

The unfounded idea that the rear power car was still under full power
was certainly NOT in the interim HSE report. It was an ignorant rumour
that I believe was mentioned first on Sky News a few hours after the
crash.

Aha, yes, I missed that bit, was just referring to the "pushing
momentum" idea.

--
- Pyromancer Stormshadow.
http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk -- Pagan Gothic Rock!
http://www.littlematchgirl.co.uk -- Electronic Metal!
http://www.revival.stormshadow.com -- The Gothic Revival.

"Richard J." wrote in message
. uk...
Pyromancer wrote:
Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as S.Byers
gently breathed:
The extent of the damage in the Berkshire crash was caused by two
major factors apart from the speed of the train and the limited
view of the hero driver.

These we

1/ the rear power car, still under full power, caused much of the
crumpling and jack knifing, and

This is believed to be incorrect, but is in the interim HSE report
which might explain why it got posted here.

The unfounded idea that the rear power car was still under full power
was certainly NOT in the interim HSE report. It was an ignorant rumour
that I believe was mentioned first on Sky News a few hours after the
crash.
--

I can see where this has come about. There is a BBC website report that
states "The front of the First Great Western train ploughed into the
embankment, while the rear power car on the train continued to propel the
train forward, investigators found."

What they have missed out is "momentum of", which is in the HSE report.


Dave

In article ,
Tim Christian wrote:

"Clive Coleman" wrote in message
...
In message , A.Lee
writes
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:09:38 -0800, S.Byers wrote:

The extent of the damage in the Berkshire crash was caused by ...
1/ the rear power car, still under full power,

FO back under your stone, troll.

I don't troll this N/G but I do remember working on British Railways
when propelling was not allowed above 40mph. I expect I'll now get
some egghead to troll me, but this was always the case when working
tender first. (It also had the advantage of keeping the coal dust out
of your eyes).
--
Clive.

Braking and power control not withstanding, a heavy weight at the rear
of a train is not good news when it has to stop in a hurry, but a heavy
weight at the front means a better chance of staying upright and,
potentially, more protection for the guy at the sharp end.


The momentum of one loco at the back is no different from three coaches at
the back (approx). So its one coach trains only from now on ?

David

In article ,
Dave wrote:

"Richard J." wrote in message
. uk...
Pyromancer wrote:
Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as S.Byers
gently breathed:
The extent of the damage in the Berkshire crash was caused by two
major factors apart from the speed of the train and the limited
view of the hero driver.

These we

1/ the rear power car, still under full power, caused much of the
crumpling and jack knifing, and

This is believed to be incorrect, but is in the interim HSE report
which might explain why it got posted here.

The unfounded idea that the rear power car was still under full power
was certainly NOT in the interim HSE report. It was an ignorant rumour
that I believe was mentioned first on Sky News a few hours after the
crash.
--

I can see where this has come about. There is a BBC website report that
states "The front of the First Great Western train ploughed into the
embankment, while the rear power car on the train continued to propel the
train forward, investigators found."

What they have missed out is "momentum of", which is in the HSE report.

....and the investigators might have pointed out that the momentum of the
rear eight coaches acting on the (derailed) leading power car was a lot
greater than the momentum of the rear power car.

David

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:08:02 -0000 someone who may be "Tim
Christian" wrote this:-

Braking and power control not withstanding, a heavy weight at the rear of a
train is not good news when it has to stop in a hurry,

The "heavy weight" is equivalent to two or three coaches. Nobody
worries about the effect in a crash if two or three coaches are
added to a train.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
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On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:39:08 +0000 someone who may be Clive Coleman
wrote this:-

I suspect the shape of the leading power car to have something to do
with gathering up the car instead of just shunting it to the side.

As has been said before, the shape of the nose of the power car is
simply fibreglass. Behind that fibreglass is essentially what one
would find on the front of a locomotive, though without the buffers.


--
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I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
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On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:19:59 +0000 someone who may be Clive Coleman
wrote this:-

econdly, the rear power car was NOT under the full power.
The train's 'black box recorder' that the power notch was at zero and
the brake handle was in 'emergency'. It was simply the inertia of the
rear power car (which had already derailed) that kept it moving.

Do you KNOW that?

The Railway Inspectorate say so in their interim report.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.


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