Can anyone tell me why London Underground staff at stations are often
so singularly ill-informed when incidents on the tube happen? I've
just tried to go from Holborn to Knightsbridge on the Piccadilly Line.
I got to Holborn Station, which was shut. The staff at the front of
the station told everyone to walk down to Covent Garden. Covent
Garden was also shut. The staff there assured me that there were
still trains running on the Piccadilly Line, it was just these two
stations that were shut for the Fire Brigade to be in attendance, and
that I should walk to Leicester Square. Got to Leicester Square and,
guess what, the escalators to the Piccadilly Line were shut and staff
there said there were no trains on the line at all.

So clearly the staff at Holborn and at Covent Garden either wilfully
lied, which I think is highly unlikely, or they simply didn't know
what was going on. If the latter, why on earth not? Is it really
that difficult?

I only ask because I've noticed in lots of cases where there are
incidents like this, the station staff generally seem to be at a total
loss as to what's actually going on.

Any information welcome!

Patrick

The Only Living Boy in New Cross wrote to uk.transport.london on Thu, 13
Jan 2005:

So clearly the staff at Holborn and at Covent Garden either wilfully
lied, which I think is highly unlikely, or they simply didn't know
what was going on. If the latter, why on earth not? Is it really
that difficult?

I think sometimes they really *aren't* told what's going on in real
time, as it were. I remember once at Canary Wharf station, there'd been
an incident on the Central Line and the staff were saying "Don't even
think about changing on to the Central Line tonight", then there was a
murmur in the background and the same voice said, "Oh, they *are*
running, then?" and came back properly on to the PA to explain exactly
where on the Central Lines trains were and were not running.

I only ask because I've noticed in lots of cases where there are
incidents like this, the station staff generally seem to be at a total
loss as to what's actually going on.

They do seem to be better these days, with those clever notices they put
up showing which lines have problems and which are running "well".
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 2 January 2005

"The Only Living Boy in New Cross" wrote in
message om...
Can anyone tell me why London Underground staff at stations are often
so singularly ill-informed when incidents on the tube happen? I've
just tried to go from Holborn to Knightsbridge on the Piccadilly Line.
I got to Holborn Station, which was shut. The staff at the front of
the station told everyone to walk down to Covent Garden. Covent
Garden was also shut. The staff there assured me that there were
still trains running on the Piccadilly Line, it was just these two
stations that were shut for the Fire Brigade to be in attendance, and
that I should walk to Leicester Square. Got to Leicester Square and,
guess what, the escalators to the Piccadilly Line were shut and staff
there said there were no trains on the line at all.

So clearly the staff at Holborn and at Covent Garden either wilfully
lied, which I think is highly unlikely, or they simply didn't know
what was going on. If the latter, why on earth not? Is it really
that difficult?

I only ask because I've noticed in lots of cases where there are
incidents like this, the station staff generally seem to be at a total
loss as to what's actually going on.

Any information welcome!

Patrick

I guess one explanation could be that things change over time especially
with tube incidents involving the emergency services and just because
Leicester Square was shut when you got there it doesn't mean that is
was when you left Covent Garden. I appreciate it's not a long walk
but it takes even less time to decide that an entire line section needs
to be shut.

Like I say just a guess but there you go.

DFF

On 13 Jan 2005 05:14:46 -0800, (The Only
Living Boy in New Cross) wrote:

Can anyone tell me why London Underground staff at stations are often
so singularly ill-informed when incidents on the tube happen? I've
just tried to go from Holborn to Knightsbridge on the Piccadilly Line.
I got to Holborn Station, which was shut. The staff at the front of
the station told everyone to walk down to Covent Garden. Covent
Garden was also shut. The staff there assured me that there were
still trains running on the Piccadilly Line, it was just these two
stations that were shut for the Fire Brigade to be in attendance, and
that I should walk to Leicester Square. Got to Leicester Square and,
guess what, the escalators to the Piccadilly Line were shut and staff
there said there were no trains on the line at all.

So clearly the staff at Holborn and at Covent Garden either wilfully
lied, which I think is highly unlikely, or they simply didn't know
what was going on. If the latter, why on earth not? Is it really
that difficult?

I'm not 100% up to date on the Piccadilly Line problem that closed the
line but I understand it was a train that had smoke coming from it.
Therefore the "problem" moved along the line. As each station was served
by the smoking train it caused the station to close. Eventually there
was a line suspension. I'll know more tomorrow when I see the daily
report - and I'm sure there will be lots of questions about it as it
sounds a rather odd incident to me.

I'm not an expert on the next bit so any train drivers, DMTs or station
staff on the group can leap in and correct it!

Part of the problem is that the communication channels are separate.
Train radio is separate from station radio so a train incident can be
being discussed between driver and line controller and stations may not
immediately know what is happening. The Line Controller is trying to
manage the direct incident and therefore has to get someone else to pass
information to other lines (if affected) and to the stations on the
line. What can also happen is that platform staff can see the train has
stopped, they radio their supervisor who then calls the line controller
but he is busy talking to the driver! This obviously creates a delay
which may still be short in real terms but is too long if you are a
passenger whose journey has come to a halt!

There is not yet a common IT infrastructure at all stations and in all
line control rooms to immediately communicate problems although work is
being done to improve this situation.

The Connect Radio system will deal with the unified radio system issues
while the new signalling and control systems that will come in over the
years will provide far more information to Line Controllers and will
feed the dot matrix indicators and new ticket hall displays. Public
address systems will also be improved.

I appreciate this all sounds like jam tomorrow but actions have been
taken to get the best out of what we have today, there are more
improvements due in the short term and the promise of much better in the
medium term. Tim O'Toole (MD) has made it very clear to everyone that
better information is an absolutely essential item that must be provided
to passengers.

If it is any consolation I get just as ****ed off as the next man when
the comms process does not work when there is a problem.

Hope the above helps explain things a bit.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Darren" wrote in message
...

"The Only Living Boy in New Cross" wrote in
message om...
Can anyone tell me why London Underground staff at stations are often
so singularly ill-informed when incidents on the tube happen? I've
just tried to go from Holborn to Knightsbridge on the Piccadilly Line.
I got to Holborn Station, which was shut. The staff at the front of
the station told everyone to walk down to Covent Garden. Covent
Garden was also shut. The staff there assured me that there were
still trains running on the Piccadilly Line, it was just these two
stations that were shut for the Fire Brigade to be in attendance, and
that I should walk to Leicester Square. Got to Leicester Square and,
guess what, the escalators to the Piccadilly Line were shut and staff
there said there were no trains on the line at all.

Two incidents occurred at almost the same time - reports of smoke in the
running tunnels between South Kensington and Knightsbridge and between
Covent Garden and Holborn requiring Fire Brigade checks to be carried out
resulting in services being suspended between Hammersmith and Kings Cross on
the Eastbound and then on the Westbound for further checks. As others have
already stated, incidents like this are dynamic by their very nature and
there can be a lag in the latest information being passed to front line
staff as the line management are concentrating on resolving the incident and
ensuring potential problems do no occur - such as trains stuck in tunnels
outside the affected area.

The short answer is no, the staff at Covent Garden didn't lie, at the time
you asked them there was still a Westbound service but both Holborn and
Covent Garden were closed according to Fire Brigade instructions. By the
time you reached Leicester Square the Fire Brigade had completed checks on
the Eastbound and wanted to travel back Westbound to check that the smoke
hadn't drifted from that running tunnel.