Just had a look at the website: http://www.ellp.co.uk/index.htm

It doesn't appear to have changed much in the last few months, has there
been any signs of real activity on the ground yet? Always seems to be a
vastly overpriced project to me, especially the phase 1 stuff.

Which NR TOC will be absorbing the line into its empire, has this been
formally decided yet?

Are SWT's 458s confirmed as destined for this service - or is this just
rumoured?

There is a mention that extending towards Clapham Junction will help with a
'future orbital rail project', presumably this will mean reversal at CJ and
up via Kensington Olympia etc? Does the track layout at CJ allow for this
eventuality without huge changes?

Paul

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

There is a mention that extending towards Clapham Junction will help with
a
'future orbital rail project', presumably this will mean reversal at CJ
and
up via Kensington Olympia etc? Does the track layout at CJ allow for this
eventuality without huge changes?

Trains would run from the ELL via the new spur from Surrey Quays to the SLL
at Old Kent Road, then via the SLL to Wandsworth Road, then Factory
Junction, Culver Road Junction, to Clapham Junction platforms 1 (which would
be reinstated) and 2. Platform 2 is currently used by the Kensington Olympia
and Willesden Junction shuttle - it was also used a few years back when the
London Bridge - Victoria trains were diverted there (by the above route)
when the route through Battersea Park was temporarily unavailable.

Peter

"Peter Masson" wrote in message
...

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

There is a mention that extending towards Clapham Junction will help with
a
'future orbital rail project', presumably this will mean reversal at CJ
and
up via Kensington Olympia etc? Does the track layout at CJ allow for this
eventuality without huge changes?

Trains would run from the ELL via the new spur from Surrey Quays to the
SLL
at Old Kent Road, then via the SLL to Wandsworth Road, then Factory
Junction, Culver Road Junction, to Clapham Junction platforms 1 (which
would
be reinstated) and 2. Platform 2 is currently used by the Kensington
Olympia
and Willesden Junction shuttle - it was also used a few years back when
the
London Bridge - Victoria trains were diverted there (by the above route)
when the route through Battersea Park was temporarily unavailable.

Peter

So at CJ it might logically operate with one platform for eastbound and one
for westbound trains?

Paul

"Paul Scott" a écrit dans le message de
...

"Peter Masson" wrote in message
...

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

There is a mention that extending towards Clapham Junction will help
with
a
'future orbital rail project', presumably this will mean reversal at CJ
and
up via Kensington Olympia etc? Does the track layout at CJ allow for
this
eventuality without huge changes?

Trains would run from the ELL via the new spur from Surrey Quays to the
SLL
at Old Kent Road, then via the SLL to Wandsworth Road, then Factory
Junction, Culver Road Junction, to Clapham Junction platforms 1 (which
would
be reinstated) and 2. Platform 2 is currently used by the Kensington
Olympia
and Willesden Junction shuttle - it was also used a few years back when
the
London Bridge - Victoria trains were diverted there (by the above route)
when the route through Battersea Park was temporarily unavailable.

Peter

So at CJ it might logically operate with one platform for eastbound and
one
for westbound trains?

ISTM that in that case you would need to be very careful how to express this
to the general public; a clearer terminology would be 'trains for north
London via the West London line' vs 'trains for the East London Line via
south London' (NB it is standard paractice not to identify platforms by
reference to where arriving trains have probably come from).

Regards,

- Alan (in Brussels)

"Paul Scott" wrote in
:

Just had a look at the website: http://www.ellp.co.uk/index.htm

It doesn't appear to have changed much in the last few months, has
there been any signs of real activity on the ground yet?


Just seen some new construction gear on the track bed near me in Dalston -
at last something seems to be happening.

M.

Paul Scott wrote:
Just had a look at the website: http://www.ellp.co.uk/index.htm

It doesn't appear to have changed much in the last few months, has there
been any signs of real activity on the ground yet? Always seems to be a
vastly overpriced project to me, especially the phase 1 stuff.

Which NR TOC will be absorbing the line into its empire, has this been
formally decided yet?

Not decided, but a new franchise may be created, absorbing Silverlink's
Metro services (whether that includes Watford locals is uncertain). Such
a franchise would be under strict control of TfL, in a similar way to
Serco's DLR operations.

Are SWT's 458s confirmed as destined for this service - or is this just
rumoured?

Rumoured. No particularly stock is definitely destined for it yet.

There is a mention that extending towards Clapham Junction will help with a
'future orbital rail project', presumably this will mean reversal at CJ and
up via Kensington Olympia etc? Does the track layout at CJ allow for this
eventuality without huge changes?

As another poster said, the platforms would be adjacent; however,
whether services actually run through from Wandsworth Road - CJ -
Imperial Wharf (& v.v.) is debatable; for reliability's sake, an
Orbirail service may just operate CJ - Willesden - Dalston - Peckham -
CJ and return. The Circle line is an indicator that circular routes
crossing a variety of junctions perform poorly, as without a proper
terminus it is difficult for them to regain lost time.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

If they reversed in Clapham Junction would it be possible to have a train
"step back" to solve late running problems? There are sidings to the west of
CJ platform 1/2. or at least room for reinstatement.

JG.


As another poster said, the platforms would be adjacent; however, whether
services actually run through from Wandsworth Road - CJ - Imperial Wharf
(& v.v.) is debatable; for reliability's sake, an Orbirail service may
just operate CJ - Willesden - Dalston - Peckham - CJ and return. The
Circle line is an indicator that circular routes crossing a variety of
junctions perform poorly, as without a proper terminus it is difficult for
them to regain lost time.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...

As another poster said, the platforms would be adjacent;
however, whether services actually run through from
Wandsworth Road - CJ - Imperial Wharf (& v.v.) is debatable;
for reliability's sake, an Orbirail service may just operate
CJ - Willesden - Dalston - Peckham - CJ and return.
The Circle line is an indicator that circular routes crossing
a variety of junctions perform poorly, as without a proper
terminus it is difficult for them to regain lost time.

The reliability depends on the time allowed at CJ, not on whether trains
return whence they came or proceed around again. (Actually there would be an
impact on reliability of circular trains caused by crossing each other's
path near Clapham Junction, but that would be minor.)

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

John Rowland wrote:
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...

As another poster said, the platforms would be adjacent;
however, whether services actually run through from
Wandsworth Road - CJ - Imperial Wharf (& v.v.) is debatable;
for reliability's sake, an Orbirail service may just operate
CJ - Willesden - Dalston - Peckham - CJ and return.
The Circle line is an indicator that circular routes crossing
a variety of junctions perform poorly, as without a proper
terminus it is difficult for them to regain lost time.


The reliability depends on the time allowed at CJ, not on whether trains
return whence they came or proceed around again. (Actually there would be an
impact on reliability of circular trains caused by crossing each other's
path near Clapham Junction, but that would be minor.)

I meant that you can give them X minutes' turnaround at CJ, so if
they're a bit late arriving then they can still leave on time - whereas
on the Circle line they have some time at Aldgate but it doesn't seem to
be enough to counter much late running.

Publicising it as a "true" circular service, through from the SLL to the
WLL, whilst allowing X5 minutes at CJ, would be annoying to passengers
- much like existing waits at Aldgate or (until last week) on the
Heathrow loop. However, I accept that the direction the train departs in
doesn't really matter.

A connection-based approach might allow a relief time at CJ with faster
journeys for through journeys from West to South or vice versa. For
example, the following strategy would allow 7.5 mins' relief at CJ as
part of a 10 min service frequency, whilst only having a 2.5 min wait at
CJ for through passengers:

SLL - Platform 1 (0.0min)
Platform 2 - WLL (2.5min) Train 1
WLL - Platform 2 (5.0min) Train 2
Platform 1 - SLL (7.5min)

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...
Paul Scott wrote:
Just had a look at the website: http://www.ellp.co.uk/index.htm

There is a mention that extending towards Clapham Junction will help with
a 'future orbital rail project', presumably this will mean reversal at CJ
and up via Kensington Olympia etc? Does the track layout at CJ allow for
this eventuality without huge changes?

As another poster said, the platforms would be adjacent; however, whether
services actually run through from Wandsworth Road - CJ - Imperial Wharf
(& v.v.) is debatable; for reliability's sake, an Orbirail service may
just operate CJ - Willesden - Dalston - Peckham - CJ and return. The
Circle line is an indicator that circular routes crossing a variety of
junctions perform poorly, as without a proper terminus it is difficult for
them to regain lost time.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Do any existing services follow the basic route around south London, and
are there paths for the Phase 2 service?

Hasn't it been suggested that the Circle line could be binned without much
effect on passengers, but major improvements to the Met & District
reliability?

Paul