Speed Camera Avoidance
 

Paul Cummins wrote:
In article ,
(Peter Sumner) wrote:

No the speed limit on roads with streetlights is 30mph unless there
are signs to indicate otherwise,

Hmmm...

The Midlands Urban Motorway has streetlights every 100 metres, and no
road signs saying it's a 70 limit...

So that rule of thumb doesn't work.

Yes, it does.

a) Motorways are defined as "Special Roads" and so special rules apply.
b) There is a sign as one joins indicating that it is a motorway and that
the rules for motorways apply.

Speed Camera Avoidance
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:44:03
on Sun, 20 Feb 2005, Peter Sumner
remarked:
Presumably there must be 30 signs to make the speed limit
enforceable, but they may not be very obvious.

No the speed limit on roads with streetlights is 30mph unless there
are signs to indicate otherwise, I'd expect advanced drivers to know
that :-}

No, that's a common fallacy. The streetlights have to be less than a
particular distance apart, and for a minimum distance.

Your information needs updating.
http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103


It's not very easy for the average motorist to benchmark short
stretches of streetlights (eg) at intersections on an otherwise
de-restricted road. But you can be sure that most times the limit doesn't
suddenly
drop to 30mph for a couple of hundred yards.

Speed Camera Avoidance
 

Paul Cummins wrote:
In article ,
(Peter Sumner) wrote:

No the speed limit on roads with streetlights is 30mph unless there
are signs to indicate otherwise,

Hmmm...

The Midlands Urban Motorway has streetlights every 100 metres, and
no road signs saying it's a 70 limit...

So that rule of thumb doesn't work.

I think legally the rule applies to a road other than a "special road",
the latter being a legal term that includes motorways. The application
of the rule can be quite tricky for drivers. A road is a "restricted
road", and therefore subject to a 30 mph limit, if it has street lamps
not more than 200 yards apart. So you could be driving through a
village with, say, 3 street lamps at 200-yard intervals. This would be
automatically subject to a 30 mph limit, but it would be illegal for the
highway authority to clarify the situation by putting repeater 30 mph
signs, which are banned on restricted roads with street lighting.
(Unless there's been a change in the law recently. I've seen plates in
Reading containing a repeater 30 and a camera logo.)

(Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, Traffic Signs (Speed Limits) General
Directions 1969)

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Speed Camera Avoidance
 

In message , at
11:22:21 on Sun, 20 Feb 2005, Richard J.
remarked:
A road is a "restricted
road", and therefore subject to a 30 mph limit, if it has street lamps
not more than 200 yards apart.

I think there's a minimum length too, something like half a mile;
streetlights for less than that don't count.

So you could be driving through a
village with, say, 3 street lamps at 200-yard intervals.

Or indeed one with lamps at 205yd intervals

This would be
automatically subject to a 30 mph limit,

Which wouldn't. You need to carry a tape measure when driving at night!

but it would be illegal for the
highway authority to clarify the situation by putting repeater 30 mph
signs, which are banned on restricted roads with street lighting.
(Unless there's been a change in the law recently. I've seen plates in
Reading containing a repeater 30 and a camera logo.)

Essex has several villages with 30mph repeaters (the small round ones).
--
Roland Perry

Speed Camera Avoidance
 

In message , at 11:02:44 on Sun, 20 Feb
2005, Brimstone remarked:
No, that's a common fallacy. The streetlights have to be less than a
particular distance apart, and for a minimum distance.

Your information needs updating.
http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103

No, yours does.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group.../dft_roads_504
746.hcsp

Street lamps only indicate a 30mph limit if they are closer than 183 metres
apart. It's obvious there has to be *some* limit, otherwise a street lamp in
one village, followed by another a mile away in the next village, could be
construed to make the entire stretch between the two villages a 30mph zone.

--
Roland Perry

Speed Camera Avoidance
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:02:44 on Sun,
20 Feb 2005, Brimstone remarked:
No, that's a common fallacy. The streetlights have to be less than a
particular distance apart, and for a minimum distance.

Your information needs updating.
http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103

No, yours does.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group.../dft_roads_504
746.hcsp

Street lamps only indicate a 30mph limit if they are closer than 183
metres apart. It's obvious there has to be *some* limit, otherwise a
street lamp in one village, followed by another a mile away in the
next village, could be construed to make the entire stretch between
the two villages a 30mph zone.

The Highway code is the document to which drivers are referred by HM
Government and other bodies. Sensible people would realise that a gap such
as you suggest is a break in the limit. Even if they don't they are "failing
safe".

Speed Camera Avoidance
 

In article ,
(Brimstone) wrote:

Even if they don't they are "failing
safe".

I wouldn't call 30 in a 60 "safe"

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981

Speed Camera Avoidance
 

Peter Sumner wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 20 Feb 2005:

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 19:19:06 -0000, "Martin Underwood"
wrote:

"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...
Yeah, or perfectly good roads into Brighton, quite safe at 40 mph,
suddenly turning into 30 mph without even telling you until you get
flashed & penalty points (this one's a very sore point in our family!).

Presumably there must be 30 signs to make the speed limit enforceable, but
they may not be very obvious.

No the speed limit on roads with streetlights is 30mph unless there
are signs to indicate otherwise, I'd expect advanced drivers to know
that :-}

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103


In this particular case, there *had* been 40 mph signs.... which petered
out, and as far as I am aware (and, of course, we might have just missed
it) there wasn't a large sign warning one that we were entering a 30 mph
zone - first we realised was when the cameras flashed.....
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 20 February 2005

Speed Camera Avoidance
 

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:41:50 +0000, redtube wrote:


"loobyloo" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:43:19 +0000 (UTC), Paul Scott wrote:

I suppose one radical solution would be to obey the road traffic laws.

--
Cliff Laine, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster http://www.loobynet.com
* remove any trace of rudeness before you reply *

Arrrgh listen to old self righteousness Lardface out there, - Obey the road
traffic laws? oh sure and thats why the overwhelming majority of us *real*
people out there find the wretched things things anything but a safety
measure and purely as a device to earn revenue? Easy money in other words.
Most Dual Carriageway speed limits should be removed anyway cos no
pedestrians are involved usually most are barrier proofed with footbridges
or traffic lights these days. So why even HAVE a 50 say for instance
suddenly turn into a 40 or even 30 on a Dual Carriageway with perfectly good
barriers to safeguard the pedestrians? Reason? to catch the motorists out,
thats what.

Are the legal alcohol limits too low too? I presume you being such a
supreme driver can drive well over the limit?

Speed Camera Avoidance
 

"Peter Sumner" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 19:19:06 -0000, "Martin Underwood"
wrote:

"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...
Yeah, or perfectly good roads into Brighton, quite safe at 40 mph,
suddenly turning into 30 mph without even telling you until you get
flashed & penalty points (this one's a very sore point in our family!).

Presumably there must be 30 signs to make the speed limit enforceable, but
they may not be very obvious.

No the speed limit on roads with streetlights is 30mph unless there
are signs to indicate otherwise, I'd expect advanced drivers to know
that :-}

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103

I'd still expect 30 mph signs at the *boundary* with the 40, 50 or 60 limit.
What wouldn't be needed are the 30 mph reminder signs on every other
lamp-post that you'd have if it was saya 40 limit. Expecting people to
notice a lamp-post and say "ah: a 30 limit must begin here" is a bit subtle.
Despite being a member of the IAM there are many things that I disagree
with: they are all for subtlety whereas I think you can never have too much
in-you-face information - like the 300, 200, 100 countdown to a speed limit
that I mentioned. They also criticised me for indicating *too much* when
there were *as far as anyone could see* no cars or pedestrians to see my
signal; I err on the side of caution (fail-safe) by indicating in case a car
or pedestrian that I haven't seen (approaching on a road flanked by bushes)
would benefit from my signal. Surprisingly my "observer" (ie instructor)
couldn't see how dangerous it was not to have a road-narrows or
two-lanes-merge-into-one sign at traffic lights where you view of the road
ahead is masked by cars on the far side of the junction. So I respect some,
but not all, of what they advise.