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Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
On a recent trip by Tramink, I was struck by the fact that the former
'double arrow' symbol still widely used to identify National Rail stations does not appear on the trams' relevant destination blinds, eg Elmers End, Beckenham Junc. and Wimbledon. Here in Belgium, the corresponding symbol provides a convenient way of emphasising the way road and rail services are integrated. Is this an example of the 'not invented here' syndrome, or is there some other simple explanation? Regards, - Alan (in Brussels) |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
Alan (in Brussels) wrote:
On a recent trip by Tramink, I was struck by the fact that the former 'double arrow' symbol still widely used to identify National Rail stations does not appear on the trams' relevant destination blinds, eg Elmers End, Beckenham Junc. and Wimbledon. Here in Belgium, the corresponding symbol provides a convenient way of emphasising the way road and rail services are integrated. Is this an example of the 'not invented here' syndrome, or is there some other simple explanation? Not sure of the explanation, but some bus blinds showing stations as destinations *do* show the rail (and sometimes Tube) symbols. For example, the 18 to Euston. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
Not sure of the explanation, but some bus blinds showing stations as
destinations *do* show the rail (and sometimes Tube) symbols. For example, the 18 to Euston. Interestingly, though unrelated to the original question, some (but strangely not all) 258s to Watford Junction show the Tube symbol as well as the NR one - is this in anticipation of the going-ahead (and timely completion) of the Croxley Link? Illustrated he http://www.busesatwork.co.uk/images2...58_VTL1219.jpg |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
Alan (in Brussels) wrote:
On a recent trip by Tramink, I was struck by the fact that the former 'double arrow' symbol still widely used to identify National Rail stations What do you mean the "former 'double arrow' symbol?" It's still a double arrow symbol, even if it's being used for "National Rail" instead of British Rail. -- Michael Hoffman |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
In the message de ...
"asdf" wrote: Not sure of the explanation, but some bus blinds showing stations as destinations *do* show the rail (and sometimes Tube) symbols. For example, the 18 to Euston. Interestingly, though unrelated to the original question, some (but strangely not all) 258s to Watford Junction show the Tube symbol as well as the NR one - is this in anticipation of the going-ahead (and timely completion) of the Croxley Link? Illustrated he http://www.busesatwork.co.uk/images2...58_VTL1219.jpg Yes, very nice; why aren't they all like that ? BTW surely the LT 'roundel' isn't *just* the 'Tube' (or even 'UndergrounD') symbol? - Alan (in Brussels) |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
Alan (in Brussels) wrote:
On a recent trip by Tramink, I was struck by the fact that the former 'double arrow' symbol still widely used to identify National Rail stations does not appear on the trams' relevant destination blinds, eg Elmers End, Beckenham Junc. and Wimbledon. Here in Belgium, the corresponding symbol provides a convenient way of emphasising the way road and rail services are integrated. Is this an example of the 'not invented here' syndrome, or is there some other simple explanation? Simple. There's no modal integration. |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:19:08 +0200, "Alan \(in Brussels\)"
wrote: a convenient way of emphasising the way road and rail services are integrated. I think a clue to the answer may lie here.... -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
In the message ...
"Arthur Figgis" ] wrote: On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:19:08 +0200, "Alan \(in Brussels\)" wrote: a convenient way of emphasising the way road and rail services are integrated. I think a clue to the answer may lie here.... Perhaps so far as through unit ticketing and/or timetabling is concerned, but passenger interchange between tram and suburban rail platforms at Elmers End and at Wimbledon is exemplary (compared eg with many Tube/Tube or even bus/bus 'interchanges' in central London). So why not stress it wherever possible? Regards, - Alan (in Brussels) |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
Alan (in Brussels) wrote:
In the message ... "Arthur Figgis" ] wrote: On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:19:08 +0200, "Alan \(in Brussels\)" wrote: a convenient way of emphasising the way road and rail services are integrated. I think a clue to the answer may lie here.... Perhaps so far as through unit ticketing and/or timetabling is concerned, but passenger interchange between tram and suburban rail platforms at Elmers End and at Wimbledon is exemplary (compared eg with many Tube/Tube or even bus/bus 'interchanges' in central London). So why not stress it wherever possible? Because integration isn't permitted. |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:16:22 +0000 (UTC), "Brimstone"
wrote: Because integration isn't permitted. A cynical, and wholly incorrect, opinion. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK When replying please use neil at the above domain 'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read. |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:19:08 +0200, Alan (in Brussels) wrote:
On a recent trip by Tramink, I was struck by the fact that the former 'double arrow' symbol still widely used to identify National Rail stations does not appear on the trams' relevant destination blinds, eg Elmers End, Beckenham Junc. and Wimbledon. Here in Belgium, the corresponding symbol provides a convenient way of emphasising the way road and rail services are integrated. Is this an example of the 'not invented here' syndrome, or is there some other simple explanation? I have noticed recently that there's a little blob appearing next the the double arrow symbol in modern usage. I take this blob to be an R in a circle, so perhaps there is an issue over trademark protection or licensing which makes it less hassle and less expensive not to use the symbol. -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p12686827.html (Quite a steep gradient: Chester Zoo Overhead Railway - Train 1, 2000) |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
"Alan (in Brussels)" wrote in message
... On a recent trip by Tramink, I was struck by the fact that the former 'double arrow' symbol still widely used to identify National Rail stations does not appear on the trams' relevant destination blinds, eg Elmers End, Beckenham Junc. and Wimbledon. Here in Belgium, the corresponding symbol provides a convenient way of emphasising the way road and rail services are integrated. But Tramlink is not a road service, it's a rail service. District Line trains to Wimbledon have never, AFAIK, had a BR symbol on the destination blind, so why would you expect Tramlink to have one? The double-arrow and roundel symbols are used on the front of buses as a short hand for "Station", and generally bus blinds have changed overnight from displaying "Station" to using the symbols. Therefore their presence on a bus blind informs that the bus terminates at Mytown Station, as opposed to Mytown ASDA or Mytown Library or some vaguely specified part of Mytown. There is no need for such a designation on a tram route where every stop has a precise name. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
John Rowland wrote:
"Alan (in Brussels)" wrote in message ... On a recent trip by Tramink, I was struck by the fact that the former 'double arrow' symbol still widely used to identify National Rail stations does not appear on the trams' relevant destination blinds, eg Elmers End, Beckenham Junc. and Wimbledon. Here in Belgium, the corresponding symbol provides a convenient way of emphasising the way road and rail services are integrated. But Tramlink is not a road service, it's a rail service. District Line trains to Wimbledon have never, AFAIK, had a BR symbol on the destination blind, so why would you expect Tramlink to have one? But LT/LU maps have long had an indication on their maps of an interchange facility with the mainline railway. |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
"Brimstone" wrote in message
... John Rowland wrote: But Tramlink is not a road service, it's a rail service. District Line trains to Wimbledon have never, AFAIK, had a BR symbol on the destination blind, so why would you expect Tramlink to have one? But LT/LU maps have long had an indication on their maps of an interchange facility with the mainline railway. And so do Tramlink maps. So what's your point? -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
John Rowland wrote:
"Brimstone" wrote in message ... John Rowland wrote: But Tramlink is not a road service, it's a rail service. District Line trains to Wimbledon have never, AFAIK, had a BR symbol on the destination blind, so why would you expect Tramlink to have one? But LT/LU maps have long had an indication on their maps of an interchange facility with the mainline railway. And so do Tramlink maps. So what's your point? That there are methods of indicating interchange facilities without it being on the vehicle's destination blind. |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
In the message ...
"Brimstone" wrote: John Rowland wrote: "Brimstone" wrote in message ... John Rowland wrote: But Tramlink is not a road service, it's a rail service. District Line trains to Wimbledon have never, AFAIK, had a BR symbol on the destination blind, so why would you expect Tramlink to have one? But LT/LU maps have long had an indication on their maps of an interchange facility with the mainline railway. And so do Tramlink maps. So what's your point? That there are methods of indicating interchange facilities without it being on the vehicle's destination blind. Indeed, and I am very favorably impressed by the 'semi-geographic' style of display currently used at key points on the London bus network. But it's very noticable that a significant proportion of passengers still seek confirmation from the driver that the bus is actually going where they want to get to. On Tramlink, the dot matrix displays at stops provide valuable real-time information - but in a very compressed form because of their limited capacity - so that they fall back to the advice to observe the tram's destinantion blind. In fact, it was because *the trams' destination blinds closely resemble those on buses* (rather than the scrolling dot-matix displays on the latest EMUs) that I wondered why the double-arrow symbol doesn't appear on them. Regards, - Alan (in Brussels) |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
In message , "Alan (in Brussels)"
writes Indeed, and I am very favorably impressed by the 'semi-geographic' style of display currently used at key points on the London bus network. A bit off topic I know, but I was astounded to see a display of when the next bus was due in a bus shelter in Wandsworth. London bus passengers have luxuries most of us can only dream about. -- Clive. |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
Clive Coleman wrote:
In message , "Alan (in Brussels)" writes Indeed, and I am very favorably impressed by the 'semi-geographic' style of display currently used at key points on the London bus network. A bit off topic I know, but I was astounded to see a display of when the next bus was due in a bus shelter in Wandsworth. London bus passengers have luxuries most of us can only dream about. Quite, and most of them don't realise it. All they do is whinge. |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
In message , Clive Coleman
writes A bit off topic I know, but I was astounded to see a display of when the next bus was due in a bus shelter in Wandsworth. The system is called Countdown, and about 2000 bus stops are equipped so far (which leaves an awful lot still to go - I think only well-used stops will be equipped). London bus passengers have luxuries most of us can only dream about. Of course, when Countdown goes wrong or displays the wrong times, or doesn't display any time because some bus operators have not yet equipped their vehicles, it can sometimes seem worse than no display at all - but it does seem to be getting better at our local bus stop. -- Paul Terry |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
In the message ...
"Michael Hoffman" a écrit Alan (in Brussels) wrote: On a recent trip by Tramink, I was struck by the fact that the former 'double arrow' symbol still widely used to identify National Rail stations What do you mean the "former 'double arrow' symbol?" It's still a double arrow symbol, even if it's being used for "National Rail" instead of British Rail. I'm glad to hear that. But when at Wimbledon, I noticed that it isn't used on the panel indicating the interchange facilities (where eg the the LT 'roundel' is used to point the way to the District Line platforms) ; instead, the 'generic diesel loco front' symbol (I think it may be a UIC pictogram for a railway station; it's not in the Highway Code or anywhere else I've looked) is used to flag the way to SW Trains etc. on platforms 1-8. So I suspected the double-arrow symbol might be just a relic. Regards, - Alan (in Brussels) |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Clive Coleman writes A bit off topic I know, but I was astounded to see a display of when the next bus was due in a bus shelter in Wandsworth. The system is called Countdown, and about 2000 bus stops are equipped so far (which leaves an awful lot still to go - I think only well-used stops will be equipped). London bus passengers have luxuries most of us can only dream about. Of course, when Countdown goes wrong or displays the wrong times, or doesn't display any time because some bus operators have not yet equipped their vehicles, it can sometimes seem worse than no display at all - but it does seem to be getting better at our local bus stop. I've noticed an improvement in Countdown information too - I most often see a Countdown display at Piccadilly Circus, but I've noticed a fairly decent accuracy level at other West End stops too. I wonder if anything has changed behind the scenes? -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
In message , Paul Terry
writes Of course, when Countdown goes wrong or displays the wrong times, or doesn't display any time because some bus operators have not yet equipped their vehicles, it can sometimes seem worse than no display at all - but it does seem to be getting better at our local bus stop. I suppose that when you get two hour intervals between buses as we do before service drops off in the evening, it would be annoying to know you could have stayed at home for that extra cup of tea/coffee/alcohol. -- Clive. |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
SNIP my previous message
FYI, TfL have produced a handy guide to its pictograms, which includes the ex-BR 'double-arrow' symbol among the various 'transport modes' (but not the 'generic diesel loco front'), and is available on-line at: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/downloads/...amStandard.pdf Regards, - Alan (in Brussels) |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
In message , Clive Coleman
writes I suppose that when you get two hour intervals between buses as we do before service drops off in the evening, it would be annoying to know you could have stayed at home for that extra cup of tea/coffee/alcohol. Two sets of friends in North Yorks ("one bus a week on Thursdays") still cannot get over the fact that despite being 8 miles from the centre of London, we have buses every 3 minutes in the peak, every 5 minutes off-peak, and night buses stopping within short walking distance every 10 minutes throughout the night. A bit further up the road there are 36 buses an hour each way in the peak period. I say all this not to be boastful, but to point out that only very high-frequency operation will persuade people to move from cars to buses. I wouldn't dream of driving into central London any more, nor would any of my neighbours - the bus (+ train) is more reliable, quicker, cheaper and more pleasurable - it is MUCH easier to read the paper when on the bus than when driving, for instance, and it is rather fun to strike up the odd conversation with a stranger instead of being in the hermetically sealed mobile box that we call a car, interacting with others only by honking the horn or flashing the lights in anger. Having said all that, I fully understand why folk in outer suburban and rural areas could hardly exist without a bus - there has to be some sort of critical mass to tip the balance towards public transport. Once that happens, the results can be astonishing - something like Countdown then just becomes the icing on the cake. -- Paul Terry |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Alan (in Brussels) wrote:
generic diesel loco front Splitters! tom -- No hay banda |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Clive Coleman writes I suppose that when you get two hour intervals between buses as we do before service drops off in the evening, it would be annoying to know you could have stayed at home for that extra cup of tea/coffee/alcohol. Two sets of friends in North Yorks ("one bus a week on Thursdays") still cannot get over the fact that despite being 8 miles from the centre of London, we have buses every 3 minutes in the peak, every 5 minutes off-peak, Sounds like where i live. and night buses stopping within short walking distance every 10 minutes throughout the night. Okay, now that's impressive; i take it there are three routes, each coming every half-hour? You must live in a fairly significant suburban centre. Having said all that, I fully understand why folk in outer suburban and rural areas could hardly exist without a bus ITYM 'car', no? - there has to be some sort of critical mass to tip the balance towards public transport. Indeed. In my old 'hood, on a sunday, there is nominally 0.5 bph from the town railway station to my village, and the arrival time is more or less random. tom -- No hay banda |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
In message ,
Tom Anderson writes On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Paul Terry wrote: Two sets of friends in North Yorks ("one bus a week on Thursdays") still cannot get over the fact that despite being 8 miles from the centre of London, we have buses every 3 minutes in the peak, every 5 minutes off-peak, Sounds like where i live. and night buses stopping within short walking distance every 10 minutes throughout the night. Okay, now that's impressive; i take it there are three routes, each coming every half-hour? Yes. You must live in a fairly significant suburban centre. I live in a London borough that I think claims a higher proportion of open space than any other (Richmond). Having said all that, I fully understand why folk in outer suburban and rural areas could hardly exist without a bus ITYM 'car', no? Oops, yes! - there has to be some sort of critical mass to tip the balance towards public transport. Indeed. In my old 'hood, on a sunday, there is nominally 0.5 bph from the town railway station to my village, and the arrival time is more or less random. -- Paul Terry |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Tom Anderson writes On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Paul Terry wrote: Two sets of friends in North Yorks ("one bus a week on Thursdays") still cannot get over the fact that despite being 8 miles from the centre of London, we have buses every 3 minutes in the peak, every 5 minutes off-peak, and night buses stopping within short walking distance every 10 minutes throughout the night. Okay, now that's impressive; i take it there are three routes, each coming every half-hour? Yes. You must live in a fairly significant suburban centre. I live in a London borough that I think claims a higher proportion of open space than any other (Richmond). Even Waltham Forest? How about one of those godforsaken Metropolitan Kent places? :) Anyway, i take it you live within short walking distance of one of the town centres in Richmond. Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps three routes isn't as exceptional as i'd thought. There were four to where i lived in Hackney, and there are at least three to Holloway - the problem is that only one or two were ever any use to me, but that's due to the fairly narrow range of places i needed to get home from late at night! tom -- It is a formal cultural policy to show unreasonable bias towards any woman who is both attractive and wierd. |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
"Alan (in Brussels)" wrote in message
... So I suspected the double-arrow symbol might be just a relic. No, the double arrow is still used on road signs, even those pointing to brand new stations, and it is also used in conjunction with the underground roundel in brand new totems outside old interchange stations. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
In message , John Rowland
writes "Alan (in Brussels)" wrote in message ... So I suspected the double-arrow symbol might be just a relic. No it's not a relic, it means they don't know whether they're coming or going. -- Clive. |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
In message ,
Tom Anderson writes On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Paul Terry wrote: I live in a London borough that I think claims a higher proportion of open space than any other (Richmond). Even Waltham Forest? There is more than 5,000 acres of public open space in Richmond - about 14% of the total for Greater London. I believe that is a larger amount than in any other London borough: http://www.richmond.gov.uk/depts/env...ks/default.htm My point is that Richmond is an area of relatively low population density in London terms (30 per hectare, compared with 56 per hectare in Waltham Forest, for example). Despite this, much of the area can sustain high-frequency bus services. I don't want to over-simplify, though: part of the reason is that wide tracts of open parkland separate areas of quite high-density housing and that is an ideal combination for high-frequency bus routes. Anyway, i take it you live within short walking distance of one of the town centres in Richmond. Not really. We just have a lot of buses. :) -- Paul Terry |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Tom Anderson writes On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Paul Terry wrote: I live in a London borough that I think claims a higher proportion of open space than any other (Richmond). Even Waltham Forest? There is more than 5,000 acres of public open space in Richmond - about 14% of the total for Greater London. Eek! That is quite a bit. Damn you with your fancy great park! And what have we got up here? Flipping Finsbury Park is what! I don't want to over-simplify, though: part of the reason is that wide tracts of open parkland separate areas of quite high-density housing and that is an ideal combination for high-frequency bus routes. Quite! tom -- Few technologies will ever stand up to the will of adolescents trying to do things they're told they're not allowed to do. -- Scott Berkun |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:14:35 +0100, Paul Terry
wrote: Two sets of friends in North Yorks ("one bus a week on Thursdays") still cannot get over the fact that despite being 8 miles from the centre of London, we have buses every 3 minutes in the peak, every 5 minutes off-peak, and night buses stopping within short walking distance every 10 minutes throughout the night. A bit further up the road there are 36 buses an hour each way in the peak period. Some London Night Bus routes do have a wonderful service - erm no, make that a 'wonderfully high frequency'. With the N38, using from Angel for example, there are 12 buses per hour from 2am to 5am - an average of every 6 minutes - for the weeknight service. This doesn't give the whole picture are there are some odd frequencies thrown in: 2:02, 2:03 [...] 2:32, 2:33 [...] 3:02, 3:03 [...] 3:30, 3:33, 3:36, [...] 4:01, 4:03 [...] 4:33, 4:34. (From http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/use...__000022b8.pdf) -- Cheers, Jason. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet and in e-mail? |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
"Jason" wrote in message ... On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:14:35 +0100, Paul Terry wrote: Two sets of friends in North Yorks ("one bus a week on Thursdays") still cannot get over the fact that despite being 8 miles from the centre of London, we have buses every 3 minutes in the peak, every 5 minutes off-peak, and night buses stopping within short walking distance every 10 minutes throughout the night. A bit further up the road there are 36 buses an hour each way in the peak period. Some London Night Bus routes do have a wonderful service - erm no, make that a 'wonderfully high frequency'. With the N38, using from Angel for example, there are 12 buses per hour from 2am to 5am - an average of every 6 minutes - for the weeknight service. This doesn't give the whole picture are there are some odd frequencies thrown in: 2:02, 2:03 [...] 2:32, 2:33 [...] 3:02, 3:03 [...] 3:30, 3:33, 3:36, [...] 4:01, 4:03 [...] 4:33, 4:34. (From http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/use...__000022b8.pdf) -- Cheers, Jason. I just tried it and it gave a even spread of buses, also the timetable suggests they are fairly well spread http://www.busmap.org/tt4/N038.pdf Paul |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
In message ,
Tom Anderson writes I live in a London borough that I think claims a higher proportion of open space than any other (Richmond). Richmond Park, now there's a nice bit of land to concrete over and make a park and ride from. -- Clive. |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005, Clive Coleman wrote:
In message , Tom Anderson writes I live in a London borough that I think claims a higher proportion of open space than any other (Richmond). Richmond Park, now there's a nice bit of land to concrete over and make a park and ride from. Clive, you're a genius! Hang on, though - park and ride? That would mean people would leave their cars and use public transport. That's madness! Better, surely, would be to use the space - not all of it, of course - to build two or three new six-lane motorways into central London, the Richmond bypass, the Wimbledon bypass, and the Richmond bypass bypass. Perhaps the rest of it could be converted to a service area. tom -- Memes don't exist. Tell your friends. |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
In message ,
Tom Anderson writes Richmond Park, now there's a nice bit of land to concrete over and make a park and ride from. Clive, you're a genius! Hang on, though - park and ride? You think I'm joking. With the price of land so high in London surely a park and ride scheme in Richmond Park could take a LOT of cars off of the road and free up a lot of the roads further in. Just think of all those commuters from the south west. -- Clive. |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:14:35 +0100, Paul Terry wrote:
night buses stopping within short walking distance every 10 minutes throughout the night. really? -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9632840.html (A comparative rarity - 33 024 at Birmingham New Street - 7 Jun 1985) |
Rail symbol on tram destination blinds
In message , Chris Tolley
writes On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:14:35 +0100, Paul Terry wrote: night buses stopping within short walking distance every 10 minutes throughout the night. really? There are eight night buses an hour, on four different routes, so roughly 10 minutes is a reasonable guess. -- Paul Terry |
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