On 17 Jun 2005 08:24:13 -0700, "David Martin"
wrote:



Steven wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:46:10 +0100, "Dave Larrington"
wrote:

One could, however, argue that had they specified trains which could carry a
sensible number of bikes in the first place.

They *will* carry a sensible number of cycles.

They just can't cope with the number that they'd get for an event such as this.

I use Electrostars regularly, and have never seen more than two bikes in one
carriage. And that's *very* rare. You can't expect then to waste space on
providing facilities that are rarely used but would detract from the comfort and
utility of the trains for their bread and butter work.

The answer is to have trains that are flexible use. Ie carriages that
will allow bulky luggage, prams, bikes, wheelchairs etc. or hods of
standing cattle^^^^^^^commuters during crush hour. There is nothing to
be lost and everything to be gained from such a configuration. Oh,
except that people might actually use the trains with a bit more than
just a small briefcase..

You can do all that on an Electrostar.

There is a limit, however.

Just the same as there is a limit to the number of people you can squeeze on.

Steven wrote:
On 17 Jun 2005 08:24:13 -0700, "David Martin"
wrote:
I use Electrostars regularly, and have never seen more than two bikes in one
carriage. And that's *very* rare. You can't expect then to waste space on
providing facilities that are rarely used but would detract from the comfort and
utility of the trains for their bread and butter work.

The answer is to have trains that are flexible use. Ie carriages that
will allow bulky luggage, prams, bikes, wheelchairs etc. or hods of
standing cattle^^^^^^^commuters during crush hour. There is nothing to
be lost and everything to be gained from such a configuration. Oh,
except that people might actually use the trains with a bit more than
just a small briefcase..

You can do all that on an Electrostar.

Where do I find one of these mythical beasts? Any online plans as to
the internal layout, and how many bikes will one take.

There is a limit, however.

Just the same as there is a limit to the number of people you can squeeze on.

Indeed. Space inside a train is not infinite. But it is a bit galling
to be told you cannot take a bike because there are already two on
board and over half the seats are empty (or the train is so choc-a-bloc
with peoples suitcases)

...d

"David Martin" wrote in message
oups.com...

Where do I find one of these mythical beasts? Any online plans as to
the internal layout, and how many bikes will one take.

Each Electrostar will take (officially) two bicycles in the marked area for
bicycles, wheelchairs etc. (look for the cycle/wheelchair symbols on the
outside of the doors). Most trains are formed of more than one Electrostar
unit (for example, in the peaks Brighton trains are formed of four three-car
units, theoretically offering at least eight cycle spaces). In practise, on
most services out of the peak, no-one will object to additional bicycles
being parked in the vestibule areas. I, for one, have never had a problem
when travelling with a cycle.

Being both a cyclist and a railway enthusiast it is interesting to see the
arguments presented from both viewpoints. For quite a while now there have
been many complaints about the fact the the Electrostar and Turbostar (the
diesel version) devote one third of an entire coach to the disabled-access
toilet, the five (or less, depends on the specification by the train
operating company) tip-up seats that can be used as wheelchair spaces or for
people travelling with wheelchair passengers and the cycle stowage areas.
Critics regularly point out that there is no need for more than one
disabled-access toilet per train and that when trains are formed of more
than one unit there is an over-provision of such accommodation, where normal
seating could be provided. Nice in theory but how do you cater for flexible
train lengths using fixed-formation trains, where you have the regulatory
requirement to provide disabled accomodation, whether the train is a
three-car unit or a twelve-car formation?

In ,
Jack Taylor typed:

.... there have been many complaints about the fact the the
Electrostar and Turbostar (the diesel version) devote one third of an
entire coach to the disabled-access toilet,

A third??

The Electrostars and Turbostars that you travel on must be very different
from those that work everywhere else?



--
Bob

"Bob Wood" wrote in message
...
In ,
Jack Taylor typed:

.... there have been many complaints about the fact the the
Electrostar and Turbostar (the diesel version) devote one third of an
entire coach to the disabled-access toilet,

A third??

The Electrostars and Turbostars that you travel on must be very different
from those that work everywhere else?

Yes, there's such a significant difference between a quarter and a third,
isn't there? ;-)

It's the repeated incorrect references to 1/3 and 2/3 doors that tends to
make you think in thirds!

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 12:11:10 GMT, "Jack Taylor"
wrote:

Yes, there's such a significant difference between a quarter and a third,
isn't there? ;-)

It doesn't take a quarter of the coach, either. It takes about 2 bays
(or 5-6 one-side rows of airlines) which is quite a bit less.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...

It doesn't take a quarter of the coach, either. It takes about 2 bays
(or 5-6 one-side rows of airlines) which is quite a bit less.

We weren't discussing the size of the disabled toilet - we were discussing
the area taken up by the disabled toilet, the seating reserved for
wheelchair passengers and their companions and for bicycle stowage, which is
the entire area between one vestibule and the corridor connection at the end
of the vehicle.

On 17 Jun 2005 09:21:50 -0700, "David Martin"
wrote:

You can do all that on an Electrostar.

Where do I find one of these mythical beasts?

London Victoria Station.

There are lots there.

Indeed. Space inside a train is not infinite. But it is a bit galling
to be told you cannot take a bike because there are already two on
board and over half the seats are empty (or the train is so choc-a-bloc
with peoples suitcases)

It is annoying when people apply regulations that are designed for worst case
loading for a lightly loaded train, but they can't really spend a lot of time
second guessing how many people are going to get on down the line.