On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 23:39:04 +0100, Colin McKenzie
wrote:

And it wouldn't take an enormous change in the relative costs of fuel
and labour for RMs to be more economical per passenger mile than heavy
modern buses.

Perhaps - but in such circumstances couldn't a modern, lightweight OPO
bus be designed? Crew operation isn't really relevant to that
question, surely?

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Neil Williams ) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying :

couldn't a modern, lightweight OPO bus be designed?

It would seem not.

A modern double decker is about 150% the weight of an RM.
A bloatibus is about 250% the weight.

Crew operation isn't really relevant to that question, surely?

It's one of the excuses being used.

On 30 Jun 2005 07:34:20 GMT, Adrian wrote:

Neil Williams ) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying :

couldn't a modern, lightweight OPO bus be designed?

It would seem not.

Is there the demand for one? I'm sure it would be technically
possible if the fuel cost became so high that it would make no sense
not to.

A modern double decker is about 150% the weight of an RM.

It's also bigger, and has either a higher passenger capacity, a
wheelchair/buggy area or more legroom. These characteristics are
considered desirable. If a modern decker was the same size as a RM, I
very much doubt it'd be a lot heavier.

A bloatibus is about 250% the weight.

And has a higher (admittedly standing) passenger capacity.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Neil Williams ) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying :

A modern double decker is about 150% the weight of an RM.

It's also bigger, and has either a higher passenger capacity, a
wheelchair/buggy area or more legroom. These characteristics are
considered desirable. If a modern decker was the same size as a RM, I
very much doubt it'd be a lot heavier.

Is a modern double 50% larger, then?

A bloatibus is about 250% the weight.

And has a higher (admittedly standing) passenger capacity.

150% higher?

Neil Williams wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 29 Jun 2005:

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 23:39:04 +0100, Colin McKenzie
wrote:

And it wouldn't take an enormous change in the relative costs of fuel
and labour for RMs to be more economical per passenger mile than heavy
modern buses.

Perhaps - but in such circumstances couldn't a modern, lightweight OPO
bus be designed? Crew operation isn't really relevant to that
question, surely?

In many ways it is, since dwell times at stops are a great deal shorter,
and also, a conductor can help someone on to a bus (say, someone with
poor sight, or who can walk, but with difficulty) in a way that a driver
cannot.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 May 2005

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:59:57 +0100, Mrs Redboots
wrote:

In many ways it is, since dwell times at stops are a great deal shorter,

Not necessarily with off-bus ticketing and front/rear doors.

and also, a conductor can help someone on to a bus (say, someone with
poor sight, or who can walk, but with difficulty) in a way that a driver
cannot.

A driver could, if he wasn't required to protect the takings[1] and
therefore could leave the cab. The safety argument is essentially the
same for a driver or a conductor (though admittedly they could assist
one another in a really serious case).

[1] These could be protected by taking ticketing completely off the
bus, or by using a farebox/automatic change machine setup whereby the
driver was not capable of influencing change given.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Neil Williams wrote to uk.transport.london on Thu, 30 Jun 2005:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:59:57 +0100, Mrs Redboots
wrote:

In many ways it is, since dwell times at stops are a great deal shorter,

Not necessarily with off-bus ticketing and front/rear doors.

Hmmm - we don't have off-bus ticketing here (other than passes/Oysters),
and the 159 still seems to take less time at stops than the other buses
do. Even at a major interchange stop like Brixton Station.

and also, a conductor can help someone on to a bus (say, someone with
poor sight, or who can walk, but with difficulty) in a way that a driver
cannot.

A driver could, if he wasn't required to protect the takings[1] and
therefore could leave the cab.

Yes, but he is, so he can't. So those unfortunate people - and, indeed,
mothers with pushchairs (I do remember conductors used to help by taking
the pushchair from me as I got on to the bus, and handing it to me as I
got off) - have to manage by themselves. As, indeed, do wheelchair
users. Someone was trying to get his wheelchair into position the other
day and was having an awful time of it, especially as he had to ask
people to move their shopping first. He got there in the end, but it
took quite a long time!

The safety argument is essentially the
same for a driver or a conductor (though admittedly they could assist
one another in a really serious case).

Granted.

[1] These could be protected by taking ticketing completely off the
bus, or by using a farebox/automatic change machine setup whereby the
driver was not capable of influencing change given.

I don't like the idea of *never* being able to buy a ticket from the
driver. Even if I had to pay a premium to do so..... although in some
countries people seem to manage very happily without.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 May 2005