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I've been pondering on what seemed wrong about my journey yesterday, and the time of events doesn't make sense unless London Underground had suspicions something was amiss. I arrived at Wood Green station at 8:30 to discover it was locked and a notice saying the service was suspended between Arnos Grove and Kings Cross. Yet the Piccadilly line bomb was at 08:50 ?! Could be coincidental problems, but it makes you wonder. Plus I then went off to Finsbury Park and ended up at Oxford Circus just as the one wet off at Edgware Road, so if they knew something was likely it would have been nice if they'd shared those ideas ! -- Edward Cowling London UK |
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Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
I've been pondering on what seemed wrong about my journey yesterday, and the time of events doesn't make sense unless London Underground had suspicions something was amiss. I arrived at Wood Green station at 8:30 to discover it was locked and a notice saying the service was suspended between Arnos Grove and Kings Cross. Yet the Piccadilly line bomb was at 08:50 ?! I received a text alert at from TfL at 08:25 announcing services were badly disrupted due to a train failure at Caladonian Road. To be honest that was probably the case, if they had suspected that was the case I'm pretty sure they would have suspended the whole service. I ended up using Seven Sisters (normally go from Turnpike Lane), by the time we got to Finsbury Park (about 09:15) announcements saying Kings Cross & Euston were closed due to the power failure. After a delay of a few minutes at Highbury & Islington trains and the station were evacuated again due to the same reason. -- Phil Richards London, UK Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk |
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Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
I've been pondering on what seemed wrong about my journey yesterday, and the time of events doesn't make sense unless London Underground had suspicions something was amiss. I arrived at Wood Green station at 8:30 to discover it was locked and a notice saying the service was suspended between Arnos Grove and Kings Cross. Yet the Piccadilly line bomb was at 08:50 ?! Could be coincidental problems, but it makes you wonder. Plus I then went off to Finsbury Park and ended up at Oxford Circus just as the one wet off at Edgware Road, so if they knew something was likely it would have been nice if they'd shared those ideas ! I was running late yesterday morning, so caught the BBC London travel bulletin around 08:55 and they said there were _ongoing_ severe delays to the Northern, Piccadilly & Bakerloo, two of which I'd normally use. I figured I'd walk to Bounds Green, see what was happening, and then back-track to Bowes Park to get WAGN into Moorgate if necessary. Funnily enough, just before I left - by which time I'd switched the TV off - a friend from Manchester texted me to ask if I was at work, which I thought was a bit odd. As it was, when I got within sight of Bounds Green I saw the gates were down, so walked straight back to Bowes Park, although there wasn't a train due for about ten minutes. Getting there, though, I found a train that "hadn't moved for ages" and eventually the driver said it would be going to Alexandra Palace and terminating there, so I decided to head home, especially after a text from a work colleague revealed she was stuck at Clapham. Walking back, the same friend who texted earlier rang to ask if I was okay, what with all the bombs going off and stuff. I suppose if I'd been more on time, I'd've ended up stuck in a tunnel either side of the K-X/RSq train that got hit.... |
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On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 11:23:29 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote: Express bus services are operating between Arnos Grove and Finchley Central, and from Bounds Green, Wood Green and Turnpike Lane to Seven Sisters. Perhaps WAGN will be able to operate some improved service to stations between New Southgate / Bowes Park and Finsbury Park or Highbury & Islington. Certainly WAGN will get displaced traffic from Bounds Green and Wood Green. Have they got the stock to increase the service frequency, though? I can't even imagine how they begin sorting out the mess below King's Cross. They are having trouble retrieving the unfortunate victims, let alone do anything else. I feel sorry for anyone who is waiting for news of their missing friends and relatives. It was rather stunning to hear Tessa Jowell admit about half an hour ago that none of the 49 dead have been officially identified yet. The only "good" aspect of this is that the 25-odd people who are known to be "missing" will be amongst them and the un-recovered at King's Cross, so the overall toll in that respect will still be 49 plus whoever is left at King's Cross, not 49 plus 25 plus King's Cross. -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
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In message , Nick Cooper
writes It was rather stunning to hear Tessa Jowell admit about half an hour ago that none of the 49 dead have been officially identified yet. There is still info coming out that is contradictory. We're told it all went off at 8:50, yet a guy is filming it happen at Edgware Road at 9:20. It's past the usual sloppy journalism phase and becoming annoying. -- Edward Cowling London UK |
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On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 18:36:08 +0100, Edward Cowling London UK
wrote: In message , Nick Cooper writes It was rather stunning to hear Tessa Jowell admit about half an hour ago that none of the 49 dead have been officially identified yet. There is still info coming out that is contradictory. We're told it all went off at 8:50, yet a guy is filming it happen at Edgware Road at 9:20. It's past the usual sloppy journalism phase and becoming annoying. At the press conference today it was categorically stated that all three Underground bomb went off within - IIRC - a 50 second time-frame. They showed screen-grabs from the Circle line software showing train positions at various stages/times. If someone's Mobile phone footage is being shown with differing time, I suspect the problem is more that the clock on their phone is wrong! -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
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"Edward Cowling London UK" wrote in message
... On a different subject; it seems unlikely the Piccadilly line is going to be operational for many weeks, if not months. Are there plans to make alternative arrangements to service the stations North of Kings Cross ? Don't know what alternative arrangements might be made, but there's little or no chance that the area of suspension will get any smaller. The only other available reversing facility on the route is at Wood Green, and this can only be used to reverse from east to west. Note that the current shuttle from Hammersmith to Paddington uses a hand-worked crossover at Royal Oak. To my knowledge this has only been used by passenger trains on one other occasion during engineering works at Edgware Road in the 1990s. This shows that LU is really trying hard to offer the best service in the difficult circumstances. |
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On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 19:26:56 +0100, "David Splett"
wrote: "Edward Cowling London UK" wrote in message ... On a different subject; it seems unlikely the Piccadilly line is going to be operational for many weeks, if not months. Are there plans to make alternative arrangements to service the stations North of Kings Cross ? Don't know what alternative arrangements might be made, but there's little or no chance that the area of suspension will get any smaller. The only other available reversing facility on the route is at Wood Green, and this can only be used to reverse from east to west. So what actually precludes a westbound train running into Wood Green, reversing (east) into the siding, then out again (west) to the eastbound platform, before heading back east again? -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
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On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 19:26:56 +0100, "David Splett"
wrote: This shows that LU is really trying hard to offer the best service in the difficult circumstances. The message is "business as usual" and everyone is working to get the network back as fast as circumstances allow. There are a lot of people involved in pushing this forward. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
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On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 10:26:39 +0100, Edward Cowling London UK
wrote: [snip] Thank you. The media still seem full of conflicting accounts of events. And it will be for many months. To be honest it would be far better to wait for proper official reports to be published. On a different subject; it seems unlikely the Piccadilly line is going to be operational for many weeks, if not months. Are there plans to make alternative arrangements to service the stations North of Kings Cross ? See my reply in an earlier thread. Other replies in this thread have captured a lot of the issues. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
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In message , Nick Cooper
writes Don't know what alternative arrangements might be made, but there's little or no chance that the area of suspension will get any smaller. The only other available reversing facility on the route is at Wood Green, and this can only be used to reverse from east to west. So what actually precludes a westbound train running into Wood Green, reversing (east) into the siding, then out again (west) to the eastbound platform, before heading back east again? The points/signals from the sidings can only be set for one route (which is into the westbound platform). -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
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On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 21:22:38 +0100, Steve Fitzgerald ]
wrote: In message , Nick Cooper writes Don't know what alternative arrangements might be made, but there's little or no chance that the area of suspension will get any smaller. The only other available reversing facility on the route is at Wood Green, and this can only be used to reverse from east to west. So what actually precludes a westbound train running into Wood Green, reversing (east) into the siding, then out again (west) to the eastbound platform, before heading back east again? The points/signals from the sidings can only be set for one route (which is into the westbound platform). I can appreciate that, having suffered many "terminating at Wood Green" trains when heading for Bounds Green in the past, but how feasible is it to reverse the set-up? I would guess that that would rest on how long the central section of the line is likely to be US.... -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
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In message , Nick Cooper
writes The points/signals from the sidings can only be set for one route (which is into the westbound platform). I can appreciate that, having suffered many "terminating at Wood Green" trains when heading for Bounds Green in the past, but how feasible is it to reverse the set-up? I would guess that that would rest on how long the central section of the line is likely to be US.... I gather some tests have been planned/undertaken today although I have no idea of the scope of them. Without any signalling alterations, it would involve scotching and clipping the point blades in position as required. So it would be a normal signalled move into the sidings, someone to secure the left hand point blade into position and then authorise the driver to make the move into the eastbound platform. In these sidings they are two separate blades so as to create a catch points effect when neither of them are set. I'm not too sure about the passenger benefits of extending to WGN only - pity we can't get to Finsbury Park, at least then we would be linked back into the network. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
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On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 22:47:38 +0100, Steve Fitzgerald ]
wrote: In message , Nick Cooper writes The points/signals from the sidings can only be set for one route (which is into the westbound platform). I can appreciate that, having suffered many "terminating at Wood Green" trains when heading for Bounds Green in the past, but how feasible is it to reverse the set-up? I would guess that that would rest on how long the central section of the line is likely to be US.... I gather some tests have been planned/undertaken today although I have no idea of the scope of them. Without any signalling alterations, it would involve scotching and clipping the point blades in position as required. So it would be a normal signalled move into the sidings, someone to secure the left hand point blade into position and then authorise the driver to make the move into the eastbound platform. In these sidings they are two separate blades so as to create a catch points effect when neither of them are set. I'm not too sure about the passenger benefits of extending to WGN only - pity we can't get to Finsbury Park, at least then we would be linked back into the network. Yes, all that work in the 1960s, and nobody thought of putting a cross-over in.... -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
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"Steve Fitzgerald" ] wrote in message ... In message , David Splett writes Don't know what alternative arrangements might be made, but there's little or no chance that the area of suspension will get any smaller. The only other available reversing facility on the route is at Wood Green, and this can only be used to reverse from east to west. I've just received a document that suggest some tests are being done today to see if using Wood Green to reverse is feasible. I have no more details on what is planned though. Steve?? Not going to happen. Currently cooking up something a bit more exciting... -- Cheers, Steve. Change from jealous to sad to reply. |
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In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes However, if they had, would it have allowed access for reversal without considerable new construction? I am more surprised in retrospect that no running connection between the Piccadilly and Victoria lines was put in which would have been trivially simple. There is a connection both east/northbound and west/southbound between the Picc and Victoria lines for engineers trains. As the signalling systems are so different from each other (the Victoria is automatic), it would not be possible to run 73 stock on the Vic. or 67 stock on the Picc. other than under a total possession. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
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In article , Steve Fitzgerald
] writes There is a connection both east/northbound and west/southbound between the Picc and Victoria lines for engineers trains. As the signalling systems are so different from each other (the Victoria is automatic), it would not be possible to run 73 stock on the Vic. or 67 stock on the Picc. other than under a total possession. 67 stock can be fitted with tripcocks; somewhere I have the exact rules for trains moving between the two lines and cutting various bits of kit in and out. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
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In article , ] (Steve
Fitzgerald) wrote: In message , Colin Rosenstiel writes However, if they had, would it have allowed access for reversal without considerable new construction? I am more surprised in retrospect that no running connection between the Piccadilly and Victoria lines was put in which would have been trivially simple. There is a connection both east/northbound and west/southbound between the Picc and Victoria lines for engineers trains. As the signalling systems are so different from each other (the Victoria is automatic), it would not be possible to run 73 stock on the Vic. or 67 stock on the Picc. other than under a total possession. Hmm. I don't recall seeing those connections on line diagrams from the days when the Victoria Line was built. I appreciate the signalling incompatibilities. My point wasn't relevant to the current Piccadilly problems. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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In message , Clive D. W. Feather
writes There is a connection both east/northbound and west/southbound between the Picc and Victoria lines for engineers trains. As the signalling systems are so different from each other (the Victoria is automatic), it would not be possible to run 73 stock on the Vic. or 67 stock on the Picc. other than under a total possession. 67 stock can be fitted with tripcocks; somewhere I have the exact rules for trains moving between the two lines and cutting various bits of kit in and out. Quite true as this is (was?) frequently done to move these trains to and from Acton works. I doubt very much we would see them in public service in this condition though. Mind you as we're now going to be another 3 car unit short who knows what they might come up with? Another bit of useless information is that the tripcock tester on the south bound Victoria is the only one on the combine actually linked into the signalling system - if a train fails the tripcock test here, the signaller can't set the route onto the Westbound Picc. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
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Edward Cowling London UK wrote: In message , Nick Cooper writes It was rather stunning to hear Tessa Jowell admit about half an hour ago that none of the 49 dead have been officially identified yet. There is still info coming out that is contradictory. We're told it all went off at 8:50, yet a guy is filming it happen at Edgware Road at 9:20. It's past the usual sloppy journalism phase and becoming annoying. This is very odd to me. I can understand two blasts reported within five minutes initially being treated as distinct times due to initial confusion. But 20 minutes? Anyone on their way to work knows the difference between "a little before 9" and a "quarter past 9".... it's the difference between getting to work on time and having to come up with a valid excuse. I wonder if any survivors have been interviewed with respect to the time they recall their train stopping? Even with the change in reported timeline, you still only need 2 guys to do all this damage. One guy gets on at King's Cross, rides a stop and drops a package on Circle line eastbound, gets off, grabs a Circle Line going westbound for one stop, drops a package and gets off at King's Cross .... he would even have time for the bus. The Picadilly Line would have to be a second person because of the timing. He would certainly have time to get the bus also. Edward Cowling London UK |
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In article ,
Edward Cowling London UK wrote: In message , Nick Cooper writes It was rather stunning to hear Tessa Jowell admit about half an hour ago that none of the 49 dead have been officially identified yet. There is still info coming out that is contradictory. We're told it all went off at 8:50, yet a guy is filming it happen at Edgware Road at 9:20. It's past the usual sloppy journalism phase and becoming annoying. You've got that back to front. It was initially reported by the Metropolitan Police as 09.17, but the guy filming on the train showed it was 08.50. The Met police later corrected their time to 08.50, and said that 09.17 was the time of a phone call to the control centre. Apparently other witnesses report that the police were already in attendance by this time. So I guess it was a police error not a journalist error. David |
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Paul Terry wrote:
Since they were relatively small, I think it is possible they were placed under a seat. It doesn't look like it, though. r. |
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In article .com,
() wrote: Colin Rosenstiel wrote: In article . com, () wrote: The Picadilly Line would have to be a second person because of the timing. He would certainly have time to get the bus also. Why? The Circle Line trains had long left King's Cross by the time the Piccadilly train left there. The train bombs all went off at 08:50. They could have been planted on trains leaving King's Cross at about 08:42 (both on the Circle Line) and only just before 08:50 (Piccadilly). Since the timetable running times from King's Cross to Edgware Road and Liverpool Street were both 8 minutes in the information I have you'd have to check the actual running times on the day to see if one person could in practice have planted both bombs. I am making an assumption the Circle Line bombs were not merely dropped by the doors because you have too many stops for someone to become suspicious and possibly remove the package. Since they were relatively small, I think it is possible they were placed under a seat. Indeed, except there is no under-seat space on C stock. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
if one person could in practice have planted both bombs. How easy would it be for someone to get on a carriage and off at the next stop, leaving a bag, without looking suspicious? I would have thought that they'd need to stay on a couple of stops at least until the "his bag" information drops out of enough of the other passengers short term memory. If a bomber needs to stay on for four or five stops, to avoid looking too suspiciuos, do these one/two bomber scenarios still work? #Paul |
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Joel Rowbottom wrote:
Paul Terry wrote: Since they were relatively small, I think it is possible they were placed under a seat. It doesn't look like it, though. r. I'm not entirely sure you *can* place things "under a seat" in a Tube carriage - excepting the fold-down seats on the Picc of course. Picc? Northern and Jubilee, surely? |
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The seats do lift - the IRA planted at least one bomb under the seat of
a train. Subsequently the seats were "secured" closed with a tamper evident security loop. Dave Newt wrote: Joel Rowbottom wrote: Paul Terry wrote: Since they were relatively small, I think it is possible they were placed under a seat. It doesn't look like it, though. r. I'm not entirely sure you *can* place things "under a seat" in a Tube carriage - excepting the fold-down seats on the Picc of course. Picc? Northern and Jubilee, surely? |
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In message , at
14:25:46 on Mon, 11 Jul 2005, Joel Rowbottom remarked: I'm not entirely sure you *can* place things "under a seat" in a Tube carriage Correct. - excepting the fold-down seats on the Picc of course. Which fold-up the moment you stop sitting on them... -- Roland Perry |
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Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 14:25:46 on Mon, 11 Jul 2005, Joel Rowbottom remarked: I'm not entirely sure you *can* place things "under a seat" in a Tube carriage Correct. - excepting the fold-down seats on the Picc of course. Which fold-up the moment you stop sitting on them... -- Roland Perry According to Clive's incredibly detailed site about the Underground http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/ Trains on the Piccadilly Line are "operated by 1973 Tube Stock, designed with extra luggage space for airport travellers." So no need to be on the train, just drop it in the luggage space. WRT to the Circle Line trains, it appears that the Inner Platform at KXSP allows for placement near a door in both directions that is not used again for several stops. That means that the bomb would be on the righthand side (facing front) of the eastbound train and the lefthand side (facing front) of the westbound train. According to the BBC picture of the eastbound train, it certainly appears like the bomb blast is on the righthand side. Questions: How likely is it for two Circle Line trains to be within a minute of each other at KXSP between 8:30 and 9:00 in the morning? How long to get from the middle of the Circle Line platform to the bottom of the escalator on the southern end of the Piccadilly line? If you are at the top of the escalator and a Piccadilly train is arriving at the station, would you know it before you got to the bottom of the escalator? In other words, if you were at the top of the escalator and a train was arriving or pulling in to the station could you be certain to get to the train before it left? If you are familiar with the station, how far in advance of a train's appearance do you know one is arriving? Is there a signal, is there a breeze, or do you just hear it coming? |
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In message .com, at
08:45:55 on Tue, 12 Jul 2005, remarked: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 14:25:46 on Mon, 11 Jul 2005, Joel Rowbottom remarked: I'm not entirely sure you *can* place things "under a seat" in a Tube carriage Correct. - excepting the fold-down seats on the Picc of course. Which fold-up the moment you stop sitting on them... -- Roland Perry According to Clive's incredibly detailed site about the Underground http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/ Trains on the Piccadilly Line are "operated by 1973 Tube Stock, designed with extra luggage space for airport travellers." So no need to be on the train, just drop it in the luggage space. Yes, this is the luggage space of which I have spoken. And into which the fold-down seats fold if (a) there's no luggage in the way, and (b) there are no standing passengers in the way. As you may be able to deduce, this is not a *dedicated* luggage area, just an extra large vestibule. WRT to the Circle Line trains, it appears that the Inner Platform at KXSP allows for placement near a door in both directions that is not used again for several stops. That means that the bomb would be on the righthand side (facing front) of the eastbound train Assuming the person doing the front-facing is inside the train. (Rather than stood ahead of the train facing the [approaching] front of the train. and the lefthand side (facing front) of the westbound train. No, that would be the righthand side too. According to the BBC picture of the eastbound train, it certainly appears like the bomb blast is on the righthand side. Questions: How likely is it for two Circle Line trains to be within a minute of each other at KXSP between 8:30 and 9:00 in the morning? Do you mean "Circle line trains" , or "trains on the Circle line"? The track is used by Circle Line trains, Metropolitan Line Trains and Hammersmith and City line trains. If the former, it's extremely unlikely. If the latter, it's very likely. (Noting that perhaps one in six trains on the tracks are likely to be Circle rather than Metropolitan or H&C). How long to get from the middle of the Circle Line platform to the bottom of the escalator on the southern end of the Piccadilly line? Five minutes perhaps. Remembering that the station is currently under a huge reconstruction programme, and you have to make a detour to get from what is in effect one completely separate station to another. And assuming the down Piccadilly escalator is in service (they break down quite frequently) and assuming the staff were allowing people down (there were earlier reported problems with trains on the Piccadilly line, and people are commonly prevented from descending to platform level as a crowd control exercise). You would need to be very "pushy" (and therefore rather obvious) to do it any faster than the milling crowds would otherwise let you. If you are at the top of the escalator and a Piccadilly train is arriving at the station, would you know it before you got to the bottom of the escalator? No. It's a relatively long escalator and you can't see or hear. You also can't tell from the number of passengers coming up the escalator because it's shared with the Northern Line, and in any event the place is so full of passengers at that time of the morning. In other words, if you were at the top of the escalator and a train was arriving or pulling in to the station could you be certain to get to the train before it left? No you wouldn't. But it doesn't matter because there will be another train 90 seconds behind. Indeed, even if you are at the bottom of the escalator at that time of the morning there is likely to be a big enough crowd on the platform that you'll need to get the 2nd or 3rd train that arrives. (My own strategy would be to move along the platform to the rear of the train in order to be better assured on getting on the next one). If you are familiar with the station, how far in advance of a train's appearance do you know one is arriving? Is there a signal, is there a breeze, or do you just hear it coming? If you are the front of the platform, you won't feel a breeze, and as the platform is slightly curved you probably won't either see or hear it until it's a carriage or two inside the station. Also, there will be a huge crowd of people which is very distracting. (At a different station, empty of passengers, at the end of the platform the train arrives from, and with a clear sight line, you might get up to 30 seconds warning). -- Roland Perry |
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Roland Perry wrote:
In message .com, at (At a different station, empty of passengers, at the end of the platform the train arrives from, and with a clear sight line, you might get up to 30 seconds warning). The dot matrix displays provide a pretty good indication too... (except in the case where there are major delays). Pete. |
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Roland Perry wrote in uk.transport.london on Tue, 12 Jul 2005 17:06:27
+0100 .com: In message .com, at 08:45:55 on Tue, 12 Jul 2005, remarked: How long to get from the middle of the Circle Line platform to the bottom of the escalator on the southern end of the Piccadilly line? Five minutes perhaps. Remembering that the station is currently under a huge reconstruction programme, and you have to make a detour to get from what is in effect one completely separate station to another. As a reasonably frequent user of Kings Cross (albeit only a couple of times a month on the tube side) I'd be struggling to recall the quickest route between the two platforms immediately prior to last Thursday. -- Dave Hillam "Then old Nobodaddy aloft, Farted & belchd & coughd And said: I love hanging & drawing & quartering Every bit as well as war & slaughtering" |
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On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 15:42:09 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote: In message , at 14:25:46 on Mon, 11 Jul 2005, Joel Rowbottom remarked: I'm not entirely sure you *can* place things "under a seat" in a Tube carriage Correct. - excepting the fold-down seats on the Picc of course. Which fold-up the moment you stop sitting on them... There are NO tip up or fold up seats on 1973 stock which is used on the Picc Line. Only the Northern Line has tip up seats in vestibule areas while the Met Main stock has the old guards seats that certainly used to tip down in the coach ends in the driving cars. There are larger stand back areas and there is a fabric "bum perch" provided in this area on the 73 stock. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
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"Roland Perry" wrote in message y.com... In message , at 14:25:46 on Mon, 11 Jul 2005, Joel Rowbottom remarked: I'm not entirely sure you *can* place things "under a seat" in a Tube carriage Correct. - excepting the fold-down seats on the Picc of course. Which fold-up the moment you stop sitting on them... There are *no* fold down seats of any sort in the cars of Piccadilly Line 73ts... -- Cheers, Steve. Change from jealous to sad to reply. |
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