Ed Lake wrote:
Everything I've seen says the London blasts could have been the work of
a lone terrorist.

Interesting theory. Not sure I agree with the specifics.

He could have arrived at King's Cross on the eastbound Circle Line
train, leaving the FIRST bomb on that train.

He could have placed the SECOND bomb on the westbound Circle Line train
....
Same with the THIRD bomb.
....

Okay. This sounds plausible.

Once he reached the surface, he could have walked or taken a bus to
Euston Station. (He had plenty of time.) At Euston Station he boarded a
bus and left the FOURTH bomb under a seat at the back of the upper deck.
He then exited the bus at the first stop or maybe even before it left
Euston Station.

This is where I have a problem. The journey from King Cross to Russell
Square isn't very long. None of the central London stops take a long
time. We have a couple of minutes, tops. In that time, he would have
had to have got out of Kings Cross (which takes a few minutes) walk to
the bus stop, got to the back of the top deck of the bus, and planted
the bomb. That's got to be at least 5 minutes. Why choose that bus?
Why not one heading towards the city centre from Kings Cross?

There is another scenario. It is possible that he planted the bus bomb
first. Bus to Kings Cross. People will possibly ignore a bag left
behind. Then do all the rest of the bomb planting. Do they have video
equipment on busses?

The other problem I see is that 40 pounds of explosives would be
difficult to carry without risking drawing some attention to yourself.

One other thought - The Piccadilly Line location seems a bit strange.
Options:
1. He got on on or before Caledonian Road, then got off at Kings Cross,
leaving his bag behind. Why get on in North London? It's very hard to
get there unless that's where he started.
2. He dropped a package on the train then got off. Possible but risky.
3. He stayed on the train.

In message .com, at
06:01:19 on Tue, 12 Jul 2005, remarked:
At Euston Station he boarded a
bus and left the FOURTH bomb under a seat at the back of the upper deck.
He then exited the bus at the first stop or maybe even before it left
Euston Station.

This is where I have a problem. The journey from King Cross to Russell
Square isn't very long. None of the central London stops take a long
time. We have a couple of minutes, tops. In that time, he would have
had to have got out of Kings Cross (which takes a few minutes) walk to
the bus stop, got to the back of the top deck of the bus, and planted
the bomb. That's got to be at least 5 minutes. Why choose that bus?

But the bus bomb exploded almost an hour after the train bombs, so the
amount of time he (assuming it was the same person) had to exit the
railway system and plant the bus bomb did not require any split-second
timing.

Why not one heading towards the city centre from Kings Cross?

It was.
--
Roland Perry

wrote:
Ed Lake wrote:
Everything I've seen says the London blasts could have been the work of
a lone terrorist.

Certainly no way to rule it out.


Interesting theory. Not sure I agree with the specifics.

He could have arrived at King's Cross on the eastbound Circle Line
train, leaving the FIRST bomb on that train.

He could have placed the SECOND bomb on the westbound Circle Line train
...
Same with the THIRD bomb.
...

Okay. This sounds plausible.

Once he reached the surface, he could have walked or taken a bus to
Euston Station. (He had plenty of time.) At Euston Station he boarded a
bus and left the FOURTH bomb under a seat at the back of the upper deck.
He then exited the bus at the first stop or maybe even before it left
Euston Station.

This is where I have a problem. The journey from King Cross to Russell
Square isn't very long. None of the central London stops take a long
time. We have a couple of minutes, tops. In that time, he would have
had to have got out of Kings Cross (which takes a few minutes) walk to
the bus stop, got to the back of the top deck of the bus, and planted
the bomb. That's got to be at least 5 minutes. Why choose that bus?
Why not one heading towards the city centre from Kings Cross?


Apparently the 30 bus starts off at Euston and *normally* heads back to
King's Cross. He could have got out at King's Cross walked to Euston,
caught a 30 bus with the intention of setting off a fourth bomb outside
of King's Cross as people are busy streaming out of the station. The
bus was diverted however and the bomb blew up on a side street.

There is another scenario. It is possible that he planted the bus bomb
first. Bus to Kings Cross. People will possibly ignore a bag left
behind. Then do all the rest of the bomb planting. Do they have video
equipment on busses?

I think the quickest scenario is plant the bombs on the Circle Line
starting when you have two trains relatively close in time on opposite
sides of the platform. You would have 8 to 10 minutes to walk to
Picadilly, drop a bomb in the first car and leave. Go out and walk to
Euston. Grab a bus.



The other problem I see is that 40 pounds of explosives would be
difficult to carry without risking drawing some attention to yourself.

Backpack. Wouldn't be conspicuous and remember, after the Circle Line
drop you have 20 lbs less weight. After Piccadilly, you could be
carrying as little as 15 lbs total depending on the type of backpack.

This suggests they should be looking for images of a male about 150 to
180 lb (70 to 80 kg) in good physical condition with a backpack leaving
the Circle Line platform between 8:35 and 8:45 who heads towards
Piccadilly line and then leaves Piccadilly line around 8:50. I
wouldn't be surprised if he is wearing a baseball cap for an American
sports team.

1. He got on on or before Caledonian Road, then got off at Kings Cross,
leaving his bag behind.

No way. The 3 tube bombs were simultaneous. The piccadilly certainly,
and most likely the others, would have no mobile phone signal so the
bombs were exploded on a timer or manually.

In the case of a timer, getting on a calledonian road would be
touch-and-go whether the explosion was before or after kings cross.
There's a high possibility the bomber would die. If it was a suicide
bomber, then why would he bother getting off at kings cross (perhaps a
last minute bottling out?). I think it's unlikely.

More likely that

a) Bomb placed on northbound train at half seven, remained on train to
cockfosters, not removed/noted by cleaning staff at cockfosters, and
remained on train back again.
--- unlikely that it wouldn't have been mentioned by now - surely the
cleaning staff (who routinely bin copies of the metro off the central
at Ealing) would have noticed and either raised the alarm or mentioned
it since.
b) guy that planted the picc bomb came in on piccadilly from
cockfosters way, but got off further north (caledonian road, finsbury
park), and perhaps carried into town on foot, bus or victoria line (or
even a following piccadilly), before blowing up the #30. This negates
the possibility of a single bomber for all 4 bombs though, unless there
was a major delay on the piccadilly (15 minutes magnitude, allowing
victoria line to kings x then planting on the sub-surfaces at ~08:43).

4 bombs doesn't make much sense though. Three bombs were timed to
explode at the same time, one wasn't (unless the bus bombing was in
fact several bombs that failed to get planted in time).

Ed Lake wrote:
Everything I've seen says the London blasts could have been the work of
a lone terrorist.

snip


There doesn't seem to be any reason to believe that the bombs couldn't
all have been planted by a single individual. So, that would be the
best way to start the manhunt.

Only look for more than one individual IF it can be shown that it would
have been IMPOSSIBLE for the deed to have been done by one man. If it
COULD HAVE been done by one man, there would be no reason for involving
anyone else. More people just means more risk.

snip

Verify that it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to be the work of one man before
looking for more than one person!


Interesting theory and I hope the investigators are aware of this
possibility.

But you are making a mistake if, on purely circumstantial evidence, you
dismiss the many other possibilities involving any number of people.
You could waste a lot of time concentrating too soon on one pet theory
to the exclusion of all else.

As the police say - keep an open mind.

wrote:


Ed Lake wrote:

Everything I've seen says the London blasts could have been the work of
a lone terrorist.


Interesting theory. Not sure I agree with the specifics.


He could have arrived at King's Cross on the eastbound Circle Line
train, leaving the FIRST bomb on that train.

He could have placed the SECOND bomb on the westbound Circle Line train

...

Same with the THIRD bomb.

...

Okay. This sounds plausible.


Once he reached the surface, he could have walked or taken a bus to
Euston Station. (He had plenty of time.) At Euston Station he boarded a
bus and left the FOURTH bomb under a seat at the back of the upper deck.
He then exited the bus at the first stop or maybe even before it left
Euston Station.


This is where I have a problem. The journey from King Cross to Russell
Square isn't very long. None of the central London stops take a long
time. We have a couple of minutes, tops. In that time, he would have
had to have got out of Kings Cross (which takes a few minutes) walk to
the bus stop, got to the back of the top deck of the bus, and planted
the bomb. That's got to be at least 5 minutes. Why choose that bus?
Why not one heading towards the city centre from Kings Cross?

I think you may be forgetting that there was almost an HOUR between the
times the train bombs went off and the time the bus bomb went off. He
certainly could have gotten to Euston Square very easily during that
hour. It's only a half mile away.

It appears he put the final bomb on a bus going TO King's Cross. He'd
shut down train lines going east, west and south from King's Cross, so
people would be coming out of King's Cross to get on buses. He put a
bomb on such a bus. But, beause the bus filled up at Euston and because
the King's Cross area was blocked people streaming out of the station,
the bus was diverted down Woburn Place to Tavistock where the bomb went off.

There is another scenario. It is possible that he planted the bus bomb
first. Bus to Kings Cross. People will possibly ignore a bag left
behind. Then do all the rest of the bomb planting. Do they have video
equipment on busses?

That is NOT possible. The bomb on the bus went off almost an hour AFTER
the train blasts.

The other problem I see is that 40 pounds of explosives would be
difficult to carry without risking drawing some attention to yourself.

He only had to carry 40 pounds onto the first train, 30 onto the second,
20 onto the third and 10 onto the bus.

One other thought - The Piccadilly Line location seems a bit strange.
Options:
1. He got on on or before Caledonian Road, then got off at Kings Cross,
leaving his bag behind. Why get on in North London? It's very hard to
get there unless that's where he started.
2. He dropped a package on the train then got off. Possible but risky.
3. He stayed on the train.

About the only way a single bomber could have done it is if he planted
the two Circle Line bombs first - planting the second WHILE the train as
at King's Cross, then the Picadilly Line bomb WHILE it was at King's
Cross. Then he left King's Cross and went to Euston Square.

Ed

wrote:


wrote:

Ed Lake wrote:

Everything I've seen says the London blasts could have been the work of
a lone terrorist.


Certainly no way to rule it out.


Interesting theory. Not sure I agree with the specifics.


He could have arrived at King's Cross on the eastbound Circle Line
train, leaving the FIRST bomb on that train.

He could have placed the SECOND bomb on the westbound Circle Line train

...

Same with the THIRD bomb.

...

Okay. This sounds plausible.


Once he reached the surface, he could have walked or taken a bus to
Euston Station. (He had plenty of time.) At Euston Station he boarded a
bus and left the FOURTH bomb under a seat at the back of the upper deck.
He then exited the bus at the first stop or maybe even before it left
Euston Station.

This is where I have a problem. The journey from King Cross to Russell
Square isn't very long. None of the central London stops take a long
time. We have a couple of minutes, tops. In that time, he would have
had to have got out of Kings Cross (which takes a few minutes) walk to
the bus stop, got to the back of the top deck of the bus, and planted
the bomb. That's got to be at least 5 minutes. Why choose that bus?
Why not one heading towards the city centre from Kings Cross?



Apparently the 30 bus starts off at Euston and *normally* heads back to
King's Cross. He could have got out at King's Cross walked to Euston,
caught a 30 bus with the intention of setting off a fourth bomb outside
of King's Cross as people are busy streaming out of the station. The
bus was diverted however and the bomb blew up on a side street.


There is another scenario. It is possible that he planted the bus bomb
first. Bus to Kings Cross. People will possibly ignore a bag left
behind. Then do all the rest of the bomb planting. Do they have video
equipment on busses?


I think the quickest scenario is plant the bombs on the Circle Line
starting when you have two trains relatively close in time on opposite
sides of the platform. You would have 8 to 10 minutes to walk to
Picadilly, drop a bomb in the first car and leave. Go out and walk to
Euston. Grab a bus.



The other problem I see is that 40 pounds of explosives would be
difficult to carry without risking drawing some attention to yourself.


Backpack. Wouldn't be conspicuous and remember, after the Circle Line
drop you have 20 lbs less weight. After Piccadilly, you could be
carrying as little as 15 lbs total depending on the type of backpack.

This suggests they should be looking for images of a male about 150 to
180 lb (70 to 80 kg) in good physical condition with a backpack leaving
the Circle Line platform between 8:35 and 8:45 who heads towards
Piccadilly line and then leaves Piccadilly line around 8:50. I
wouldn't be surprised if he is wearing a baseball cap for an American
sports team.

I don't know about the baseball cap, but he should be easy to spot on
the surveillance tapes because he'd be taking the next bomb out of the
bag AS HE MOVED BETWEEN TRAINS. He wouldn't have time to take it out of
the bag while ON a train if he has to get off again before it leaves.
And any such action would certainly have been noticed. He probably had
the bomb in his hand when he boarded, dropping it in a parcel bin next
to the door and leaving again.

Ed
anthraxinvestigation.com

BBC are reporting the police as saying they believe the bomber dies on
the bus. However they are not saying whether they think it was a
suicide attack. If the theory on this thread is true then the problem
of further attacks from the same source is over. Personally I don't
suscribe to that theory myself at the moment though. The police have
also carried out a controlled explosion on a car in Luton. The could
prove significant as it means the bomber(s) could have arrived at KX
and fanned out from there.

Neill

In message , at 10:23:50 on Tue, 12 Jul
2005, Ed Lake remarked:
It appears he put the final bomb on a bus going TO King's Cross.

How does this appear? The reports I've seen all say it was headed away
from Euston/Kings Cross area.
--
Roland Perry

Neillw001 wrote:
BBC are reporting the police as saying they believe the bomber dies on
the bus.

Well that would explain the witness story about an "agitated" young
man.
He knew he screwed up. If it's true, I don't get is why he didn't just
ditch the bombs and leave the bus.


However they are not saying whether they think it was a
suicide attack. If the theory on this thread is true then the problem
of further attacks from the same source is over. Personally I don't
suscribe to that theory myself at the moment though. The police have
also carried out a controlled explosion on a car in Luton. The could
prove significant as it means the bomber(s) could have arrived at KX
and fanned out from there.


Now to my thinking these controlled explosions are a bit foolish... why
destroy potential evidence?


Neill