I don't mean to depress anyone, but how would this work when the bag's owner
can set off his or her bomb at will?

The first bomb-carrier to be stopped will pull their pin immediately,
killing both the security/police wallahs and possibly many more. After that
those duties won't see either volunteers or conscientious up-close
bag-checking.

Or are we suddenly going to discover a new race of nerveless heroes who
don't mind being blown up?

It doesn't have to be in a bag. It could be on their person, or in a flask
or soft toy. The important thing is that if discovered they set the damn
thing off, which is what we _don't_ want.
There's no precaution that will serve.
If we stopped them making their grand explosive gestures they could even
start planting poison in supermarkets; that could kill hundreds more.
If this is a cultural war, they might switch to cultural targets; we could
lose the British Museum or Westminster Abbey to a feat of arson, or bombs
could go off at Glyndebourne. The LSO could be strafed with gunfire in the
middle of a concert.

There's no solution to the dedicated suicide agent.
We're in real trouble this time.

jP.

Totally agree

Even if the security on the Underground was perfect the bombers would
switch to the Overground Trains or bus stops as in Israel. All thay
have to do is find a crowd and pull the pin.

Mr Cheese wrote:
Totally agree

Even if the security on the Underground was perfect the bombers would
switch to the Overground Trains or bus stops as in Israel. All thay
have to do is find a crowd and pull the pin.

Which is why the police should shoot first and worry about questions later.

On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 08:50:31 +0000 (UTC), "Brimstone"
wrote:

Which is why the police should shoot first and worry about questions later.

Would you like it if you were an unintended target? Does it matter
whether you die by getting blown up by a terrorist or shot by the
police?

When walking around London or travelling by Tube, my normal outfit is
T-shirt, jeans/combats and a scruffy-looking medium-sized rucksack;
this I do not plan to change. It's a good job I'm not Asian,
otherwise I'd be *very* worried at this point. That's not good.

This country does not have the death penalty, and even if it did it
wouldn't be without trial. I accept there are cases where "shoot
first" is likely to be necessary, but the police need to be *very*
careful about it, and during the pursuit need to be asking a *lot* of
questions to themselves before pulling the trigger.

It is becoming apparent, it would seem, that the shooting was probably
not necessary, and the police appear to be saying precious little
about it. It is sounding to me more and more like a monumental
screw-up.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

"Brimstone" wrote in message
...
Mr Cheese wrote:
Totally agree

Even if the security on the Underground was perfect the bombers would
switch to the Overground Trains or bus stops as in Israel. All thay
have to do is find a crowd and pull the pin.

Which is why the police should shoot first and worry about questions
later.

If only it were that simple. You don't know that anything's going to happen
until something does and then the perpetrator and all around him/her know
nothing.
This sort of attack robs the security forces of a target. Unless they have
advance intelligence of the outrage, they can't do anything. Advance
intelligence will only be available in a few isolated cases because the
nature of the threat is both diverse and the element perpetrating the
attacks is fragmented into many small groups, even only owing allegiance to
one of several different leaders (and new groups and leaders are popping up
all the time). They don't really even need explosive.
Like the original poster stated, we're in real trouble this time.

George Feldsham.

Neil Williams wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 08:50:31 +0000 (UTC), "Brimstone"
wrote:

It is becoming apparent, it would seem, that the shooting was probably
not necessary, and the police appear to be saying precious little
about it. It is sounding to me more and more like a monumental
screw-up.

Best wait until the investigation has been carried out, until then we
are just guessing.
--
Bruce Fletcher
Stronsay, Orkney
www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont

Bruce Fletcher wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 08:50:31 +0000 (UTC), "Brimstone"
wrote:

It is becoming apparent, it would seem, that the shooting was
probably not necessary, and the police appear to be saying
precious little about it. It is sounding to me more and more like
a monumental screw-up.

Best wait until the investigation has been carried out, until then
we are just guessing.

The police have now admitted that the man they shot was unconnected with
the bombings.

"We believe we now know the identity of the man shot at Stockwell
Underground station by police on Friday 22nd July 2005, although he is
still subject to formal identification. We are now satisfied that he
was not connected with the incidents of Thursday 21st July 2005. For
somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one
that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4711021.stm

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:38:24 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 08:50:31 +0000 (UTC), "Brimstone"
wrote:

Which is why the police should shoot first and worry about questions later.

Would you like it if you were an unintended target?

If the police shout "stop!", I don't run away.

I don't know what this guy was actually up to, but he ran away from
police and vaulted the ticket barrier. That's no way to behave in the
current climate; it invites suspicion.

--
James Farrar

September's coming soon

On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 19:19:30 +0100, James Farrar
wrote:

Which is why the police should shoot first and worry about questions later.

Would you like it if you were an unintended target?

If the police shout "stop!", I don't run away.

I don't know what this guy was actually up to, but he ran away from
police and vaulted the ticket barrier. That's no way to behave in the
current climate; it invites suspicion.

So if you were of Asian appearance, and it was 2 weeks after some
suicide bombings and the day after some attempted ones, and BNP hatred
was at a high, and you hadn't done anything wrong at all, and suddenly
you started getting chased by a gang of white guys in jeans and
t-shirts, possibly shouting in a language you couldn't understand, you
can guarantee that you wouldn't panic and run away?

asdf wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 19:19:30 +0100, James Farrar
wrote:

Which is why the police should shoot first and worry about
questions later.

Would you like it if you were an unintended target?

If the police shout "stop!", I don't run away.

I don't know what this guy was actually up to, but he ran away from
police and vaulted the ticket barrier. That's no way to behave in
the current climate; it invites suspicion.

So if you were of Asian appearance,

The guy was Brazilian.

and it was 2 weeks after some suicide bombings and the day after
some attempted ones, and BNP hatred was at a high,

No reports of this in the Stockwell area that I've seen.

and you hadn't done anything wrong at all, and suddenly you started
getting chased by a gang of white guys in jeans and t-shirts,
possibly shouting in a language you couldn't understand, you can
guarantee that you wouldn't panic and run away?

.... and vault the ticket gates rather than seek help from uniformed
police at the station?
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)