Roland Perry wrote:
snip
I wonder why they can't simply scrap the terminating services and send
them all to Victoria instead.

Because a lot of people use them (including me)! And if they went to
Victoria you'd land in an entirely different part of town.

The terminating services at Blackfriars are not the only obstacle to
Thameslink 2000. A (if not the) major problem is the portion of double
track that passes Borough Market between London Bridge and Metropolitan
Junction (the spur that leads up to Blackfriars) - for TL2000 to work
this needs to be 4 tracked.

In addition it should be noted that it's only the Thameslink trains
coming up from Brighton and Gatwick via London Bridge that needs to
cross the path - the Thameslink services from Sutton via Herne Hill are
already on the right tracks as they go through Elephant and Castle.
Though it is of course the Thameslink services from Brighton that are
the intended beneficiaries of TL2000.

In message .com, at
09:18:37 on Fri, 5 Aug 2005, Mizter T remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
snip
I wonder why they can't simply scrap the terminating services and send
them all to Victoria instead.

Because a lot of people use them (including me)! And if they went to
Victoria you'd land in an entirely different part of town.

Boo Hoo. Change onto a train that goes to Cannon Street, or onto a
Thameslink. Most of the country can't choose which London terminus to
travel to, people sarf of the river are simply spoilt!

The terminating services at Blackfriars are not the only obstacle to
Thameslink 2000. A (if not the) major problem is the portion of double
track that passes Borough Market between London Bridge and Metropolitan
Junction (the spur that leads up to Blackfriars) - for TL2000 to work
this needs to be 4 tracked.

OK, that's two candidates for the "major problem" now (a new bridge and
station, or your double tack).

In addition it should be noted that it's only the Thameslink trains
coming up from Brighton and Gatwick via London Bridge that needs to
cross the path - the Thameslink services from Sutton via Herne Hill are
already on the right tracks as they go through Elephant and Castle.
Though it is of course the Thameslink services from Brighton that are
the intended beneficiaries of TL2000.

Indeed.
--
Roland Perry

Mizter T wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

snip
I wonder why they can't simply scrap the terminating services and send
them all to Victoria instead.


Because a lot of people use them (including me)! And if they went to
Victoria you'd land in an entirely different part of town.

Why not make them part of the TL2K thing? Instead of terminating at
Blackfriars, send them through the tunnels and on to somewhere like
Welwyn, Hertford or Letchworth.

Robin

On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 09:57:56 +0100, "R.C. Payne"
wrote:

I wonder why they can't simply scrap the terminating services and send
them all to Victoria instead.

Because a lot of people use them (including me)! And if they went to
Victoria you'd land in an entirely different part of town.

Why not make them part of the TL2K thing? Instead of terminating at
Blackfriars, send them through the tunnels and on to somewhere like
Welwyn, Hertford or Letchworth.

Exactly. Send all the services (from the Elephant & Castle direction)
that currently terminate at Blackfriars through the tunnel to
Farringdon and beyond. Terminate an equivalent number of services from
the London Bridge direction at Blackfriars. Seems a far more sensible
and sane solution than ripping apart the entire station.

In message , at 04:34:37 on
Wed, 10 Aug 2005, asdf remarked:
I wonder why they can't simply scrap the terminating services and send
them all to Victoria instead.

Because a lot of people use them (including me)! And if they went to
Victoria you'd land in an entirely different part of town.

Why not make them part of the TL2K thing? Instead of terminating at
Blackfriars, send them through the tunnels and on to somewhere like
Welwyn, Hertford or Letchworth.

Exactly. Send all the services (from the Elephant & Castle direction)
that currently terminate at Blackfriars through the tunnel to
Farringdon and beyond. Terminate an equivalent number of services from
the London Bridge direction at Blackfriars. Seems a far more sensible
and sane solution than ripping apart the entire station.

Then you wouldn't get the through services from Gatwick (and other
planned destinations) to north of the river, as they mainly go via
London Bridge.

On the other hand, adding some of the "via elephant" destinations to the
through trains doesn't seem too much of an issue, although maybe there's
not the capacity through the tunnels for them.
--
Roland Perry

Yes it is a capacity problem. It is planned to push 24 trains per
hour each direction through the tunnel. 18 of those will be via London
Bridge, the other 6 obviously via The Elephant. There are no pathways
available for SET trains that currently terminate at Blackfriars. And
those that go through the core will be of the New Thameslink Franchise
(the presnt Thamelsink merged with WAGN).




On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 08:18:44 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 04:34:37 on
Wed, 10 Aug 2005, asdf remarked:
I wonder why they can't simply scrap the terminating services and send
them all to Victoria instead.

Because a lot of people use them (including me)! And if they went to
Victoria you'd land in an entirely different part of town.

Why not make them part of the TL2K thing? Instead of terminating at
Blackfriars, send them through the tunnels and on to somewhere like
Welwyn, Hertford or Letchworth.

Exactly. Send all the services (from the Elephant & Castle direction)
that currently terminate at Blackfriars through the tunnel to
Farringdon and beyond. Terminate an equivalent number of services from
the London Bridge direction at Blackfriars. Seems a far more sensible
and sane solution than ripping apart the entire station.

Then you wouldn't get the through services from Gatwick (and other
planned destinations) to north of the river, as they mainly go via
London Bridge.

On the other hand, adding some of the "via elephant" destinations to the
through trains doesn't seem too much of an issue, although maybe there's
not the capacity through the tunnels for them.


Life without sex just isn't life.
Make love not war!

In message , at 08:19:40 on
Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Christine remarked:
those that go through the core will be of the New Thameslink Franchise
(the presnt Thamelsink merged with WAGN).

I see that this is creaking into existence once more (it's only been
postponed three times already). Will trains from the GN lines continue
to terminate at Kings Cross, until the Thameslink works are complete, or
will some of them start going through?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:

I see that this is creaking into existence once more (it's only been
postponed three times already). Will trains from the GN lines continue
to terminate at Kings Cross, until the Thameslink works are complete, or
will some of them start going through?

The map on the National Express Group website shows the GN and existing
Thameslink routes as continuing to be self-contained, albeit coming
tantalisingly close at KX and Moorgate:

http://www.nationalexpressgroup.com/...hise_route.pdf

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 08:18:44 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

Exactly. Send all the services (from the Elephant & Castle direction)
that currently terminate at Blackfriars through the tunnel to
Farringdon and beyond. Terminate an equivalent number of services from
the London Bridge direction at Blackfriars. Seems a far more sensible
and sane solution than ripping apart the entire station.

Then you wouldn't get the through services from Gatwick (and other
planned destinations) to north of the river, as they mainly go via
London Bridge.

You still would, as the number of services via Elephant terminating at
Blackfriars is relatively small, so running them through the tunnel
would only displace a proportion of the London Bridge services. Unless
the plans involve significantly increasing SET services to
Blackfriars?

I really don't see why heaven and earth need to be moved just so that
a few people coming from one direction have to change trains instead
of a few people coming from the other direction. Especially with the
huge cost of the project threatening its very viability.

In message , at 15:54:35 on
Wed, 10 Aug 2005, asdf remarked:

Exactly. Send all the services (from the Elephant & Castle direction)
that currently terminate at Blackfriars through the tunnel to
Farringdon and beyond. Terminate an equivalent number of services from
the London Bridge direction at Blackfriars. Seems a far more sensible
and sane solution than ripping apart the entire station.

Then you wouldn't get the through services from Gatwick (and other
planned destinations) to north of the river, as they mainly go via
London Bridge.

You still would, as the number of services via Elephant terminating at
Blackfriars is relatively small, so running them through the tunnel
would only displace a proportion of the London Bridge services. Unless
the plans involve significantly increasing SET services to
Blackfriars?

I really don't see why heaven and earth need to be moved just so that
a few people coming from one direction have to change trains instead
of a few people coming from the other direction. Especially with the
huge cost of the project threatening its very viability.

Apparently there are too many trains, and so the somewhat small number
that terminate at Blackfriars can't make it through the tunnels. I agree
that these issues shouldn't hold up the whole project, hence my original
suggestion that the surplus trains be sent to Victoria, or in the last
resort, scrapped altogether.
--
Roland Perry