Thameslink 2000 is desperately needed but is being held up by funding
and the demolition of buildings in Borough.

The project page on http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/23 states:

"The huge problem with Thameslink 2000 is the cost which is now around
£3bn. This is mainly due to the cost of rebuilding Blackfriars station
and the new viaduct north of London Bridge to increase capacity."

I can understand the need to increase through capacity at London
Bridge, but why does blackfriars need to be rebuilt? It already has 2
through platforms, which is the same as St Pauls Thameslink just to the
north.

Can't Thameslink 2000 be done without rebuilding blackfriars? Extending
the exsiting platforms to the southbank would not be too diffciult
either.

In article .com,
writes
I can understand the need to increase through capacity at London
Bridge, but why does blackfriars need to be rebuilt? It already has 2
through platforms,

Right now the trains that arrive from the south on the western pair of
tracks use the eastern platforms, while those using the eastern pair
(the Thameslink ones from London Bridge) use the western pair. With the
increased traffic of TL2k this just isn't viable.

So Blackfriars needs to be turned inside out so that the Thameslink
platforms are the easternmost ones. Since their position is constrained
by the link to City Thameslink, this means moving the terminating
platforms to the west side which, in effect, means building a new
station *and* bridge across the Thames.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In message .com, at
07:46:53 on Fri, 5 Aug 2005, remarked:
"The huge problem with Thameslink 2000 is the cost which is now around
£3bn. This is mainly due to the cost of rebuilding Blackfriars station
and the new viaduct north of London Bridge to increase capacity."

I can understand the need to increase through capacity at London
Bridge, but why does blackfriars need to be rebuilt?

Isn't it because with the current track layout all the through and
terminating trains have to cross one another's path?

(All the terminating services go to/from Elephant and Castle, and almost
all the TL2K services go via London Bridge).

I wonder why they can't simply scrap the terminating services and send
them all to Victoria instead.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
snip
I wonder why they can't simply scrap the terminating services and send
them all to Victoria instead.

Because a lot of people use them (including me)! And if they went to
Victoria you'd land in an entirely different part of town.

The terminating services at Blackfriars are not the only obstacle to
Thameslink 2000. A (if not the) major problem is the portion of double
track that passes Borough Market between London Bridge and Metropolitan
Junction (the spur that leads up to Blackfriars) - for TL2000 to work
this needs to be 4 tracked.

In addition it should be noted that it's only the Thameslink trains
coming up from Brighton and Gatwick via London Bridge that needs to
cross the path - the Thameslink services from Sutton via Herne Hill are
already on the right tracks as they go through Elephant and Castle.
Though it is of course the Thameslink services from Brighton that are
the intended beneficiaries of TL2000.

In message .com, at
09:18:37 on Fri, 5 Aug 2005, Mizter T remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
snip
I wonder why they can't simply scrap the terminating services and send
them all to Victoria instead.

Because a lot of people use them (including me)! And if they went to
Victoria you'd land in an entirely different part of town.

Boo Hoo. Change onto a train that goes to Cannon Street, or onto a
Thameslink. Most of the country can't choose which London terminus to
travel to, people sarf of the river are simply spoilt!

The terminating services at Blackfriars are not the only obstacle to
Thameslink 2000. A (if not the) major problem is the portion of double
track that passes Borough Market between London Bridge and Metropolitan
Junction (the spur that leads up to Blackfriars) - for TL2000 to work
this needs to be 4 tracked.

OK, that's two candidates for the "major problem" now (a new bridge and
station, or your double tack).

In addition it should be noted that it's only the Thameslink trains
coming up from Brighton and Gatwick via London Bridge that needs to
cross the path - the Thameslink services from Sutton via Herne Hill are
already on the right tracks as they go through Elephant and Castle.
Though it is of course the Thameslink services from Brighton that are
the intended beneficiaries of TL2000.

Indeed.
--
Roland Perry

Clive D. W. Feather wrote:

Right now the trains that arrive from the south on the western pair of
tracks use the eastern platforms, while those using the eastern pair
(the Thameslink ones from London Bridge) use the western pair. With the
increased traffic of TL2k this just isn't viable.

So Blackfriars needs to be turned inside out so that the Thameslink
platforms are the easternmost ones. Since their position is constrained
by the link to City Thameslink, this means moving the terminating
platforms to the west side which, in effect, means building a new
station *and* bridge across the Thames.

Thanks. I think then it might be cheaper to build new platforms over
the old piers (to the west of the station) for the southern trains, but
leave the existing station as it is, rather than demolishing the
station almost completely.

On Fri, 5 Aug 2005 16:52:08 +0100, Roland Perry
said:

I wonder why they can't simply scrap the terminating services and send
them all to Victoria instead.

Victoria is pretty damned busy.

--
David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

In message , at 20:32:50 on
Fri, 5 Aug 2005, David Cantrell remarked:
I wonder why they can't simply scrap the terminating services and send
them all to Victoria instead.

Victoria is pretty damned busy.

And Blackfriars is pretty small. You can't make an omelette without
breaking a few eggs, and if this is causing a billion pounds worth of
expenditure that's scuppering the whole Thameslink project it's time
some hard decisions were made.

--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 20:32:50 on
Fri, 5 Aug 2005, David Cantrell remarked:

I wonder why they can't simply scrap the terminating services and send
them all to Victoria instead.


Victoria is pretty damned busy.
snip

it's time some hard decisions were made.



Er - forget the whole thing?

--

Mark²³

In message , at 07:07:36 on Sat, 6 Aug
2005, Mark²³ remarked:
I wonder why they can't simply scrap the terminating services and
send
them all to Victoria instead.


Victoria is pretty damned busy.
snip

it's time some hard decisions were made.

Er - forget the whole thing?

You can't "forget Thameslink 2k" just because a few commuters who
currently use Blackfriars are stuck in their ways. I'm sure there are
other suitable routes/trains for them to get to work.
--
Roland Perry