In ,
TKD typed:

It hasn't worked for me once. The last piece of advice I got was to
touch in at the barriers at Kings Cross TL and touch the validator on
the
platform. When arriving at London Bridge, touch the validator on the
platform and then touch out through the barriers (so touch-in/out
twice at each
end).

I don't think you need to touch the platform validator at KXTL. This
would only be needed if you arrived at KXTL from somewhere else on
another ticket.


--
Bob

It hasn't worked for me once. The last piece of advice I got was to
touch in at the barriers at Kings Cross TL and touch the validator on the
platform. When arriving at London Bridge, touch the validator on the
platform and then touch out through the barriers (so touch-in/out twice at each
end).

I don't think you need to touch the platform validator at KXTL. This would only be needed if you
arrived at KXTL from somewhere else on another ticket.

That is what I assumed but the Oyster helpline person told me the barriers
at Kings Cross TL only let you through, they don't record the start of your
journey and you have to touch the validator.

Either way it didn't work for me so I only use TL if I have a weekly on my
card.

"James Farrar" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 8 Oct 2005 21:39:31 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

Many Americans can't tell the difference (in
accent) between English and Australian.

And many English people can't tell the
difference between American and Canadian.

The USA and Canada are a millimetre apart. England and Australia are not.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 00:15:26 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote:
My group this weekend were on what was essentially a theatre break and
many of them do the same thing several times a year. And yet I
estimate that 80% of them went no further than they could walk from Park
Lane this morning (bearing in mind we dropped them off there at about
1030 and picked them up at 1500). Coming back to the coach, four
ladies managed to get lost between Hyde Park Corner and the coach which
was parked near the new "Animals at War" monument near Upper Brook
Street.

Do you have a theory as to why this is? Are they just nervous about
being in a big city, frightened they are going to be robbed or just have
no sense of direction and thus are likely to get lost?
They often seem not to understand London's vast size, strangely enough.
I'm regularly asked how far it us to "the centre" or "the shops" as
though we were talking about Norwich or Saint Helens or somewhere much
smaller. The concept of a multiple-centred city seems not to occur to
some.

As for the theory, I think all the things you suggest there can be
factors. I'd add to that fear of being blown up now, too.

There are also *many* people from other parts of the UK who *never* use
public transport and I think that that can be a BIG factor.

Although it may seem otherwise, I'm not painting these people out to be
dim or stupid but just trying to explain that what probably seems
commonplace to people on utl can seem very, very unfamiliar to people
who are strangers to London.

I appreciate you are not being cruel about these people but it does make
me wonder how they cope in doing other basic life tasks - assuming they
are not disabled in some way.
Maybe because they only ever do things in a routine. Exploring new
places is off the agenda for a lot of people.

While there is always a learning curve in
any new city - Rome's ticketing system and its buses were a good example
of that for me recently - it's normally quite easy to do a bit of
research, read a guide book, ask some "dumb" questions and off you go.
Do your clients not do any of this?
Often not, no!

I ought to point out, though, that maybe by definition of what I do a
lot of people I encounter *don't* go off to do things on their own.
They join someone like me to show it to them in a particular way. If I
wanted to discover London, I'd do it by ordinary London Bus and spot
things as I go. Fortunately for my wallet, other people prefer to pay
someone else to do it for them!

And yes, slapping an Oyster Card on a yellow disc *would* intimidate
some!

Having seen people trying to feed Oyster cards into both the entry and
exit slots on ticket gates I would agree.
Someone in a shop told me recently that when they ask people if they
have a PIN for their Credit Cards, a lot of people promptly recite it to
them!

I also had problems getting
the "swipe speed" correct for New York's Metrocard when I used it a few
years ago. That made me feel a bit of a dimbo!
Yes we all do these things!
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

In message , Dave Hillam
] writes
The arcane art of getting on buses has been something that seems to
elude even people who have lived and worked in London for most of their
life. One friend who has just retired regards the red omnibus as the
work of the devil, despite having a strong preference for public
transport in general.
When I was training as a guide, I always travelled around central London
by 'bus, unless time was such that I had to take the Tube. I did this
because I was having to get a "feel" for the geography of London.
Where buildings are in relation to one another, time taken to drive past
and - yes- for the pleasure of it!

All of my fellow students thought I was at the very least a bit strange
for doing this.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:59:22 +0100, Paul Terry
wrote:

In message , TKD
writes

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...

You cannot use pre-pay Oyster on South-West Trains (or on most other
National Rail services in London), so the only part of the journey
covered by Oyster is the bus and tube journeys. That comes to £5.90,
which is well below the £8 cap for peak-time travel in both Zones 1-4.

You would come under the Zone 1 cap as all your tube use is in Zone 1.
Bus journeys ignore zones and are included in any capped tube price even
if the bus journey was in a totally different zone to the tube cap.

Not sure what that makes your cap without looking it up.

The Peak Zone 1 cap is £6, so £5.40 (sorry, its not £5.90) still
wouldn't reach the cap. Thus Oyster remains almost 50% more expensive
for the journey I have described.

If you cared about costs, you'd get the District line from Richmond...

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:13:42 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:

"James Farrar" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 8 Oct 2005 21:39:31 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

Many Americans can't tell the difference (in
accent) between English and Australian.

And many English people can't tell the
difference between American and Canadian.

The USA and Canada are a millimetre apart. England and Australia are not.

Physically. Not in (selected) accents.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:17:41 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

Something similar exists in many other countries - almost a two-hour
Travelcard type thing.

Ah. So it IS like a travelcard :-)

In article ,
(Bob Wood) wrote:

In ,
Colin Rosenstiel typed:

My need, and that of people all over the Home Counties, for singles
is very limited, two tickets so far this year. A one-day travel card
(with a Network Card) is only £1.65 more than a day return to King's
Cross and a Saver return to Zones 1 & 2 £1.20 more than a Saver to
King's Cross. So prepay isn't usable for millions of such travellers.

So, carry on buying your ODTC. You don't need Oyster Pre-Pay. Why are
you worrying?

But once my journey goes over one day because I stay in London overnight
there are no suitable fares that don't rip me off.

If the Underground was less unpleasant and faster I would use it more
and get an Oyster but between Putney and Westminster is faster by bike
and a lot more pleasant. I get a seat for starters. I've only used the
Underground when the weather is foul and wet and not every time this
year even then.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:25 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:

Except that for them it is the only ticketing choice

No, it isn't. There is a wide array of day, season and single
ticketing, though all of it is interavailable and identically-priced
on all modes. That's a true Verbundtarif, and something London (and
all the provincial cities - though it'll take longer with the bus
deregulation issue) really should be aiming at.

After all, why should a person who is disadvantaged by not having a
direct Tube service, and therefore requires two buses and a Tube
journey, be penalised over someone whose journey of an identical
length only requires one Tube trip?

The concept is of a public transport system, which is treated as a
whole. Not individual and distinct modes. Oyster would be an
absolutely ideal way to implement this kind of thing, as it could cap
single journeys involving multiple buses (for example) even if it
didn't reach the Travelcard cap.

Indeed. Far too sensible for whoever is Transport Secretary this week,
though.

--
Colin Rosenstiel