On 5 Oct 2005 02:16:30 -0700, "Larry Lard"
wrote:

Oyster in its current form is not suitable for very infrequent
passengers.

Why not? Seems to me that Prepay is *exactly* what very infrequent
passengers need.

I'd say there's a difference between relatively infrequent (e.g. me -
I go to London about once a month, and I would consider an Oyster card
if I didn't normally travel there on an outboundary ODTC) and very
infrequent (e.g. someone who perhaps visits once every 6 months).

To the latter, they probably just want to get a single from the ticket
machine. They may not even understand what Oyster is - some don't
understand what a ODTC is! They certainly won't want to join a
typically long ticket office queue to obtain an Oystercard and top it
up, nor to pay a gbp3 deposit on a card.

Now, there are ways of mitigating this, such as the installation of
Oyster sales machines, either removing the deposit or making it easier
to get it back (e.g. with an Oyster return machine), and posters
explaining an idiot's guide to Oyster alongside the tube maps. But
while the infrastructure for issuing paper tickets exists, it might as
well be used. If TfL simply want to do away with it, why don't they
say so?

None of this is a valid excuse for ripping people off. The fact that
most posters on here have come up with ways around the gbp3 fare would
show me fairly clearly that it is unreasonable.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

In message , Neil Williams
writes

I'd say there's a difference between relatively infrequent (e.g. me -
I go to London about once a month, and I would consider an Oyster card
if I didn't normally travel there on an outboundary ODTC) and very
infrequent (e.g. someone who perhaps visits once every 6 months).

To the latter, they probably just want to get a single from the ticket
machine. They may not even understand what Oyster is - some don't
understand what a ODTC is! They certainly won't want to join a
typically long ticket office queue to obtain an Oystercard and top it
up, nor to pay a gbp3 deposit on a card.

But surely the main reason is that they won't want to buy an Oystercard
when it cannot be used on most National Railway lines? What would be the
point for anyone who has to use National Rail for their infrequent
journeys?

--
Paul Terry

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 18:01:59 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:
Now, there are ways of mitigating this, such as the installation of
Oyster sales machines, either removing the deposit or making it easier
to get it back (e.g. with an Oyster return machine), and posters
explaining an idiot's guide to Oyster alongside the tube maps. But
while the infrastructure for issuing paper tickets exists, it might as
well be used. If TfL simply want to do away with it, why don't they
say so?

I think they should have that policy. A solution for infrequent
travellers could be the sort of flexible, disposable contactless card
I've used in Lisbon. There isn't a deposit, rather a charge, of 50
cents and it can be reused for a year. These cards *may* only be
capable of storing "normal" tickets bought from a machine or human,
the publicity is of course not very technical (and in Portuguese!).

None of this is a valid excuse for ripping people off. The fact that
most posters on here have come up with ways around the gbp3 fare would
show me fairly clearly that it is unreasonable.

I would have thought that 50p on top for cash would be enough,
although it is designed as well to make a few more tens of millions
isn't it? Give it lots of simple publicity and easier ways to get a
card and get rid of it, and maybe it won't be so bad to leave those
who are still Oyster-averse to pay for the free bus travel for under
16s... (Note to Ken: Please get auto top-up working on the bus as
soon as possible! Thanks.)

Richard.

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 01:42:45 +0100,
(Richard) wrote:

I think they should have that policy. A solution for infrequent
travellers could be the sort of flexible, disposable contactless card
I've used in Lisbon. There isn't a deposit, rather a charge, of 50
cents and it can be reused for a year. These cards *may* only be
capable of storing "normal" tickets bought from a machine or human,
the publicity is of course not very technical (and in Portuguese!).

This sounds a very good idea, especially for tourists etc. There is
another precedent in the Washington DC Farecards, where you buy a card
of a specific value and credit is deducted from it for each journey.
It's a magstripe technology, but I don't see why a non-contact
smartcard version shouldn't be feasible, if at a slightly greater
cost.

I would have thought that 50p on top for cash would be enough,

Agreed.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

In message , at 07:04:39 on Thu, 6 Oct
2005, Neil Williams remarked:
A solution for infrequent
travellers could be the sort of flexible, disposable contactless card
I've used in Lisbon. There isn't a deposit, rather a charge, of 50
cents and it can be reused for a year. These cards *may* only be
capable of storing "normal" tickets bought from a machine or human,
the publicity is of course not very technical (and in Portuguese!).

This sounds a very good idea, especially for tourists etc. There is
another precedent in the Washington DC Farecards, where you buy a card
of a specific value and credit is deducted from it for each journey.
It's a magstripe technology, but I don't see why a non-contact
smartcard version shouldn't be feasible, if at a slightly greater
cost.

New York subways also have a mag-stripe card which you can load with
money for several journeys. One disadvantage for the infrequent
traveller (and tourist) is that the credit expires after a year.
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:10:01 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

New York subways also have a mag-stripe card which you can load with
money for several journeys. One disadvantage for the infrequent
traveller (and tourist) is that the credit expires after a year.

ISTR that a Dutch Strippenkaart expires after two fare increases (or
something similar).

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Neil Williams wrote:
On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:10:01 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

New York subways also have a mag-stripe card which you can load with
money for several journeys. One disadvantage for the infrequent
traveller (and tourist) is that the credit expires after a year.

ISTR that a Dutch Strippenkaart expires after two fare increases (or
something similar).

The Dutch Strippenkaart system makes Oyster seem easy!

Never could work them out. 1 strip or 2? How long does it last for,
where's the cheapest place to buy them etc.

--
Paul

In message , at 10:18:50
on Fri, 7 Oct 2005, Paul remarked:
The Dutch Strippenkaart system makes Oyster seem easy!

Never could work them out. 1 strip or 2? How long does it last for,
where's the cheapest place to buy them etc.

I was advised I needed two for a tram journey of about half a mile. So
perhaps that's the minimum. I walked. Like you, I have a blind spot when
it comes to knowing where to buy them.
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 10:18:50 +0100, Paul
wrote:

The Dutch Strippenkaart system makes Oyster seem easy!

Does it? I'd say they're about the same - Oyster wins in some cases,
while the Strippenkaart does in others.

Never could work them out. 1 strip or 2?

1 "base strip" plus one per zone crossed. Leaflets showing the zones
are easily available, or just tell the bus driver where you're going
and he'll do it for you. (Trams are more complicated but you can
often talk to the driver of those, or there's a conductor).

To complicate matters slightly, you can mark one as a day ticket by
marking a certain number of strips (I can't recall how many) on a
large one.

How long does it last for,

2 fare changes, I think, which is basically a year. (This is the bit
I do find complicated - an expiry date would be preferable).

where's the cheapest place to buy them etc.

Same price everywhere, AFAIAA, though they do come in different sizes.
In general, the more strips, the cheaper.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 07:04:39 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

This sounds a very good idea, especially for tourists etc. There is
another precedent in the Washington DC Farecards, where you buy a card
of a specific value and credit is deducted from it for each journey.
It's a magstripe technology, but I don't see why a non-contact
smartcard version shouldn't be feasible, if at a slightly greater
cost.

Kuala Lumpur did that when I went. You got the final trip cheap if
there wasn't enough credit remaining on the throw-away card. Of
course, the two different metros in KL didn't accept each other's
tickets :-) (though I think that's been changed now)
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK