Something no one in the media or on here seems to have mentioned is
that the only reason the drivers are noticing so many tripcock
failures is that so many of these overpaid agitators are going
through red lights! Perhaps while they're fixing the trains they should
consider getting the drivers retrained. How exactly can you miss a red
light in a slow tube train usually (on the northern line) in a dark
tunnel?
They don't have to worry about other traffic , roadside distractions,
steering etc like a bus driver but if a bus driver went through a red
light
I don't think anyone would have much time for him blaming the bus for
not putting its brakes on!

B2003

Boltar wrote:
Something no one in the media or on here seems to have mentioned is
that the only reason the drivers are noticing so many tripcock
failures is that so many of these overpaid agitators are going
through red lights!

Perhaps the reason it hasn't been noticed is that your assumption is
false. The fault is said to occur when trains are driven through a red
light very slowly, as happens for example in the case of a track circuit
or signal failure where a driver is given permission to do so. The
procedure is to go forwards slowly, get tripped, reset the tripcock and
proceed at slow speed to the next signal or for 3 minutes, or something
(I forget the details). It's been found that in these circumstances,
the tripcock can reset itself without stopping the train.

If you have up-to-date info on the number of SPADs on LU, please quote
numbers and source.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Boltar...you been on holiday or, perish the thought, everything been going
as you liked for a while. I've missed your abrasive people hating comments
recently, welcome back.

The reason so many have been highlighted recently is......... They have been
testing them. Hence every train tested means a number of failures hence the
situation we are in. Its got nothing to do with them all SPADing.
Why hasn't it been picked up before? Probably because the trip cock test
that has to be done by every train leaving a depot or terminus, so, many
times a day. It is a test to ensure the arm is not missing or out of
alignment with the train stop at the signal. It doesn't operate the trip
cock. If it did the arm would miss a train stop thereby rendering the train
capable of going past a red. In these cases the arm is correctly aligned, it
just doesnt open the valve. So the normal trip cock test works fine.
Also, judging a red in the dark with no referance points isn't that easy.
Thats where line knowledge comes in. If it wasn't for the profesionalism of
the drivers, or operators, trains would SPAD all the time. And we would have
found the tripcock problem years ago......

The qustion Boltar you should be asking is how much will the contactor pay
for the disruption. Will it make a huge dent in profits.....if they get
found to be contributing to the delay at all. I have no idea how the system
works....perhaps other do and could enlighten us.

Mal

"Richard J." wrote in message
.uk...
Boltar wrote:
Something no one in the media or on here seems to have mentioned is
that the only reason the drivers are noticing so many tripcock
failures is that so many of these overpaid agitators are going
through red lights!

Perhaps the reason it hasn't been noticed is that your assumption is
false. The fault is said to occur when trains are driven through a red
light very slowly, as happens for example in the case of a track circuit
or signal failure where a driver is given permission to do so. The
procedure is to go forwards slowly, get tripped, reset the tripcock and
proceed at slow speed to the next signal or for 3 minutes, or something
(I forget the details). It's been found that in these circumstances,
the tripcock can reset itself without stopping the train.

If you have up-to-date info on the number of SPADs on LU, please quote
numbers and source.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

In article ,
(Mal) wrote:

The qustion Boltar you should be asking is how much will the contactor
pay for the disruption. Will it make a huge dent in profits.....if
they get found to be contributing to the delay at all. I have no idea
how the system works....perhaps other do and could enlighten us.

It's contractors plural isn't it? Don't Alstom provide and maintain
these trains for LU on the never-never?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(Mal) wrote:

The qustion Boltar you should be asking is how much will the
contactor pay for the disruption. Will it make a huge dent in
profits.....if they get found to be contributing to the delay at
all. I have no idea how the system works....perhaps other do and
could enlighten us.

It's contractors plural isn't it? Don't Alstom provide and maintain
these trains for LU on the never-never?

It's my understanding that the original Alstom contract was passed to
Tube Lines, who now have Alstom as their subcontractor.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(Mal) wrote:

The qustion Boltar you should be asking is how much will the
contactor pay for the disruption. Will it make a huge dent in
profits.....if they get found to be contributing to the delay at
all. I have no idea how the system works....perhaps other do and
could enlighten us.

It's contractors plural isn't it? Don't Alstom provide and maintain
these trains for LU on the never-never?

It's my understanding that the original Alstom contract was passed to
Tube Lines, who now have Alstom as their subcontractor.

That figures with something in an LU press release mentioning both.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Boltar...you been on holiday or, perish the thought, everything been going
as you liked for a while. I've missed your abrasive people hating comments
recently, welcome back.

Idiot admins at work now block all news forums.

Why hasn't it been picked up before? Probably because thetrip cock test
that has to be done by every train leaving a depot or terminus, so, many

Perhaps I'm the only person to whom it seems strange that its
taken 8 years to notice this problem. Unless the equipment
in question has been modified recently and a bad job was
done.

Thats where line knowledge comes in. If it wasn't for the profesionalism of
the drivers, or operators, trains would SPAD all the time. And we would have

Ah , I needed a good laugh tonight. Real professionals don't
walk out at the drop of a hat. You don't find doctors heading
off to a picket line as soon as they're unhappy with their
lot and god knows they've got good reason to with the NHS.
Sorry , but an LUL driver wouldn't know professionalism if
it kicked them in the nuts. Besides which , just how hard is
it to spot a red light?

The qustion Boltar you should be asking is how much will the contactor pay
for the disruption. Will it make a huge dent in profits.....if

Well , the only people who thought privitisation was a good
idea was Gordon Brown and his cronies at the treasury.

B2003

Boltar wrote:
Boltar...you been on holiday or, perish the thought, everything
been going as you liked for a while. I've missed your abrasive
people hating comments recently, welcome back.

Idiot admins at work now block all news forums.

Good for them. You complain about the lack of professionalism of LU
drivers, yet expect to swan around at work accessing newsgroups.

Why hasn't it been picked up before? Probably because thetrip cock
test that has to be done by every train leaving a depot or
terminus, so, many

Perhaps I'm the only person to whom it seems strange that its
taken 8 years to notice this problem. Unless the equipment
in question has been modified recently and a bad job was
done.

LU have said that "maintenance of the Northern line train fleet was not
being done to the correct standards", so perhaps it's not just a design
issue.

Thats where line knowledge comes in. If it wasn't for the
profesionalism of the drivers, or operators, trains would SPAD all
the time. And we would have

Ah , I needed a good laugh tonight. Real professionals don't
walk out at the drop of a hat.

Hardly at the drop of a hat. This has been going on for weeks. Drivers
on NR have AWS and TPWS and in some cases ATP. LU drivers (except
Victoria and Central Lines with ATO) have just trainstops, and if that
doesn't work, there is no secondary protection system. I know you think
that red signals alone should be sufficient, but experience worldwide
indiactes that your view is foolishly complacent.

I'm not normally on the side of RMT and ASLEF, and one might argue that
double manning would have been sufficient, but I have some sympathy with
their view that temporary workarounds should not continue indefinitely.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Richard J. wrote:
Boltar wrote:
Idiot admins at work now block all news forums.

Good for them. You complain about the lack of professionalism of LU
drivers, yet expect to swan around at work accessing newsgroups.

Actually , my "swanning around" on newsgroups is 90% work given I work
in IT. And don't bother looking for this id , I usually use a different
one
when posting to work related newsgroups.

LU have said that "maintenance of the Northern line train fleet was not
being done to the correct standards", so perhaps it's not just a design
issue.

Perhaps LU should have their own people inspecting the work instead
of relying on a profit first organisation not to cut corners.

Ah , I needed a good laugh tonight. Real professionals don't
walk out at the drop of a hat.

Hardly at the drop of a hat. This has been going on for weeks. Drivers

Oh please. Want a payrise? Strike. Want some tosser who's been playing
squash when on sick leave back in? Strike. Don't like new working
hours?
Strike. Don't like the mess facilities? Strike. Thats not the behaviour
of professionals , its the behaviour of a bunch of militant feckless
******s.

on NR have AWS and TPWS and in some cases ATP. LU drivers (except
Victoria and Central Lines with ATO) have just trainstops, and if that
doesn't work, there is no secondary protection system. I know you think
that red signals alone should be sufficient, but experience worldwide
indiactes that your view is foolishly complacent.

Funny , since red lights are the only thing many intercity and multi
thousand ton freight trains rely on. And the former go a damn site
faster than the pootling 30mph tube trains manage. Having said that ,
tripcocks are obviously good idea , but then an even better idea is
drivers not going through red lights in the first place. I can spot
a red light half a mile ahead on a dual carraigeway in ****ing rain
on a road I don't even know. I fail to see how hard it can be to see
one
on a railway track the drivers learnt the route rote while doing 30mph
or
less!

B2003

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:06:18 GMT, "Richard J."
said:

If you have up-to-date info on the number of SPADs on LU, please quote
numbers and source.

While arguing about the Northern line on IRC, I found this ...

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/using/use...ical/spads.asp

which eventually leads to ...

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/company/perfor...te/default.asp

--
David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david