----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick"
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 11:47 AM
Subject: Borough boundaries



The old GLC slogan was 'Working for London' and used for many years. It
appeared on everything that they made or did. I really don't see what
the difference is today with the GLA.

The GLC never referred to Bexley as "south east London" did they. The GLA
do, and intentionally so. There is a noticeable shift towards this in the
media as well, so maybe it's unfair to put all the blame the GLA for this;
but they sure as hell don't discourage it.


I don't think the situation is clear cut enough to call Bexley either Kent
or London, because it's a part of Kent that's now in London. Or a part of
London that's in Kent, depending on which way you look at it. Same goes for
Croydon and Surrey, Romford and Essex, Harrow and Middlesex etc.

Jonn

Unless I'm very much mistaken, it was Jonn Elledge
), in message
who said:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick"
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 11:47 AM
Subject: Borough boundaries



The old GLC slogan was 'Working for London' and used for many
years. It appeared on everything that they made or did. I really
don't see what the difference is today with the GLA.

The GLC never referred to Bexley as "south east London" did they.
The GLA do, and intentionally so. There is a noticeable shift
towards this in the media as well, so maybe it's unfair to put all
the blame the GLA for this; but they sure as hell don't discourage
it.


I don't think the situation is clear cut enough to call Bexley either
Kent or London, because it's a part of Kent that's now in London. Or
a part of London that's in Kent, depending on which way you look at
it. Same goes for Croydon and Surrey, Romford and Essex, Harrow and
Middlesex etc.


Borders have to be drawn somewhere. I live in Tooting, but in the LBoMerton
part, less than 100 yards from the Wandsworth border - and pre-1960s, this
was the Surrey-London border.

Under the 1899-1963 boundaries, I would've lived in Surrey, not London -
e.g. my area was transferred in exactly the same way as Bexley - but it
would be utterly absurd to suggest that I live in Surrey today.

BTN

On 21 Jul 2003 14:40:31 GMT Robin May wrote:
}
} While this subject is being discussed, is Newham and in particular the

Indubitably.

Although the name "Newham" was a bit of artistic license on the part of
some re-organisers warped imagination.

} Plaistow, West Ham and Canning Town area a "proper" part of London?

Plaistow and West Ham were villages that became encompased in the London
connurbation.

Canning Town was the result of development that arose after the building
of the Barking Bridge (1810). The docks on the Thames and the Lee with
access to the Hertford Union Canal, Regents Canal and Lee Navigation
were built 1840 - 1850 and were a continuation of the spread of docks
downstream from the Pool of London.

So yes. They're part of London's urban develoment. And have been part
of London's administration since... Memory fails here but it was under
the LCC so 1889 or 1904 are likely dates prior to whenever they were
"Essex", the county reaching the eastern edge of the City.

Matthew
--
Il est important d'être un homme ou une femme en colère; le jour où nous
quitte la colère, ou le désir, c'est cuit. - Barbara

http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/

Matthew Malthouse wrote the
following in:

On 21 Jul 2003 14:40:31 GMT Robin May wrote:
}
} While this subject is being discussed, is Newham and in
particular the

Indubitably.

Although the name "Newham" was a bit of artistic license on the
part of some re-organisers warped imagination.

I was taught at school that it was because East Ham and West Ham and a
few other places were combined to form "New Ham" or Newham.

} Plaistow, West Ham and Canning Town area a "proper" part of
London?

Plaistow and West Ham were villages that became encompased in the
London connurbation.

Thanks for the interesting information.

I asked because I have always been quite confident that where I live is
part of London and that I'm a Londoner, yet I often get people telling
me that it's not a part of London. I even had one person tell me that
Plaistow is no more a part of London than Basildon is. You start to
feel like a bit of a fraud at times!

--
message by Robin May, founder of International Boyism
"Would Inspector Sands please go to the Operations Room immediately."

Unofficially immune to hangovers.

"Robin May" wrote in message
...
"Jonn Elledge" wrote the following in:


I don't think the situation is clear cut enough to call Bexley
either Kent or London, because it's a part of Kent that's now in
London. Or a part of London that's in Kent, depending on which way
you look at it. Same goes for Croydon and Surrey, Romford and
Essex, Harrow and Middlesex etc.

I don't think there's anyone in Romford who would really consider it a
part of London, it's much more a part of Essex than anything else
(although I don't know about how it works administratively).

Romford's in the London Borough of Havering and the GLA. I grew up there and
thought of it as both outer London and Essex; a lot of people I knew in the
area agreed.


While this subject is being discussed, is Newham and in particular the
Plaistow, West Ham and Canning Town area a "proper" part of London?

I know a lot of people who'd call that the East end. People from Mile End
and Stepney may say otherwise.

Jonn

"Jonn Elledge" wrote in message
...
"Robin May" wrote in message
...
I don't think there's anyone in Romford who would really consider it a
part of London, it's much more a part of Essex than anything else
(although I don't know about how it works administratively).

Romford's in the London Borough of Havering and the GLA. I grew up there
and
thought of it as both outer London and Essex; a lot of people I knew in
the
area agreed.


Oh, and it's in Zone 6, so it's pretty much on a level with Kingston,
Uxbridge etc.

Jonn

"Meldrew of Meldreth" wrote in message
...
In article , Jonn Elledge
writes
Romford's in the London Borough of Havering and the GLA. I grew up there
and
thought of it as both outer London and Essex; a lot of people I knew in
the
area agreed.

I spent a lot of the 60's and 80's in Brentwood, a town with an identity
crisis. Londoners think it's in the country, and country folk think it's
in London. Perhaps the London busses, which it had then, and the
population of Eastenders-made-good, confused people.


It finally got an identity in the mid-nineties when it was highly publicised
for a while in the tabloids as "Most Boring Town ni Britain." Mainly because
of some problems finding a theme for the town pageant (I mean, come on, this
is where the peasant's revolt started), but also because it's an anagram of
"Bored Town".

(Sadly I went to Brentwood School for longer than I care to recollect).

Jonn

"Jonn Elledge" wrote the following in:


"Robin May" wrote in message
...
I don't think there's anyone in Romford who would really consider
it a part of London, it's much more a part of Essex than anything
else (although I don't know about how it works administratively).

Romford's in the London Borough of Havering and the GLA. I grew up
there and thought of it as both outer London and Essex; a lot of
people I knew in the area agreed.

Ah, I see. I must have come across an unrepresentative sample of the
population then.

--
message by Robin May, founder of International Boyism
"Would Inspector Sands please go to the Operations Room immediately."

Unofficially immune to hangovers.

"Robin May" wrote in message
...
"Jonn Elledge" wrote the following in:


"Robin May" wrote in message
...
I don't think there's anyone in Romford who would really consider
it a part of London, it's much more a part of Essex than anything
else (although I don't know about how it works administratively).

Romford's in the London Borough of Havering and the GLA. I grew up
there and thought of it as both outer London and Essex; a lot of
people I knew in the area agreed.

Ah, I see. I must have come across an unrepresentative sample of the
population then.

In all fairness, I should note that there are a lot of people in Romford who
do consider it to be purely Essex and (like the guy who started this thread
talking about Bexley) would like to drop association with London all
together; I just wanted to point out they're by no means all the population,
or even a majority as far as I can tell. They do include the local MP
(Andrew Rosindell) though.

I think from the outside Romford's generally thought of as Essex because
there is such a strong perception of an Essex identity. Though for some
reason the parts of the GLA in Essex and Kent never seem to be as associated
with the city as those in Middlesex and Surrey are.

Sorry, personal bugbear speaking...

Best wishes,
Jonn Elledge

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:29:56 +0000 (UTC), Jonn Elledge
wrote:
"Jonn Elledge" wrote in message
...
"Robin May" wrote in message
...
I don't think there's anyone in Romford who would really consider it a
part of London, it's much more a part of Essex than anything else
(although I don't know about how it works administratively).

Romford's in the London Borough of Havering and the GLA. I grew up there
and
thought of it as both outer London and Essex; a lot of people I knew in
the
area agreed.


Oh, and it's in Zone 6, so it's pretty much on a level with Kingston,
Uxbridge etc.

Except Kingston still houses Surrey's administrative headquarters.....

Just to keep The Natives as confused as possible, of course.

--
Mike Pellatt