I've been wondering , how does carrying around another 25 tons of dead
weight (I believe the new 7th cars are all unpowered) affect
performance
of the trains?

B2003

In message . com,
Boltar writes
I've been wondering , how does carrying around another 25 tons of dead
weight (I believe the new 7th cars are all unpowered) affect
performance
of the trains?

B2003

And, how much has travelling comfort in the peak hours been improved, if
any?

Bob

"Boltar" wrote in message
ups.com...
I've been wondering , how does carrying around another 25 tons of dead
weight (I believe the new 7th cars are all unpowered) affect
performance
of the trains?

B2003


From December's Modern Rail, which has about 3 pages on the modifications,
'Traction capability has been increased marginally to compensate for its
greater mass.' The train sets were originally designed to allow for a
seventh car, therefore the auxiliariy equipments on the six car set were
sized to allow for the seventh, which is actually carrying ballast in lieu.
The article goes on to explain further that the trains are capable of much
greater performance, but full exploitation of speed, acceleration and
retardation improvements will require new communications based train
control(signalling) when the line is upgraded.

HTH

Paul

I thought the signalling had been upgraded twice already? Wonder if
the max performance really is so much greater or its just manufacturers
spiel. If the jubilee and northen line trains could even get close to
the
performance of the central line trains it would be a good thing IMO.

B2003

"Boltar" wrote in message
oups.com...
I thought the signalling had been upgraded twice already? Wonder if
the max performance really is so much greater or its just manufacturers
spiel. If the jubilee and northen line trains could even get close to
the
performance of the central line trains it would be a good thing IMO.

B2003


IIRC correctly one of the biggest cost overruns on the extension was caused
by reversion to normal signalling after they couldn't get the moving block
stuff to work? That was probably 'spun' as an upgrade...

Paul

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 11:51:06 +0000 (UTC), "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"Boltar" wrote in message
roups.com...
I thought the signalling had been upgraded twice already? Wonder if
the max performance really is so much greater or its just manufacturers
spiel. If the jubilee and northen line trains could even get close to
the
performance of the central line trains it would be a good thing IMO.

B2003


IIRC correctly one of the biggest cost overruns on the extension was caused
by reversion to normal signalling after they couldn't get the moving block
stuff to work? That was probably 'spun' as an upgrade...

Paul

A new signalling system is being introduced on both the Jubilee and
the Northern lines as part of the PPP. It is an Alcatel SELTRAC moving
block system as used on the Kowloon Canton Railway in Hong Kong and
(in an earlier incarnation) on DLR. Introduction according to the PPP
is 2009 for Jubilee and 2012 for Northern. When this is done the
trains' performance will be notched up again.

New control systems also due for Victoria and Subsurface -
(Westinghouse "Distance to Go" Fixed Block") and for Piccadilly
(contract not let yet for signalling).

Paul

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006, Paul wrote:

New control systems also due for Victoria and Subsurface - (Westinghouse
"Distance to Go" Fixed Block")

What's that then?

tom

--
SCIIIIIEEEEEEEENNNNNNCCCCCCCE!!!

Paul Scott wrote:

"Boltar" wrote...
I've been wondering , how does carrying around another 25 tons of dead
weight (I believe the new 7th cars are all unpowered) affect
performance
of the trains?

B2003


From December's Modern Rail, which has about 3 pages on the modifications,
'Traction capability has been increased marginally to compensate for its
greater mass.' The train sets were originally designed to allow for a
seventh car, therefore the auxiliariy equipments on the six car set were
sized to allow for the seventh, which is actually carrying ballast in lieu.
The article goes on to explain further that the trains are capable of much
greater performance, but full exploitation of speed, acceleration and
retardation improvements will require new communications based train
control(signalling) when the line is upgraded.

What is the point of tube trains carrying ballast?

--
Aidan Stanger
http://www.bettercrossrail.co.uk

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 23:12:46 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006, Paul wrote:

New control systems also due for Victoria and Subsurface - (Westinghouse
"Distance to Go" Fixed Block")

What's that then?

tom
Sorry, it is just the product name for the system that Westinghouse
are installing. A story on it here

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...5/ai_n15978662

and some manufacturer info (PDF file) he

http://www.westsig.co.uk/Downloads/K11188%20PPP.pdf

Paul

(PS I don't work for them - just did a google search)

"Bob Adams" wrote in message
...
In message . com,
Boltar writes
I've been wondering , how does carrying around another 25 tons of dead
weight (I believe the new 7th cars are all unpowered) affect
performance
of the trains?

B2003

And, how much has travelling comfort in the peak hours been improved, if
any?

Bob

Not that I have made a study of this, but I started commuting from Waterloo
to the Wharf 4 months before Christmas, and most of that time was jostling
to get on the train, reasonably often having to wait for the next one.
Since January, no jostling, never had to wait for the next train and
probably could've got a seat a couple of times if that sort of thing
bothered me.

So all in all a success, in fact worth the £40pa extra my card now costs me.