"Neil Williams" wrote in message
oups.com...
Clive George wrote:

Er - that wouldn't help in the situation where a bus starts overtaking a
cyclist then cuts into their stop. It's happened to me...

True. Another "training" issue.

training of the bus drivers, presumably?

cheers,
clive

Adrian wrote:
I find a good hard open-palm slap onto a window or door of a car sailing
across the ped x-ing usually gets an entertainingly abrupt emergency stop
and panicked expression...

Possibly followed by the driver getting out and assaulting you.

Still, at least I got compensation and the driver got points on his
licence. And I'd do the same thing again.

--
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"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

d wrote:

I like your style! :-P

From what I've seen, it's not a minority of cyclists who do this, but a
majority. At least where I see them, that is, which is from Islington to
the centre. Occasionally you do see a sensible cyclist waiting out a red
light, but it really doesn't happen that often. Usually they'll bump up
onto the pavement, ride to the pedestrian crossing, cross, then bump back
down.

I've also noticed an increase in cyclists riding past busses with people
getting on/off, between the bus and the curb. Having a bemused cyclist
staring at you with a look of complete confusion mixed with rage, simply
because you got off a bus at a bus stop, is quite entertaining.



dave



This happens all the time outside Windsor House (TfL HQ) which in itself
is only 30 seconds down the road from New Scotland Yard. On the 3
occasions this has happened to me over the last year or so not once has
the cyclist stopped to apologise and in one case had the cheek to shout
obscenities back at the pedestrians crossing! Please please one day let
there be a policeman there to nick them...

(Isn't there a £30 fine or a "training course" if caught doing this now?).

Cheers

Steve M

Clive George wrote:
"Neil Williams" wrote in message
oups.com...
Clive George wrote:

Er - that wouldn't help in the situation where a bus starts overtaking a
cyclist then cuts into their stop. It's happened to me...

True. Another "training" issue.

training of the bus drivers, presumably?

That's the one.

That said, it is also worthy of consideration whether a bus lane (not
that this is necessarily one, of course!) is suitable for cycling in,
per-se. I'd argue that it probably isn't, unless it's wide enough for
a bus to overtake a cyclist without moving over to the other lane
(which is probably full of stationary cars, else there's no need for a
bus lane).

I'm not asking for more cycling "farcilities", but a bus lane,
especially a narrow one, is not a place I feel comfortable on a bike.
I'd rather be in with the cars.

Neil

Neil Williams ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

That said, it is also worthy of consideration whether a bus lane (not
that this is necessarily one, of course!) is suitable for cycling in,
per-se. I'd argue that it probably isn't, unless it's wide enough for
a bus to overtake a cyclist without moving over to the other lane
(which is probably full of stationary cars, else there's no need for a
bus lane).

I'd question what sort of speed you feel is appropriate for a bus to be
passing stationary vehicles at?

Given that your average cyclist can probably hold somewhere around 15mph,
and a daily commuter probably hold more than that, I'd suggest that a
cyclist would be unlikely to be holding a bus up, unless that bus driver is
insufficiently prepared for some blind pillock on foot to either try to
cross the road through the stationary traffic, or for some blind pillock in
a car to decide they're ****ed off with being stationary and they want to
cut into the bus lane.

Or, indeed, for the bus to need to avoid a pothole or other obstacle in the
bus lane.

Bear in mind that cyclists don't need to stop regularly for passengers,
either.

Ian Jelf wrote:
|
| I'm only an occasional cyclist (Brompton owner) who is usually
| infuriated with cyclist who get the rest of us a bad name and motorists
| who don't regard (properly behanved0 cyclists as "traffic".

The core of those cyclists are/were couriers responding to their
company's internal competition strategy. Has anyone ever seen a meeja
investigation of what these companies get up to to get the max from
their riders?

| Well, I developed an interesting angle on this yesterday when - as a
| pedestrian in Piccadilly - I managed to get knocked down by a cyclist.
| With a number of other people I was crossing a side street at a green
| pelican crossing on (pedestrian) green. Motor traffic had been stopped
| for some time.
|
| A cyclist apparently came past all the queuing traffic and simply
| ploughed through the red light while the crowd were crossing and
| happened to hit me. I'm not hurt (I managed to get straight up and I
| was surprised at just how many passers by stopped to help) but after
| yelling "tosser", presumably at me, she just cycled off. This wasn't
| some speeding child or youth but an older woman with helmet and yellow
| jacket

Sounds like a librarian who's gone on one too many assertiveness
courses...

--
Patrick Herring, http://www.anweald.co.uk/ph

Adrian wrote:

I'd question what sort of speed you feel is appropriate for a bus to be
passing stationary vehicles at?

What's appropriate and what happens in practice are different matters.
I'd say the figure you are looking at is up to (or maybe over) 30mph.
Reasonable or not, it is what happens, and it results in buses
intimidating cyclists much more than cars do.

Bear in mind that cyclists don't need to stop regularly for passengers,
either.

This is one good reason why buses and cyclists (as distinct from cars,
lorries etc and cyclists) don't fit together too well. It results in
continuous overtaking from both parties.

There's an interesting alternative in Hamburg, where (on an ex-tram
route) the bus lanes run up the middle of the road, thus interfering
with no other traffic directly. The buses are boarded from platforms
reached via pedestrian crossings at intersections (which, of course,
exist anyway), where the stops also make best use of red traffic light
time for boarding and alighting from buses. It works, and I expect
there are places in London where it could work, too.

Neil

Steve M wrote:

Isn't there a £30 fine or a "training course" if caught doing this now?

ISTR that one of the cycling institutes includes third-party cyclist
insurance in their membership.

'Course, in our increasingly litigious society I'd like to see this
being mandatory as with other road users, but that's just me (speaking
both as sometime cyclist and pedestrian).


jx

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Neil Williams wrote:

There's an interesting alternative in Hamburg, where (on an ex-tram
route) the bus lanes run up the middle of the road, thus interfering
with no other traffic directly. The buses are boarded from platforms
reached via pedestrian crossings at intersections (which, of course,
exist anyway), where the stops also make best use of red traffic light
time for boarding and alighting from buses. It works, and I expect
there are places in London where it could work, too.

Far too sensible to catch on here. Sheffield's trams have a few tram
stops in the middle of a two-lane-each-way dual carriageway; the pelican
crossings surrounding them manage to be either completely independent
of, or actually anti-synchronised, with a tram's arrival, so you get
swarms of pedestrians trying to dodge 40 mph+ vehicular traffic to get
to the imminently departing tram.

R.

Ian Jelf wrote:

some speeding child or youth but an older woman with helmet and yellow
jacket

You sure it wasn't Adam Hart-Davis? ;-)

--
Nathan Whitington