Tom Anderson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, wrote:
This, i have to admit, is a puzzle - how the hell is the H&C wired to the
WLL?


It's not. The important thing, however, is the electromagnetic
interference caused by high voltages and alternating currents. This
interference can work "at a distance", and can cause signalling
circuits (amongst other things) to misbehave. I'm sure that we all
agree that it's not a goot idea to mess with safety systems without
suitable safeguards (that is, immunising them).

PhilD

--

On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:05:51 +0000, Dave Arquati wrote:

It's a shame the station work has started so late - I would have very
much liked to use it a couple of days ago, when instead I had to hurry
down to Olympia and cram myself on with everyone else there... (also
evidence of the very high demand for these inner orbital lines, which I
know some posters doubted a while ago!).

I've had cause to use some of the NLL recently and have been surprised
how busy it is. Even the dear old GOBLIN carries decent loads despite
the slow speed and poor frequency.

I happened to see one of Southern's trains at West Brompton (heading
south) mid afternoon and it was well loaded too. Similar comments apply
to one I saw in the evening peak waiting to depart from Watford. I was
surprised that it was as busy as it looked - especially as the DfT are
looking to reduce or curtail the Watford - Brighton service if my memory
serves.

I look forward to a TfL-managed WLL with through services to the NLL and
a new station at the Bush!

Well yes but I fear there are going to be huge issues to deal with -
most notably the willingness of Network Rail to co-operate at a price
that is affordable. The reliance placed on these lines for the Olympics
(and London's transport needs) gives a number of parties massive
leverage against TfL. You can detect where the issues may arise in this
very recent London Assembly report

http://www.london.gov.uk/assembly/re...ondon-line.pdf

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, Dave Arquati wrote:

(also evidence of the very high demand for these inner orbital lines,
which I know some posters doubted a while ago!).

[shakes fist]

I'll get you next time, Arquati!

tom

You shouldn't have said anything, I'd forgotten it was you!!

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Dave Arquati
writes

Interestingly, the work seems to have uncovered what looks like the
remains of an old platform on the northbound side, which I thought
might be left over from the old Uxbridge Road station, but it's far
too high for the trains. Was the WLL lowered significantly here in
preparation for the West Cross Route and Holland Park Roundabout which
it now passes underneath?

Its possible the WLL was lowered - old pictures of the station show a
very shallow cutting. But the WLL crosses the Central Line at this
point, which is already rising towards the surface, so I shouldn't have
thought there was much room to go down.

I should make clear that it's not a *huge* drop - about three metres I
guess. It's also at the top of the current embankment - so I wondered if
the railway had been shifted slightly eastwards too to allow it to drop
downwards. Of course, it could just be something entirely uninteresting!
It just looks a little platform-like.

Is the old platform immediately adjacent to Uxbridge Road? If so, it
would probably be Uxbridge Road station. But 100 yards further north is
the site of the original (1844) Shepherd's Bush station - it closed
within a year, so it would be quite a find if any of that came to light!

The part I could see is not immediately adjacent to it. I was looking
from the walkway alongside the roundabout, so it's a bit further north
than where Uxbridge Road used to be. Here is where I was looking from:
http://tinyurl.com/jzqdc


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In message , Dave Arquati
writes

I should make clear that it's not a *huge* drop - about three metres I
guess. It's also at the top of the current embankment - so I wondered
if the railway had been shifted slightly eastwards too to allow it to
drop downwards. Of course, it could just be something entirely
uninteresting! It just looks a little platform-like.

There are some photos that might help at:
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/s...ad/index.shtml

--
Paul Terry

Yes, but is that really the reason behind this move to St. Pancras? I
thought it had something to do with the political goal of a high-speed
link for its own sake rather than there actually being a pressing need
for such. That, surely, must be the reason why all of St. Pancras'
domestic passengers have been given the two-finger salute as they
struggle alonng a dirty, narrow, unsafe and overcrowded passage that
was Pancras Road, to a station so badly designed that its escalators
actually face the wrong direction to the main traffic flow, and whose
departure boards are hidden like State secrets well away from view!

"Give up!"

Indeed, so appalling do I find the new St. Pancras interchange that I
will find ANY alternative changing arrangements when travelling North
next time. Surely this travesty of a station should be called Pancras
North or similar, and unsuspecting passengers who are so naive to
believe they can get from Underground to mainline train in less than 15
minutes should be warned of what they can expect.


The current arrangement is temporary.
When all the work is finished there will be direct indoor access from the
new tube station ticket halls to the main line station,
but you know this already.

How are the departure boards hidden? They are straight in front of you as
you walk in the main entrance.

And 15 minutes is plenty of time, even with luggage.
Seven minutes was my time today.

--
Peter

whose departure boards are hidden like State secrets well away from view!

Left in taxis?

In article , Tom
Anderson writes
What might be sensible would be if preparatory work for the change was
done now - for instance, stringing catenary to Shepherd's Bush, but not
wiring it up to the mains.

Do you think it would still be there in 6 years time?

With any luck, the changeover could then be done just by setting some
jumpers in a cable cabinet somewhere, rather than having to get the
permanent way gang out again.

I would hope it would be deliberately made a lot harder than that. Do
you really want an accident waiting to happen?

And I do not understand what the hell resignalling of the Hammersmith
and City Line has to do with this at all!
This, i have to admit, is a puzzle - how the hell is the H&C wired to
the WLL?

It isn't, but there are such things as earth leakage and induction.

I know someone involved in the electrification work on CTRL2. He has to
worry about the fact that the Underground tube tunnels, the King's Cross
station structure, the St.Pancras station structure, and the NLL all
have different values for "earth". He reckons that if he gets things
wrong, opening a breaker at Ashford could cause a lethal change in earth
voltage at the KXSP complex.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Paul Terry,

You are getting your developers confused!

The developers of the Imperial Wharf scheme are St. George. At public
meetings about 7 or 8 years ago, at which there was massive local
opposition (which included Hammersmith & Fulham Council), St. George
promised that the amounts required for the railway station were already
ringfenced - this was one of the many bribes offered, which eventually
resulted in the Council betraying the local residents and then
supporting the scheme (no need for Prescott to overturn local
opposition - our local political masters were quite happy to do so
themselves!).

That has nothing to do with Circadian, who are the Lots Road Power
Station developers. Their scheme was a mere pipe dream at the time
(Lots Road Power Station was still fully functioning then!) and they
have only come onto the scene in the last few years, with, as we know,
their chief cheerleader Prescott.

So, let there be no doubt, (if St. George are to be believed), the
money for the railway station is already in place, and also (if St.
George are to be believed) the ONLY reason for the delay in the
building of that station is Railtrack (or their successor's) reluctance
- which they have expressed right from the beginning - to do anything
that increases use of that line on which, so they say, they have severe
capacity problems.

Lastly, according to today's local newspapers, Kensington & Chelsea
have abandoned any plans to judicially challenge Prescott's total
denial of local wishes. Perhaps, rather than that expensive route, they
should offer Prescott an IQ test and, just so as not to make things too
difficult for him, allow him to keep his job if he can scrape double
figures!

Marc.

Peter Goodland,

Actually, I did not know that the present arrangements are temporary -
indeed the staff seem not to know that either since, when I asked one
of them, he agreed that this was a lamentable change and mentioned
nothing about it being temporary either!

The departure boards on the platform level is what I was referring to.
I did not even see any at the entrance as I came in - I was too busy
searching for the escalators!

Seven minutes is hardly something to boast about! Why should domestic
passengers have to be so inconvenienced (to say nothing of being denied
the use of one of London's finest Gothic buildings) at all?

Moreover, I'd suggest 7 minutes when going AGAINST the morning commuter
flow, as I invariably would be, is rather optimistic!

Marc.