John Rowland wrote:
The City Of London Police have announced that they will prosecute not only
drivers who go through the final stop line when the traffic light is reds,
but also drivers who go through the initial stop line before the cycle box.

About time too. I can only recall two occasions on my daily cycle
commute when there haven't been cars in the cycle box. The rule about
not enroaching the cycle box has been in the highway code for some
years now but is being blatently ignored. It looks like the only way
to get people to follow the rules is to enforce them. Even the cars
which stop behind their line manage to drift forward to the cycle line
on most occasions

This makes it noticeably harder to stop legally during the amber phase.
How? Why are you driving if you can stop at the white line before the
lights. Maybe something they can do to help you would be to have a set
of repeater lights

I
don't see how the police can do this without lengthening the amber phase to
compensate, but even that doesn't really help. I think the only fair
solution is to remove the final stop line - since cyclists have no license
plates, the final stop line no longer serves any purpose

It does - it tells me where to stop my bike. It's purpose is to make
it safe for me to cycle by not letting me cycle through a junction
while there is conflicting traffic

snip

Incidentally, I waited immediately behind the cycle box yesterday for the
green light for turning right from Silvertown Way to George Street, and
after about five minutes the driver behind tapped on my window and informed
me that the sensor only activated if I pulled my car forward onto the green
box!

So I presume you reported the fault?

Chris! wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

The City Of London Police have announced that they will prosecute not only
drivers who go through the final stop line when the traffic light is reds,
but also drivers who go through the initial stop line before the cycle box.


About time too. I can only recall two occasions on my daily cycle
commute when there haven't been cars in the cycle box.

On a busy road, that is legal and expected.

In ,
Nick Finnigan said:
Chris! wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

The City Of London Police have announced that they will prosecute
not only drivers who go through the final stop line when the
traffic light is reds, but also drivers who go through the initial
stop line before the cycle box.


About time too. I can only recall two occasions on my daily cycle
commute when there haven't been cars in the cycle box.

On a busy road, that is legal and expected.

Why?

Brimstone wrote:
In ,
Nick Finnigan said:

Chris! wrote:

John Rowland wrote:


The City Of London Police have announced that they will prosecute
not only drivers who go through the final stop line when the
traffic light is reds, but also drivers who go through the initial
stop line before the cycle box.


About time too. I can only recall two occasions on my daily cycle
commute when there haven't been cars in the cycle box.

On a busy road, that is legal and expected.


Why?

Walter has posted HC rule 154 which shows it is legal.
If vehicles are close together, one will generally have proceeded over
the first white line at the time the signal turns red.

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
Brimstone wrote:
In ,
Nick Finnigan said:

Chris! wrote:

John Rowland wrote:


The City Of London Police have announced that they will prosecute
not only drivers who go through the final stop line when the
traffic light is reds, but also drivers who go through the initial
stop line before the cycle box.


About time too. I can only recall two occasions on my daily cycle
commute when there haven't been cars in the cycle box.

On a busy road, that is legal and expected.


Why?

Walter has posted HC rule 154 which shows it is legal.
If vehicles are close together, one will generally have proceeded over the
first white line at the time the signal turns red.

Only if the driver ignores the meaning of an amber traffic light.

Ian

Ian wrote:
"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message


Walter has posted HC rule 154 which shows it is legal.
If vehicles are close together, one will generally have proceeded over the
first white line at the time the signal turns red.


Only if the driver ignores the meaning of an amber traffic light.

Nope. If the vehicles are close enough, one of them will have to wait
between the different Stop Lines, in order to obey the HC and the law.
And vehicles approaching traffic lights in London are often close enough
to stop a Taxi pulling into the gap.

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
Ian wrote:
"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message


Walter has posted HC rule 154 which shows it is legal.
If vehicles are close together, one will generally have proceeded over
the first white line at the time the signal turns red.


Only if the driver ignores the meaning of an amber traffic light.

Nope. If the vehicles are close enough, one of them will have to wait
between the different Stop Lines, in order to obey the HC and the law. And
vehicles approaching traffic lights in London are often close enough to
stop a Taxi pulling into the gap.

So you are talking about the case where a car is in a queue moving slowly
forward. The traffic lights change from green after he has passed the first
stop line and before he has passed the second line. TSRGD2002 Section 5
paragraph 43 says,

'2) Where the road marking shown in diagram 1001.2 has been placed in
conjunction with light signals, "stop line" in relation to those light
signals means -


(a) the first stop line, in the case of a vehicle (other than a pedal
cycle proceeding in the cycle lane) which has not proceeded beyond that
line; or

(b) the second stop line, in the case of a vehicle which has proceeded
beyond the first stop line or of a pedal cycle proceeding in the cycle
lane.'
The road marking in the diagram is a stop line incidentally.
However, red light cameras are not normally activated until a few seconds
after the lights have turned red and they take two photos a short time apart
to show that the vehicle was moving after the red light came on. If a car
stopped at a red light inside the cycle box he hasn't committed an offence
unless he entered the box whilst the red light was on. In which case he
would have passed the first stop line a few seconds after the traffic lights
went red.
Ian

Ian wrote:
"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message

Walter has posted HC rule 154 which shows it is legal.
If vehicles are close together, one will generally have proceeded over the
first white line at the time the signal turns red.


Only if the driver ignores the meaning of an amber traffic light.

You seem to have a different interpretation of the regs to me, and I
can't see why, so here a simpler example:

You are driving (a motor vehicle) at a safe and legal speed, with no
other vehicles moving in your direction for 200 yards, approaching some
(green) traffic lights which have these two stop lines in front of them.
Then the lights change to amber; you move your foot to cover the brake
pedal, and realize that you can not (physically, and so safely) stop
before reaching the first stop line. You can, however, stop safely
before passing the second stop line. You can also get past the second
stop line before the lights change to red (based on experience).

What legal options do you have? Which is the best one?

Nick Finnigan wrote:

You are driving (a motor vehicle) at a safe and legal speed, with no
other vehicles moving in your direction for 200 yards, approaching some
(green) traffic lights which have these two stop lines in front of them.
Then the lights change to amber; you move your foot to cover the brake
pedal, and realize that you can not (physically, and so safely) stop
before reaching the first stop line. You can, however, stop safely
before passing the second stop line. You can also get past the second
stop line before the lights change to red (based on experience).

What legal options do you have? Which is the best one?

Stop at the second line.

Though as the lines are so close together it's rarely as cut and dried
as this. Stopping halfway betwen would still allow a bike to fit in
front of you, and is worth doing if you can.

Colin McKenzie

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
Ian wrote:
"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message

Walter has posted HC rule 154 which shows it is legal.
If vehicles are close together, one will generally have proceeded over
the first white line at the time the signal turns red.


Only if the driver ignores the meaning of an amber traffic light.

You seem to have a different interpretation of the regs to me, and I
can't see why, so here a simpler example:

You are driving (a motor vehicle) at a safe and legal speed, with no
other vehicles moving in your direction for 200 yards, approaching some
(green) traffic lights which have these two stop lines in front of them.
Then the lights change to amber; you move your foot to cover the brake
pedal, and realize that you can not (physically, and so safely) stop
before reaching the first stop line. You can, however, stop safely before
passing the second stop line. You can also get past the second stop line
before the lights change to red (based on experience).

What legal options do you have? Which is the best one?

Legally you should stop at the second stop line. That is what it says in
TSRGD2002 Section 5 paragraph 43 (b).

As I understand it, red light cameras are normally only active a few seconds
after the red light has come on and they are activated by movement. They
take two photos with a gap between them to prove motion. So a red light
camera wouldn't detect a stationary vehicle in the cycle box. To be detected
it would need to cross the first line a few seconds after the red light came
on.

Ian