The City Of London Police have announced that they will prosecute not only
drivers who go through the final stop line when the traffic light is reds,
but also drivers who go through the initial stop line before the cycle box.
This makes it noticeably harder to stop legally during the amber phase. I
don't see how the police can do this without lengthening the amber phase to
compensate, but even that doesn't really help. I think the only fair
solution is to remove the final stop line - since cyclists have no license
plates, the final stop line no longer serves any purpose except to allow the
prosecution of drivers who went through the meaningful initial stop line
during the amber phase, which will of course increase scamera revenue, at
the expense of large amounts of tax revenue when professional drivers lose
their licences in droves (drove being the past tense of drive.... hehehe).

Incidentally, I waited immediately behind the cycle box yesterday for the
green light for turning right from Silvertown Way to George Street, and
after about five minutes the driver behind tapped on my window and informed
me that the sensor only activated if I pulled my car forward onto the green
box!

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:51:48 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:


The City Of London Police have announced that they will prosecute not only
drivers who go through the final stop line when the traffic light is reds,
but also drivers who go through the initial stop line before the cycle box.

Of course they are. The stop line for cars is before the cycle box.
The cycle box is for cycles.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:31:58 +0100, James Farrar wrote:

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:51:48 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:


The City Of London Police have announced that they will prosecute not only
drivers who go through the final stop line when the traffic light is reds,
but also drivers who go through the initial stop line before the cycle box.

Of course they are. The stop line for cars is before the cycle box.
The cycle box is for cycles.

And cycles are for ****wits, and thus we close the circle, grasshopper.

"John Rowland" wrote in message

The City Of London Police have announced that they will prosecute not only
drivers who go through the final stop line when the traffic light is reds,
but also drivers who go through the initial stop line before the cycle
box. This makes it noticeably harder to stop legally during the amber
phase. I don't see how the police can do this without lengthening the
amber phase to compensate, but even that doesn't really help. I think the
only fair solution is to remove the final stop line - since cyclists have
no license plates, the final stop line no longer serves any purpose except
to allow the prosecution of drivers who went through the meaningful
initial stop line during the amber phase, which will of course increase
scamera revenue, at the expense of large amounts of tax revenue when
professional drivers lose their licences in droves (drove being the past
tense of drive.... hehehe).


The amber phase is 3 seconds long. The distance between the motor vehicle
and bicycle stop lines is usually about 10 feet. If you are approaching the
lights at 30 mph that is 44 feet/sec. So we are talking about stopping a
quarter of a second earlier. If you have difficulty stopping at the correct
line you shouldn't be driving.

Ian

Ian wrote in
:

If you have
difficulty stopping at the correct line you shouldn't be driving.

In my experience, in wet weather (when the road is shiny) or at night, it's
very hard to see that there's a cycle box from a distance so you plan your
braking based on the assumption that the stop line is level with the traffic
light pole. Then as you get closer, you suddenly discover that you need to
stop further back that you'd anticipated.

The solution to this is to move the traffic light poles back so they are
level with the car stop line.

In ,
Martin Underwood said:
Ian wrote in
:

If you have
difficulty stopping at the correct line you shouldn't be driving.

In my experience, in wet weather (when the road is shiny) or at
night, it's very hard to see that there's a cycle box from a distance
so you plan your braking based on the assumption that the stop line
is level with the traffic light pole. Then as you get closer, you
suddenly discover that you need to stop further back that you'd
anticipated.
The solution to this is to move the traffic light poles back so they
are level with the car stop line.

Which would permit cyclists to go through a red light legitimately and then
what the self-righteous car drivers have to huff and puff about?

Brimstone wrote:
In ,
Martin Underwood said:
Ian wrote in
:

If you have
difficulty stopping at the correct line you shouldn't be driving.

In my experience, in wet weather (when the road is shiny) or at
night, it's very hard to see that there's a cycle box from a distance
so you plan your braking based on the assumption that the stop line
is level with the traffic light pole. Then as you get closer, you
suddenly discover that you need to stop further back that you'd
anticipated.
The solution to this is to move the traffic light poles back so they
are level with the car stop line.

Which would permit cyclists to go through a red light legitimately
and then what the self-righteous car drivers have to huff and puff
about?

My thoughts exaclty - and I've driven plenty of miles in London and have
never (in all conditions) had to pass the stop line when on red.

[ngs trimmed]

Steve Firth wrote:
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:31:58 +0100, James Farrar wrote:

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:51:48 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:


The City Of London Police have announced that they will prosecute not only
drivers who go through the final stop line when the traffic light is reds,
but also drivers who go through the initial stop line before the cycle box.

Of course they are. The stop line for cars is before the cycle box.
The cycle box is for cycles.

And cycles are for ****wits, and thus we close the circle, grasshopper.

*boggle*

checks newsgroups line

realization dawns

John, I thought better of you... you *know* xposting to uk.transport is
borderline trolling!

--
Larry Lard
Replies to group please

"Martin Underwood" wrote in message Ian wrote in


If you have
difficulty stopping at the correct line you shouldn't be driving.

In my experience, in wet weather (when the road is shiny) or at night,
it's very hard to see that there's a cycle box from a distance so you plan
your braking based on the assumption that the stop line is level with the
traffic light pole. Then as you get closer, you suddenly discover that you
need to stop further back that you'd anticipated.

The solution to this is to move the traffic light poles back so they are
level with the car stop line.


How about the cycle lane on the nearside of the road on the approach to the
traffic lights? If you can't see that you need your eyes tested. If you can
see it then you should anticipate that there is likely to be a cycle box at
the traffic lights.

Ian

In message of Thu, 27 Apr 2006
23:51:48 in uk.transport.london, John Rowland
writes

The City Of London Police have announced that they will prosecute not only
drivers who go through the final stop line when the traffic light is reds,
but also drivers who go through the initial stop line before the cycle box.

Where? The nearest relevant URL I found is
http://www.cityoflondon.police.uk/community/stoplines.html
That describes the rules but says nothing about new enforcement
policies. 'phone information confirms a new practice is being developed.
Leaflets - not yet ready - will publicise the campaign.
I await a call back from the relevant COLP person. When I find out more,
I will say.

This makes it noticeably harder to stop legally during the amber phase. I
don't see how the police can do this without lengthening the amber phase to
compensate, but even that doesn't really help. I think the only fair

Why? We have the same time to stop. The distances are just pushed back
by a few metres. I imagine that the relevant line is the advance stop
line rather than the cycle stop line.

solution is to remove the final stop line - since cyclists have no license
plates, the final stop line no longer serves any purpose except to allow the

Cyclists may also be prosecuted for stop line offences. Obviously, the
lack of a license plate makes this much less likely than for motorists.

prosecution of drivers who went through the meaningful initial stop line
during the amber phase, which will of course increase scamera revenue, at
the expense of large amounts of tax revenue when professional drivers lose
their licences in droves (drove being the past tense of drive.... hehehe).

I look forward to a few such prosecutions being made to persuade motor
cyclists and black cab drivers not to stop in cycle boxes. I like to
think the main problem is ignorance of the rules. I increased my
knowledge by reading in http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/16.htm
154: Advanced stop lines. Some junctions have advanced stop lines or
bus advance areas to allow cycles and buses to be positioned ahead of
other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the
first white line reached, and should avoid encroaching on the marked
area. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the
time the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even
if your vehicle is in the marked area.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 43(2)


Incidentally, I waited immediately behind the cycle box yesterday for the
green light for turning right from Silvertown Way to George Street, and
after about five minutes the driver behind tapped on my window and informed
me that the sensor only activated if I pulled my car forward onto the green
box!

In E16? I suggest you report it to the relevant local authority.
Metropolitan Plod should be able to advise. I believe a failed
installation is legally ineffective. I used to work on Area Traffic
Control where maximum cycle times were 120 seconds. I now wait until I
have noticed the delay and a further two minutes before proceeding with
caution.

It is EXTREMELY hard to comply with all traffic regulations and the
policy of automatic penalties is very hard. As an amateur motor vehicle
driver, I get two or three tickets each year. I am currently resisting
one. It was depressing that the helpline of the issuing London Borough
and several others could not point to the relevant legislation.
--
Walter Briscoe