On 28 Jun 2006 11:42:00 -0700, wrote:


Ned Carlson wrote:

What I'm wondering, is HTF did apostrophes get into the
English language, anyway? None of its ancestor/contributing
languages (Anglo-Saxon, Norse, French, Celtic) use or
used apostrophes, did they?

Didn't the British government go on a campaign a few years
ago to eliminate unnecessary punctuation in bureaucratic
communications, aside from commas and full stops (what us
Americans call a period)?


There was no such campaign to my knowledge. But, I have been a
resident of these United States for most of the past twenty years. I
believe it is the UK practice not to use commas in legal documents.

Probably not so much avoiding commas in particular as more generally
avoiding abbreviations which in some cases could have serious
consequences due to uncertain meaning.
snip
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson: | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|

On 25 Jun 2006 04:43:18 -0700, "
wrote:

Would they be equally patronising when referring to "Jesus' birthplace"
or "Zeus' Temple" or "King James' Version" (as in bible)? Only one of
these is of two syllables, and none of these are of Greek origin or a
"whim"!

Er... Zeus is Greek, and Jesus is from the Greek form of a Hebrew (or
Aramaic) original.

Phil Clark wrote:
On 25 Jun 2006 04:43:18 -0700, "
wrote:

Would they be equally patronising when referring to "Jesus' birthplace"
or "Zeus' Temple" or "King James' Version" (as in bible)? Only one of
these is of two syllables, and none of these are of Greek origin or a
"whim"!

Er... Zeus is Greek, and Jesus is from the Greek form of a Hebrew (or
Aramaic) original.

Correct, AND, it is the "King James Version". It is named for the King
who authorized the translation. The "S" is not a possessive.

Adrian

thoss wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 Stephen Sprunk wrote:

In general, all punctuation and diacritical marks are dropped to make
signs and addresses as easy to read/write as possible. Therefore "St.
John's" becomes "St Johns" (notice the two changes).

Well, the first change is welcome because your original is wrong IMHO.
To quote the Concise Oxford Dictionary "Abbreviations are made chiefly
in two ways....(2)Some portion of the middle of the word is dropped out,
the first and last letter being retained...the writing of a full stop at
the end of these, though now usual, is to be deprecated....The method
adopted in the following list is to omit the otiose full stop".
--
Thoss

Anyone who abbreviates Cheshunt should do so cautiously....

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 Marksman wrote:


thoss wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 Stephen Sprunk wrote:

In general, all punctuation and diacritical marks are dropped to make
signs and addresses as easy to read/write as possible. Therefore "St.
John's" becomes "St Johns" (notice the two changes).

Well, the first change is welcome because your original is wrong IMHO.
To quote the Concise Oxford Dictionary "Abbreviations are made chiefly
in two ways....(2)Some portion of the middle of the word is dropped out,
the first and last letter being retained...the writing of a full stop at
the end of these, though now usual, is to be deprecated....The method
adopted in the following list is to omit the otiose full stop".
--
Thoss

Anyone who abbreviates Cheshunt should do so cautiously....

Eh? I've never knowingly written the name of that town, in full or
abbreviated.
--
Thoss

wrote in message
oups.com...

Richard Rundle wrote:
"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message .com,

In cartography there has been a long tradition of copying and updating
earlier maps (with some notable exceptions) because of the cost of
surveying and plate-making. It would probably be fair to say that the
two big London re-mapping projects in the 1860s (Stanford's Library
Map
and Weller's Dispatch Atlas) tended to set new standards of accuracy.
These days, I suspect that mapmakers generally follow the lead given
by
the Ordnance Survey, especially with regard to spellings of road and
place names.


And the Ordnance Survey should get their information on street names
from
the Local Authorities, who have a statutory function for Street Naming &
Numbering. You can have a lot of sleep-inducing time with this stuff if
you
want to look at British Standard BS7666.

Thank you. I did a Google search on "British Standard BS7666". It
returned some excellent information about UK Mailing Address
structures. I noted the absence of punctuation. However, I didn't
notice anything directly relating to street name sign posting. Maybe I
need to dig a little deeper.

This was great information.


It's more to do with geographic address than postal addresses unfortunately.
In the early days of the standard, the rules on which punctuation could
appear was very harsh. My Council had an issue with Westward Ho!, as the
standard designers had prohibited an exclamation mark as a valid character
in an address. After we had our first two files sent to the national hub
rejected, we managed to get them to "turn a blind eye" before we got our way
and the exclamation mark was permitted in later publications of the
standard.

--
Richard

On 27 Jun 2006 11:25:43 -0700, "Solario"
wrote:


Mark B wrote:

Which is right,
St James' Park (on the signs)
St James Park (in the FGW Timetable)
Pronounced St James's Park, both locally and on the AutoAnouncer

Opinion

The first example could be wrong in context. If it is a street name
sign it should read "St James Park". If it is a park name board then
I guess St James' Park could be correct. I would expect a station name
board to follow street name sign conventions.

Street signs in St James's seem to be consistent in the use of the
spelling St James's. Not sure about the park though, haven't been
that way recently.

Phil Clark wrote:
On 27 Jun 2006 11:25:43 -0700, "Solario"
wrote:


Mark B wrote:

Which is right,
St James' Park (on the signs)
St James Park (in the FGW Timetable)
Pronounced St James's Park, both locally and on the AutoAnouncer

Opinion

The first example could be wrong in context. If it is a street name
sign it should read "St James Park". If it is a park name board then
I guess St James' Park could be correct. I would expect a station name
board to follow street name sign conventions.

Street signs in St James's seem to be consistent in the use of the
spelling St James's. Not sure about the park though, haven't been
that way recently.

This, strictly speaking is incorrect. Street signage by statutory
bodies should NOT contain punctuation.

Adrian.

wrote:
Richard Rundle wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Richard Rundle wrote:

want to look at British Standard BS7666.

Thank you. I did a Google search on "British Standard BS7666".
It returned some excellent information about UK Mailing Address
structures. I noted the absence of punctuation. However, I
didn't notice anything directly relating to street name sign
posting. Maybe I need to dig a little deeper.

This was great information.


It's more to do with geographic address than postal addresses

Indeed, that was apparent. This standard looks as if it could be a
real help in real estate transactions. I am thinking in terms of
both statutory bodies and real estate agents.

Some of the elements (fields) laid out in the standard are very
similar to those required in a UK mailing address. The odd one is
were a unitary authority may be required instead of a County. Then,
again the use of counties in UK addresses is unusual compared with
other territories and inconsistent. E.g. So many postal towns now
longer need to be qualified by a county.

*No* UK postal addresses now need the county to be included. I find it
irritating when websites ask for your address with the county as a
mandatory field. Many of them will not accept an address in the form
123 Xyz Road, London, [postcode]. You are forced either to enter London
twice or to insert an unnecessary district name such as Acton in place
of the town name.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

wrote:

This, strictly speaking is incorrect. Street signage by statutory
bodies should NOT contain punctuation.

This is law? Does it apply to road signs to Westward Ho! ?


--
Just because I've written it doesn't mean that
either you or I have to believe it.