wrote:

Where there is some discussion is if the given name already ends with S.

Eg JAMES'S PALACE
or JAMES' PALACE

But never JAMES PALACE

Can't agree on that. It's a palace or court named for St. James,
not possessed by St. James. Apostrophe indicates possession.
Ambassadors to Britain are appointed to the Court of Saint James, not
Saint James' Court. However, the official royal website calls the
palace, St. James's Palace.

The irony is that St. James was supposedly buried in Compostela, Spain,
and is one of the patron saints of Spain. In Spanish, he has
a special name, "Santiago". You'd think after defeating the
Spanish Armada, the royal house might have thought about renaming
the palace, huh?


--
Ned Carlson
SW side of Chicago, USA
www.tubezone.net

In message , at
08:21:09 on Tue, 27 Jun 2006, Ned Carlson
remarked:
However, the official royal website calls the palace, St. James's
Palace.

And all the old maps I have ever found (going back centuries) also use
that spelling (for the palace and nearby roads, churches etc).
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
08:21:09 on Tue, 27 Jun 2006, Ned Carlson
remarked:
However, the official royal website calls the palace, St. James's
Palace.

And all the old maps I have ever found (going back centuries) also use
that spelling (for the palace and nearby roads, churches etc).
--
Roland Perry

So the question is: Do cartographers follow street signposting
conventions, or, do they "correct" the spelling of street names
back into their normal English form?

Moreover, has cartographic practice, in this respect, changed over
time?

Adrian.

In message .com, at
09:00:55 on Tue, 27 Jun 2006, remarked:
However, the official royal website calls the palace, St. James's
Palace.

And all the old maps I have ever found (going back centuries) also use
that spelling (for the palace and nearby roads, churches etc).

So the question is: Do cartographers follow street signposting
conventions, or, do they "correct" the spelling of street names
back into their normal English form?

I doubt if the old maps I have are derived from street signage.

Moreover, has cartographic practice, in this respect, changed over
time?

If there's a dispute between the cartographer's long term understanding
of what a street is called, and what the council puts a sign up saying,
I expect they have a dialogue.
--
Roland Perry

In message .com,
writes

So the question is: Do cartographers follow street signposting
conventions, or, do they "correct" the spelling of street names
back into their normal English form?

Don't rely on cartographers (not at least before the late 19th century)
for definitive spellings. It is common to find quite different spellings
of the same word, such as "fyelde and feild" [sic], or "saint and
seynte" on the same map - remember that English spelling was not
standardised in bygone times.

Moreover, has cartographic practice, in this respect, changed over
time?

In cartography there has been a long tradition of copying and updating
earlier maps (with some notable exceptions) because of the cost of
surveying and plate-making. It would probably be fair to say that the
two big London re-mapping projects in the 1860s (Stanford's Library Map
and Weller's Dispatch Atlas) tended to set new standards of accuracy.
These days, I suspect that mapmakers generally follow the lead given by
the Ordnance Survey, especially with regard to spellings of road and
place names.
--
Paul Terry

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message .com,

In cartography there has been a long tradition of copying and updating
earlier maps (with some notable exceptions) because of the cost of
surveying and plate-making. It would probably be fair to say that the
two big London re-mapping projects in the 1860s (Stanford's Library Map
and Weller's Dispatch Atlas) tended to set new standards of accuracy.
These days, I suspect that mapmakers generally follow the lead given by
the Ordnance Survey, especially with regard to spellings of road and
place names.


And the Ordnance Survey should get their information on street names from
the Local Authorities, who have a statutory function for Street Naming &
Numbering. You can have a lot of sleep-inducing time with this stuff if you
want to look at British Standard BS7666.

--
Richard

Richard Rundle wrote:
"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message .com,

In cartography there has been a long tradition of copying and updating
earlier maps (with some notable exceptions) because of the cost of
surveying and plate-making. It would probably be fair to say that the
two big London re-mapping projects in the 1860s (Stanford's Library Map
and Weller's Dispatch Atlas) tended to set new standards of accuracy.
These days, I suspect that mapmakers generally follow the lead given by
the Ordnance Survey, especially with regard to spellings of road and
place names.


And the Ordnance Survey should get their information on street names from
the Local Authorities, who have a statutory function for Street Naming &
Numbering. You can have a lot of sleep-inducing time with this stuff if you
want to look at British Standard BS7666.

Thank you. I did a Google search on "British Standard BS7666". It
returned some excellent information about UK Mailing Address
structures. I noted the absence of punctuation. However, I didn't
notice anything directly relating to street name sign posting. Maybe I
need to dig a little deeper.

This was great information.

Adrian.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Richard Rundle wrote:
"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message .com,

In cartography there has been a long tradition of copying and updating
earlier maps (with some notable exceptions) because of the cost of
surveying and plate-making. It would probably be fair to say that the
two big London re-mapping projects in the 1860s (Stanford's Library
Map
and Weller's Dispatch Atlas) tended to set new standards of accuracy.
These days, I suspect that mapmakers generally follow the lead given
by
the Ordnance Survey, especially with regard to spellings of road and
place names.


And the Ordnance Survey should get their information on street names
from
the Local Authorities, who have a statutory function for Street Naming &
Numbering. You can have a lot of sleep-inducing time with this stuff if
you
want to look at British Standard BS7666.

Thank you. I did a Google search on "British Standard BS7666". It
returned some excellent information about UK Mailing Address
structures. I noted the absence of punctuation. However, I didn't
notice anything directly relating to street name sign posting. Maybe I
need to dig a little deeper.

This was great information.


It's more to do with geographic address than postal addresses unfortunately.
In the early days of the standard, the rules on which punctuation could
appear was very harsh. My Council had an issue with Westward Ho!, as the
standard designers had prohibited an exclamation mark as a valid character
in an address. After we had our first two files sent to the national hub
rejected, we managed to get them to "turn a blind eye" before we got our way
and the exclamation mark was permitted in later publications of the
standard.

--
Richard

wrote:

Thank you. I did a Google search on "British Standard BS7666".


So proving BS7666 is not my writing )

--
Nick

wrote:


So the question is: Do cartographers follow street signposting
conventions, or, do they "correct" the spelling of street names
back into their normal English form?

Moreover, has cartographic practice, in this respect, changed over
time?

Adrian.

What I'm wondering, is HTF did apostrophes get into the
English language, anyway? None of its ancestor/contributing
languages (Anglo-Saxon, Norse, French, Celtic) use or
used apostrophes, did they?

Didn't the British government go on a campaign a few years
ago to eliminate unnecessary punctuation in bureaucratic
communications, aside from commas and full stops (what us
Americans call a period)?


--
Ned Carlson
SW side of Chicago, USA
www.tubezone.net