On 9 Oct 2006 04:27:42 -0700, Mizter T wrote:

You've misunderstood my point because I didn't make myself at all clear
enough. My comments were in the context of a Gold Card holder
travelling alone.

Oops, sorry, I read some previous context into your post that wasn't
actually there.

This rule is so illogical and, quite frankly, ridiculous (in most such
circumstances it makes using the Gold Card far more expensive than
not), that it seems to have morphed into the "can't buy discounted
Travelcards for yourself" rule that has been disseminated to LU ticket
offices.

I think there is a logic to it - those accompanying a Gold Card holder
must have tickets that exactly mirror the holders (the "mirroring
rule", to coin a phrase), unless part of the route is already covered
by the Gold Card holders season ticket.

Firstly, I'm not sure if the "mirroring rule" really exists. I've just
read through all the Gold Card rules again and I'm still none the
wiser...

But anyway, it does specifically say that if you're travelling within
the validity of your season, you don't need to buy a ticket for
yourself. It then gives the "have to also buy a discounted ODTC for
yourself" rule as an *exception* to this. But then again, it says you
only have to do this if your season is "not valid for travel in all
the Travelcard zones" - I'd assumed this meant Z1-6, but perhaps it
just means all the zones you travel through?

The more you read these rules, the less clear they become!

asdf wrote:

On 9 Oct 2006 04:27:42 -0700, Mizter T wrote:

You've misunderstood my point because I didn't make myself at all clear
enough. My comments were in the context of a Gold Card holder
travelling alone.

Oops, sorry, I read some previous context into your post that wasn't
actually there.

My bad as the yanks (inexplicably) say! I first drafted my reply in the
context of a Gold Card holder & one or more accompanying passengers,
re-read Nicholas' post and thought in fact he was referring to just
the Gold Card holder. Re-reading it again (!) it's unclear.


This rule is so illogical and, quite frankly, ridiculous (in most such
circumstances it makes using the Gold Card far more expensive than
not), that it seems to have morphed into the "can't buy discounted
Travelcards for yourself" rule that has been disseminated to LU ticket
offices.

I think there is a logic to it - those accompanying a Gold Card holder
must have tickets that exactly mirror the holders (the "mirroring
rule", to coin a phrase), unless part of the route is already covered
by the Gold Card holders season ticket.

Firstly, I'm not sure if the "mirroring rule" really exists. I've just
read through all the Gold Card rules again and I'm still none the
wiser...

But anyway, it does specifically say that if you're travelling within
the validity of your season, you don't need to buy a ticket for
yourself. It then gives the "have to also buy a discounted ODTC for
yourself" rule as an *exception* to this. But then again, it says you
only have to do this if your season is "not valid for travel in all
the Travelcard zones" - I'd assumed this meant Z1-6, but perhaps it
just means all the zones you travel through?

The more you read these rules, the less clear they become!

It's not clear what logic is at play, but there will be thinking behind
it I'm sure.

As I first said if there is the "mirroring rule" concept then there'd
have to be all sorts of zonal combinations for Day Travelcards
specifically for those accompanying Gold Card holders. Apart from
anything this would be messy!

But I think it leads on to the second point I was trying to
inarticulately make - London Transport as was, and TfL as is, were/are
only willing to play along with railcard reductions on the condition
that the dicount applied to all-zones cards. I've no idea how the
revenue division works here - do NR cover the discount by taking less
out of the pot, or does TfL take a bit of a hit on the basis that Day
Travelcard sales will be higher. If anyone in the know can add any
information that's already in the public domain that'd be most
interesting.

This rule is so illogical and, quite frankly, ridiculous (in most such
circumstances it makes using the Gold Card far more expensive than

I think it might be to penalise annual ticket holders who split their
ticket to save money (like I do). I have a season from Potters Bar to
Oakleigh Park and a Z1-4 oyster, which saves nearly £400 annually over a
normal "all zones and extension" ticket. Probably like most commuters I
rarely stray from my route and any social stuff I do is along that route
and only out as far as Z2 in any other direction. I probably do Z3-6 about
twice a year if that, which I can do on prepay using vouchers when delayed
on the tube

But of course, if I try to buy a discounted travelcard for the girlfriend,
I have to buy one for myself. I bought a couple but finally the ticket
office informed me this was not allowed.

The ODTC is £10 so it's more expensive to buy two discounted tickets than
one undiscounted ticket, so we just pay full price. I haven't tried
mirroring my ticket getting a discount CDR and full price Z1-4 but I don't
expect the ticket office could sell such a ticket as we're outside Z6. If
they did, this brings the ticket down to £7.40

I guess we only go into London 20 or so times a year so that 17% saving on
my normal ticket is the better option.

D