This is from today's London Lite, (P13).

These are the kind of bus stops that drivers hate but TfL thought were
a great idea - instead of gonig into a layby to allow traffic to pass,
the bus simply blocks the road. I don't think the intention is so that
the buses can easily move out again, it is deliberate anti-car policy.
"Hey you can't go faster than a bus so leave the car at home and take
the bus"".

Anyway, these particular ones were put in perhaps the worst spot - on
the A1 Falloden Way, the only stretch of the A1 north of Highgate to be
single lane. They were also placed close to traffic islands so that
vehicles who tried to overtake anyway would be squeezed out. Police
said these were dangerous and have closed the bus stops.

That it cost £65k to redesign these bus stops that nobody really
wanted shows exactly what TfL are wasting money on.

Earl Purple wrote:

This is from today's London Lite, (P13).

These are the kind of bus stops that drivers hate but TfL thought were
a great idea - instead of gonig into a layby to allow traffic to pass,
the bus simply blocks the road. I don't think the intention is so that
the buses can easily move out again, it is deliberate anti-car policy.
"Hey you can't go faster than a bus so leave the car at home and take
the bus"".

No, the main reason is to eliminate the risk of accidents when people
cross the street in front of the bus before the bus drives away. When
people do so, there is a great risk that a car passing the standing bus
hit the pedestrians. It is a quite common kind of traffic accident in
most countries, especially at bus stops where lots of children go on or
off buses.

--
Olof Lagerkvist
ICQ: 724451
Web: http://here.is/olof

On 9 Nov 2006 10:33:36 -0800, "Earl Purple"
wrote:

This is from today's London Lite, (P13).

These are the kind of bus stops that drivers hate but TfL thought were
a great idea - instead of gonig into a layby to allow traffic to pass,
the bus simply blocks the road. I don't think the intention is so that
the buses can easily move out again, it is deliberate anti-car policy.
"Hey you can't go faster than a bus so leave the car at home and take
the bus"".

Anyway, these particular ones were put in perhaps the worst spot - on
the A1 Falloden Way, the only stretch of the A1 north of Highgate to be
single lane. They were also placed close to traffic islands so that
vehicles who tried to overtake anyway would be squeezed out. Police
said these were dangerous and have closed the bus stops.

That it cost £65k to redesign these bus stops that nobody really
wanted shows exactly what TfL are wasting money on.

It's only anti-stupid-car and anti-selfish-car. There's very little
point in trying to overtake buses on that stretch, you just get stuck
seconds later in the next queue of traffic anyway. Might as well just
go in convoy with the buses and the whole thing would run smoother
then.

Peter Frimberley wrote:
It's only anti-stupid-car and anti-selfish-car. There's very little
point in trying to overtake buses on that stretch, you just get stuck
seconds later in the next queue of traffic anyway.

In heavy traffic maybe , but if the traffic is light why would you want
to
be stuck behind a bus that keeps stopping when the road is
clear ahead? It wouldnt be so bad if passengers could just board
the bus and the conductor take the money , but of course with cheapo
OP operation theres always some faffing around with fares even if
the majority use oyster. And of course that delays the bus and
everyone stuck behind it.

B2003

Peter Frimberley wrote:
On 9 Nov 2006 10:33:36 -0800, "Earl Purple"
wrote:

This is from today's London Lite, (P13).

These are the kind of bus stops that drivers hate but TfL thought
were a great idea - instead of gonig into a layby to allow traffic
to pass, the bus simply blocks the road. I don't think the intention
is so that the buses can easily move out again, it is deliberate
anti-car policy. "Hey you can't go faster than a bus so leave the
car at home and take the bus"".

Anyway, these particular ones were put in perhaps the worst spot - on
the A1 Falloden Way, the only stretch of the A1 north of Highgate to
be single lane. They were also placed close to traffic islands so
that vehicles who tried to overtake anyway would be squeezed out.
Police said these were dangerous and have closed the bus stops.

That it cost £65k to redesign these bus stops that nobody really
wanted shows exactly what TfL are wasting money on.

It's only anti-stupid-car and anti-selfish-car. There's very little
point in trying to overtake buses on that stretch, you just get stuck
seconds later in the next queue of traffic anyway.

Not if you're heading for Addison Way, which I invariably am.

Might as well just
go in convoy with the buses and the whole thing would run smoother
then.

sigh

Olof Lagerkvist wrote:
Earl Purple wrote:

No, the main reason is to eliminate the risk of accidents when people
cross the street in front of the bus before the bus drives away. When
people do so, there is a great risk that a car passing the standing bus
hit the pedestrians. It is a quite common kind of traffic accident in
most countries, especially at bus stops where lots of children go on or
off buses.

Crossing in front of the bus before the bus drives away is a very
stupid thing to do.

In the USA, when a school bus is stopped they sometimes stop all the
traffic around it, a bit over-zealously at times.

One concept (for London buses), if you want to allow the bus to pull
out again, would be to have traffic lights on the back of the bus
itself, thus as the bus needs to pull out the light would go red for
traffic and the bus driver would have his own set of lights and he
would wait for green. These signals would generate automatically with
the bus driver's normal manoeuvres so while the doors are open they
would be green for passing traffic and red for the bus. After it goes
red for the traffic it would wait a few seconds to allow them to
complete the passing manoeuvre but at least the bus would get out
within a few seconds.

If pedestrians want to cross, I guess they could do so safely behind
the bus, once the bus signal goes red. Once the bus pulls out the
signal on the bus will go out.

Peter Frimberley wrote:

It's only anti-stupid-car and anti-selfish-car. There's very little
point in trying to overtake buses on that stretch, you just get stuck
seconds later in the next queue of traffic anyway. Might as well just
go in convoy with the buses and the whole thing would run smoother
then.

If you are heading East (towards Highgate) then the road becomes 2-lane
again and eases up once you pass the first signal. In fact the road is
generally moving steadily once you pass the merge.

Heading West (towards Hendon) the road expands to 2 lanes just passed
the Addison Way junction. That approach to Henlys Corner is never quite
as busy as the one from the A406, plus there are some who will turn
into Addison Way anyway, either because they are going to Temple
Fortune (Golders Green) or because they are rat-running out the
junction (which actually isn't worth it unless it is very busy).

And that's assuming it's rush hour.

Earl Purple wrote:

In the USA, when a school bus is stopped they sometimes stop all the
traffic around it, a bit over-zealously at times.

School buses don't operate every 5 minutes...

One concept (for London buses), if you want to allow the bus to pull
out again, would be to have traffic lights on the back of the bus
itself, thus as the bus needs to pull out the light would go red for
traffic and the bus driver would have his own set of lights and he
would wait for green.

Traffic lights behind the bus stop could be provided, if it's a real
problem. These could turn red a specified amount of time (30 seconds?)
after activation of the induction loop in the stop, and turn green
again a specified amount of time (10 seconds?) after the induction loop
in the stop no longer detected the bus.

Traffic light arrangements like these are common in Germany and the
Netherlands, and work very well. They're also used to allow such
things as a bus turning left from a right-hand bus lane, or for buses
to overtake a line of stationary cars (the latter setups exist in the
UK in places - Peartree P&R in Oxford is one example).

Neil

Peter Frimberley wrote:

It's only anti-stupid-car and anti-selfish-car. There's very little
point in trying to overtake buses on that stretch, you just get stuck
seconds later in the next queue of traffic anyway. Might as well just
go in convoy with the buses and the whole thing would run smoother
then.

The Dutch commonly enforce this kind of thing by having central
reservations even on "single-carriageway" roads.

Neil

"Earl Purple" wrote

[snip]

In the USA, when a school bus is stopped they sometimes stop all
the
traffic around it, a bit over-zealously at times.

[snip]

In the USA, when a school bus stops to let children on or off, it
turns on big red flashing lights that mean all other traffic must
stop. That's pretty universal in every state. Almost any flashing
red light in the USA implies that you must stop.

Stopping for a school bus, unlike, say, parking too close to a fire
hydrant, is one of those laws that public opinion expects you to
obey. Americans don't like people putting their children at risk.

"A bit over zealously at times" I take it is a euphemism for "I got a
ticket once for not doing it"

Jeremy Parker