Hi,

Please could someone suggest the best/most definitive book on the
underground? I'm totally new to the subject, and wanted to start with a
book that won't waste my time.

Thanks,
Paul

"Paul Thompson" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

Please could someone suggest the best/most definitive book on the
underground? I'm totally new to the subject, and wanted to start with a
book that won't waste my time.

I suggest it's probably this:

http://www.ianallanpublishing.com/ca...ducts_id=39026

tim

Simple answer is to take a stroll down to the LT Museum at Covent
Garden and ask for a recommendation.

IIRC one publication in particular is regarded as the poodles dangly
bits by the Museum staff for their own reference purposes, but I'll be
d****d if I can remember what it is ...

In message .com, Paul
Thompson writes

Please could someone suggest the best/most definitive book on the
underground? I'm totally new to the subject, and wanted to start with a
book that won't waste my time.

Since so much has been published on the subject, you are likely to get a
number of diverse suggestions.

For me, the most comprehensive and authoritative historical study is:

Desmond F Croome and Alan A Jackson, Rails through the clay: A
history of London's Tube railways, Capital Transport, 1993.

Be aware, though, that (a) it deals only with the tube system and not
with sub-surface systems such as the District and Met, and (b) it is
currently out of print. Second-hand copies are often *very* expensive,
but it is at least worth getting a copy through your local public
library.
--
Paul Terry

Paul Thompson writes:
Please could someone suggest the best/most definitive book on the
underground? I'm totally new to the subject, and wanted to start with a
book that won't waste my time.

You probably want "London's Underground"; see below. And if that
just whets your appetite, proceed next to "Rails Through the Clay".

Here's a mail message I wrote on this subject in 1999, with minor
updates in square brackets. Text quoted below with "" is from the
person I was replying to then.

************************************************** *******************

If you haven't read Clive's Underground Line Guides (CULG), do so.
[That's http://www.davros.org/rail/culg]

Can you recommend a good, interesting book on the London underground.
Something that covers the history, something of the operation and running,
railway lore, all manner of curious facts, and has lots of pictures?

You probably want "London's Underground"; see below. And if that
just whets your appetite, proceed next to "Rails Through the Clay".

I would be most grateful to hear your suggestions.

Let me run through the list of sources in CULG and give my comments
on each of them that I've read. Of course, many of these are out
of print.

[Clive's list is at http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/biblio.html
and has been considerably updated since I took the content quoted
here. But all of the newer additions are on specialized subjects,
like specific lines.]

# Sources
# =======
# [In these descriptions, codes like H123m are interpreted as:
# H = hardback, P = paperback
# 123 is the number of pages
# m = monochrome pictures within the text
# c = colour pictures within the text
# p = monochrome plates inserted between some pages
# ]

I will append to this a code for the page size -- L for large (11-12"),
M for medium (9-10"), S for small (7-8"), VS for very small -- where
I know it, and mostly from memory. "?" means I've seen the book but
haven't read it and am remembering the page size.

# * Rails through the Clay, by Desmond F. Croome and Alan A. Jackson,
# 2nd ed., pub.1993 Capital Transport Publishing, H574mM, ISBN 1-85414-151-1;

The definitive, in-depth book on the tube lines (i.e. Bakerloo,
Central, Jubilee, Northern, Piccadilly, Victoria, and Waterloo & City):
note the page count. Well illustrated, but perhaps not at the level
that your phrase "lots of pictures" suggests. Endnoted (in the manner
of scholarly works -- you can look up where they got some fact from).
Good index, except that it needs more sub-entries so you don't have
to look up 10 different page references to find which one you want.

Incidentally, the first edition came out more than 30 years before;
the authors were too busy to do another until after they had retired.

I've heard, probably on uk.transport.london, that this is currently
out of print. [It still is.] Should be available in decent libraries,
though.

# * A History of London Transport, by T.C. Barker and Michael Robbins,
# Vol 1: pub.1963 George Allen & Unwin, H412pM, pre-ISBN
# Vol 2: pub.1974 George Allen & Unwin, H554pM, ISBN 0-04-385063-4;

The definitive, in-depth book on public transit as a whole in London
up a cutoff date of 1947. (The subsequent period up to the date of
publication is only summarized, on the grounds that it's too recent
to have a proper historical perspective.) The only book I've seen
that addresses the different types of transport in anything like in
a unified fashion.

The dividing line between the two volumes is 1900. The page counts are
deceptive: if Volume 2 used the same typographical style as Volume 1,
it would probably have been more like 800 pages. There is a change
of primary author at the year 1914 (from Barker to Robbins); I find
Barker's material quite readable, while Robbins's is dry and harder
to follow.

Has a few illustrations, including some maps that can be found
nowhere else.

Endnoted. Good index to both volumes in Volume 2 (published only 11
years after Volume 1!)

# * A Short History of the Bakerloo Line, by M.A.C.Horne,
# pub.1990 Douglas Rose & Nebulous Books, P56mS, ISBN 1-870354-05-2;
#
# * A Short History of the Central Line, by M.A.C.Horne,
# pub.1987 Douglas Rose & Nebulous Books, P56mS, ISBN 1-870354-01-X;
#
# * A Short History of the Northern Line, by M.A.C.Horne,
# pub.1987 Douglas Rose & Nebulous Books, P48mS, ISBN 1-870354-00-1;
#
# * A Short History of the Victoria Line, by M.A.C.Horne,
# pub.1988 Douglas Rose & Nebulous Books, P56mS, ISBN 1-870354-02-8;

Collect all 12! Actually, I don't know how many of these there are.
I've only glanced at them; I don't like the idea of subdividing
subjects into separate little books like that. I find it bizarre
that the Northern Line, whose history is easily the most complex (look
at CULG!), has fewer pages in its book than the others; I assume the
page size is uniform.

# * Going Green, by Piers Connor,
# pub.1993 Capital Transport, P80mcS?, ISBN 1-85414-157-0;

A similar book about the District Line. I've only glanced at it.

# * Reconstructing London's Underground, by H.Follenfant,
# pub.1974 London Transport, H184pS, ISBN 0-85329-039-3;

Many London stations, and some of the running tunnels, have had needed
major modifications since their original construction -- to increase
capacity, add connections to new lines, convert from elevator to
escalator access, etc. This book is about the civil engineering work
involved in all those conversions, in full detail. It also includes
a foldout copy of Stingemore's history map (see below).

# * The Story of London's Underground, by John R.Day,
# pub.1971 London Transport, P190pL?, SBN 85329-016-4;

I've only glanced at this. It looks similar to Glover's book, but
note the date of publication.

# * The London Underground, a Diagrammatic History, by Douglas Rose (currently
# in its 6th edition),
# pub. Douglas Rose, fold-out colour diagram, ISBN 1-870354-06-0;

This is a map, not a book; it draws the Underground system in
diagrammatic form and annotates each line and station with its date
of opening, any name changes, and so on. See also Stingemore's map,
below.

# * Railway Track Diagrams, volume 5 (England South and London Underground),
# pub.1994 Quail Map Company, P56, ISBN 1-898319-07-3;

Maps, not a book.

# * Sixty Years of the Bakerloo, by Charles E.Lee,
# pub.1966 London Transport, P24p, no ISBN;

Haven't seen this. Note the page count, anyway.

# * The City & South London Railway, by T.S.Lascelles, pub.1987
# The Oakwood Press (originally pub.1955), P48mS, ISBN 0-85361-360-5;

Another slim volume on a limited topic. The C&SLR (now part of the
Northern Line) was the first tube line, and a subject interesting
enough that I bought this.

# * Northern Wastes, by Jim Blake and Jonathan James,
# pub.1987 North London Transport Society, P48m, ISBN 0-3267304-0-2;

I haven't seen or heard of this. From the title I'm assuming it's
about the northern extensions to the Northern Line that were planned
and started before WW2 but never completed.

# * The West London Joint Railways, by J.B.Atkinson,
# pub.1984 Ian Allan, H128m, ISBN 0-7110-1381-0;

I haven't seen this. It would not be directly about any part of the
Underground, though.

# * Stepney's Own Railway, by J.E.Connor,
# pub.1987 Connor & Butler, P128m, ISBN 0-947699-08-2;

I haven't seen this. I think it's about the London & Blackwall,
not any part of the Underground.

# * London Underground Stations, by David Leboff,
# pub.1994 Ian Allan, P160mVS, ISBN 0-7110-2226-7;

This is an "abc" handbook listing each station alphabetically.
The author has made an effort to cover all aspects of each station,
but is obviously more interested in architectural topics than others.
The few stations that are served but not owned by the Underground
get short shrift here.

# * Underground News (a monthly magazine),
# pub. London Underground Railway Society, ISSN 0306 8617;

For hard-core fans only. Lots of text, few photos, produced by
amateurs. But it tries to cover *everything*. After Clive Feather
gave me several years of back issues, I decided to join the society to
get the magazine; I recall mailing $111 US (in cash, to save on money
order fees) to renew for 3 years without the premium for air mail.
http://www.lurs.demon.co.uk has current details and a sample issue
of the magazine. Typical issues are P48pS.

# * Inner Circle Railway map, by J.C.Gillham;
# unpublished

Haven't seen it.

# * various contacts within LU;

Haven't met them.

# * assorted Transit List and Usenet postings, particularly by Mark Brader;

*Him* I've met. :-)

# * and, of course, personal observation.

And him. :-)

# Other recommended books
# -----------------------
# The following books were not used directly in producing these files, though
# some may be sources for comments from other people.
#
# * The London Underground: An illustrated history, by Oliver Green,
# pub.1987 Ian Allan, P80mL, ISBN 0-7110-1720-4;

A good book if all you want is 80 pages and half the page space taken
up with pictures, but you're looking for something in a bit more depth.
Organized chronologically. No index.

# * Underground: Official Handbook, by Piers Connor
# pub.1988 Capital Transport Publishing, P80mcS, ISBN 0-904711-99-4;

More detail and fewer pictures than Green, but still necessarily
synoptic at that length. Organized by lines and subjects. No index.

# * London's Underground, by John Glover,
# 7th ed., pub.1991 Ian Allan, H160mL, ISBN 0-7110-1899-5;

This is the one that I think best meets your description of what
you want. Plenty of illustrations but plenty of text too, and enough
of it to give a degree of depth. Poor index, though.

The 7th is the edition I have, but there has definitely been at
least one newer edition. [The current edition is the 10th, ISBN
0-7110-2930-5.] The first 6 editions were by a different author,
Harry Howson, by the way; he doesn't get cover credit because Glover
completely rewrote the text.

# * The Age of the Electric Train, by J.C. Gillham,
# pub.1988 Ian Allan, H208mL, ISBN 0-7110-1392-6;

This covers all electric railways that have ever existed in Britain.
It includes scale maps, dates of opening, details about the method of
electrification, and great detail (with photos) about all rolling stock
used on each line. Maybe 1/4 of the book is about the Underground.

# * A Regional History of the Railways of Great Britain:
# Volume 3, Greater London, by H.P. White,
# pub.1987 David & Charles, H237pS, ISBN 0-946537-39-9;

As the title suggests, this covers all railways in greater London,
whether Underground or otherwise. Maybe 1/8 of the book is about
the Underground. No illustrations. More coverage of issues like
traffic levels and financial results than other books. Good index.
I think there's been a newer edition.

# * London's Underground Stations: A Social and Architectural Study,
# written and illustrated by Laurence Menear,
# pub.1983 Midas and 1985 Baton Transport, ISBN 0-85936-124-1.

As I recall, it's about H160mL. Strictly interested in the topics
indicated by the title. Many illustrations, but all are drawings by
the author rather than photos.



I also own the following items not mentioned in CULG but worth some
comment.

* London Under London: A Subterranean Guide, by Richard Trench(!!)
and Ellis Hillman(!), 2nd edition, pub.1993 John Murray, P240mM,
ISBN 0-7195-5288-5.

This covers the entire range of subterranea in London: lost rivers,
water mains, hydraulic power mains, underground railways, you name it.
It should therefore be of great interest to you -- but unfortunately,
in those areas where I already know something what it's talking about,
I can say that it's riddled with errors.

The worst single sentence is probably this, in the section on electric
power: it contains at least 4 clear errors and probably more, depending
on how you count!

! High voltages generate immense heat, known as superconductivity and
! caused by the resistance set up within the cable by the alternation
! of the current -- particularly if the cables are laid underground.

Has an index.

* Historic Map of the Underground Railways, by F.H. Stingemore. Apparently
pub.1971 or so.

A map, not a book. This is the same idea as Rose's map, mentioned
above. Follenfant's book, as noted above, includes a slightly
later edition; as as far as I know there has not been another since.
Where Rose's map uses the usual colors for each line, this one is
monochrome and uses graphic patterns to code each section by date of
opening (e.g. solid black means lines opened before 1870).

Unlike Rose's map, it's to scale, except in the outlying areas.
Where Rose's map looks computer-printed, Stingemore's was obviously
done by hand, including the lettering. Stingemore seems less reliable
on details than Rose. By the way, Stingemore was the man who produced
the official Underground maps back in the 1920s, when they were drawn
mostly to scale.

* Mr Beck's Underground Map, by Ken Garland, pub.1994, Capital Transport,
H80cL, ISBN 1-85414-168-6.

A history of the famous Underground diagram invented by Harry Beck
c.1931 and maintained by him for about 30 years. The pre-Beck and
post-Beck eras are covered only briefly. [But these have now been
covered by two additional books in the same format. Respectively,
they a
* No Need to Ask!, by David Leboff and Tim Demuth, 1999,
Capital Transport, H80cL, ISBN 1-85414-215-1.
* Underground Maps After Beck, by Maxwell J. Roberts, 2005,
Capital Transport, H112cL, ISBN 1-85414-286-0.
]

* The Romance of Metro-land: A Further Pictorial History of the Countryside
Served by the Old Metropolitan Railway, by Dennis Edwards and Ron Pigram,
pub.1979, reprint 1986, Bloomsbury, H128mL, ISBN 1-870630-37-8.

The title is self-explanatory. Heavily illustrated. Contains some
lore that I haven't seen anywhere else.

* Art for the London Underground, by Oliver Green, pub.1990 London Transport
Museum, P144cL, ISBN 0-8478-1172-7.

A book of posters.


Finally, I must also mention:

* London's Metropolitan Railway, by Alan A. Jackson, pub.1986 David & Charles.

This is the definitive work on that constituent of the Underground
(including the modern Hammersmith & City Line), comparable to "Rails
Through the Clay", of which Jackson was co-author. I have only been
able to borrow a library copy and did not note the page count or ISBN,
but I would guess about H400mM. [It's H416pM, ISBN 0-7153-8839-8.]

If there was a comparable book covering the District [and the East
London], then combined with the two mentioned here, there would be a
decent 3-volume set covering the whole Underground. Alternatively,
this volume would be very naturally expanded to a fatter one covering
all the subsurface lines. I would love to see that project completed
by someone, one way or the other.
--
Mark Brader | "I always pass on good advice. It's the only thing
Toronto | to do with it. It is never any use to oneself."
| -- Lord Goring (Oscar Wilde: An Ideal Husband)

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Paul Thompson wrote:

Hi,

Please could someone suggest the best/most definitive book on the
underground? I'm totally new to the subject, and wanted to start with a
book that won't waste my time.

Thanks,
Paul

I'm currently reading "subterranean railway" by Christian Wolmer, aznd
I'm finding it fascinating. I'm not especially interested in trains
for what they are, but the engineering side of things, and the way the
system was built is amazing.

This book details the system from the first plans, through to modern
day (it was published in 2004).

It goes a long way to pointing out just why there are so many problems
with the network as it is.

In article , Mark Brader
writes
# * A Short History of the Bakerloo Line, by M.A.C.Horne,
# pub.1990 Douglas Rose & Nebulous Books, P56mS, ISBN 1-870354-05-2;
#
# * A Short History of the Central Line, by M.A.C.Horne,
# pub.1987 Douglas Rose & Nebulous Books, P56mS, ISBN 1-870354-01-X;
#
# * A Short History of the Northern Line, by M.A.C.Horne,
# pub.1987 Douglas Rose & Nebulous Books, P48mS, ISBN 1-870354-00-1;
#
# * A Short History of the Victoria Line, by M.A.C.Horne,
# pub.1988 Douglas Rose & Nebulous Books, P56mS, ISBN 1-870354-02-8;

Collect all 12! Actually, I don't know how many of these there are.

Of the 6 main tube lines, Mike did those four (there are newer editions)
and Desmond Croome did books on the Central and Piccadilly (the former
with a co-author).

Of the 5 sub-surface lines, there's Going Green by Piers Connor, one on
the Circle and H&C by Desmond Croome, and one on the Metropolitan by
Mike Horne.

There are no books in this series on the W&C, ELL, DLR, or Tramlink, but
there are other books on all of these (large and expensive in the case
of the W&C).

I assume the
page size is uniform.

A5.

# * Sixty Years of the Bakerloo, by Charles E.Lee,
# pub.1966 London Transport, P24p, no ISBN;
Haven't seen this. Note the page count, anyway.

Note the age as well. There are also books in the same series on the
Central, District, ELL, Metropolitan, and Northern (but, it seems, not
the Piccadilly).

# * Northern Wastes, by Jim Blake and Jonathan James,
# pub.1987 North London Transport Society, P48m, ISBN 0-3267304-0-2;
I haven't seen or heard of this. From the title I'm assuming it's
about the northern extensions to the Northern Line that were planned
and started before WW2 but never completed.

Correct.

# * The West London Joint Railways, by J.B.Atkinson,
# pub.1984 Ian Allan, H128m, ISBN 0-7110-1381-0;
I haven't seen this. It would not be directly about any part of the
Underground, though.

The Middle Circle ran over a bit of it.

# * Stepney's Own Railway, by J.E.Connor,
# pub.1987 Connor & Butler, P128m, ISBN 0-947699-08-2;
I haven't seen this. I think it's about the London & Blackwall,

Yes, which of course has the DLR now running over it.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
snip

# * Sixty Years of the Bakerloo, by Charles E.Lee,
# pub.1966 London Transport, P24p, no ISBN;
Haven't seen this. Note the page count, anyway.

Note the age as well. There are also books in the same series on the
Central, District, ELL, Metropolitan, and Northern (but, it seems, not
the Piccadilly).


Sixty Years of the Picadilly was published in 1966, according to the copy on
my bookshelf.


--
Cheers for now,

John from Harrow, Middx

remove spamnocars to reply

Mark Brader:
Collect all 12! Actually, I don't know how many of these there are.

Clive Feather:
There are no books in this series on the W&C, ELL, DLR, or Tramlink, but
there are other books on all of these (large and expensive in the case
of the W&C).

"Underground to everywhere -- smallest line, largest book"?
No, wait, I don't think I have the right. :-)

Actually, that reminds me of one. When I said Clive's list hadn't
added any general books on the Underground since the old copy I posted,
I was wrong. [His own fault for sticking pictures in there, when my
comparison was keying on the bullets before each title. :-)] There is:

Underground to Everywhere, by Stephen Halliday, 2001,
Sutton Publishing, H248mk, ISBN 0-7509-2585-X.

(k means "colour plates between some pages"). The paperback is ISBN
0-7509-3843-9, medium page size. Like Glover's, this one covers all
parts of the system, but with more attention to "people" topics than
to engineering and technical ones.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Gwyneth Paltrow always says I'm a
| shameless name dropper" -- Roger Ford

My text in this article is in the public domain.

"John Shelley" wrote
Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
snip

# * Sixty Years of the Bakerloo, by Charles E.Lee,
# pub.1966 London Transport, P24p, no ISBN;
Haven't seen this. Note the page count, anyway.

Note the age as well. There are also books in the same series on the
Central, District, ELL, Metropolitan, and Northern (but, it seems, not
the Piccadilly).


Sixty Years of the Picadilly was published in 1966, according to the copy
on
my bookshelf.

Quite so. We discussed this in December 2005 in the thread "History of
Northern Line underground 1967 FA"