Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

solar penguin wrote:
I'm starting to get a theory that some people are just
magically lucky when it comes to new hi-tech gadgets. The equipment
just always works _perfectly_ for them, while the rest of us have to
struggle with all sorts of errors and failures and crashes and bugs and
breakdowns.

Of course, the magically lucky elite have an unfair advantage over the
rest of us -- and they don't even know it. That's why they see no
problems in forcing us to use the advanced technology that works for
them, even though we would be _much_ better off sticking with older,
more reliable technology that we're comfortable with.

Oysters are just one example of this. But the problem's everywhere!

Based on my experience of living in London, commuting in London using
Oyster, and being surrounded by friends and colleagues who do the same,
the people for whom Oyster works fine nearly all the time
encompasses... err... all of them, while the people who are cursed with
errors and failures and crashes and bugs and breakdowns are... two
people on Usenet.

(the only problem I've had with Oyster was forgetting to renew my
season ticket, not touching in at Finsbury Park because you don't need
to if you have a season ticket, being stopped by inspectors while
changing trains at Green Park and PF-d £20 for using PP without
touching in. Which was more my fault than Oyster's anyway...)

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

solar penguin wrote:

Tourists? What the **** have tourists got to do with anything?

This thread was about tourists being 'ripped off' by paying full fares on London
Transport.

And now you're saying the reason that we've got to put up with it is
because it might be better for tourist scum who shouldn't even be
polluting our country with their presence in the first place!

I take it you've never left the country.

Call me a stagnant old stick-in-the-mud if you like, but I really do
believe TfL and friends should be looking after the interests of people
who actually _vote_ for them!

I think you should actually try and follow a discussion before posting.

E.

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

In article .com,
() wrote:

Since I moved from the South East, I only go to London about once a
month now, and since I got my Oyster in Feburary, every trip, bar 1
I have had a problem on.

First time, the gates weren't working at Tott Ct Rd and I got an
unresolved jrny (charged 50p too much), another time I had an odd
journey: -
"Canary Wharf - Unfinished
Unstarted - Cockfosters" - ended up being overcharged by 50p
One time, I was interchanging between NR and LU at Elephant &
Castle, and didn't realise they were 2 separate stations, so didn't
touch out when leaving NR station - paid another 50p.
My last trip. Due to Overcrowding at Bond St (IIRC), they were
exiting everyone by the Fire exit - couldn't touch out, and ended up
with a 70p charge. Later on the same day, I did a journey Westminster
- Canary Wharf, Heron Quays - Cockfosters. It got put down as
Westminster - Heron Quays, and Unstarted - Cockfosters, paid another
50p.

And the ripoff about it - trying to call their phoneline would
almost certaintly end up costing more than the 50p you've lost, so most

people (Including me) don't bother.

On the last occasion, I went to the Ticketoffice to see if he could
fix it, he seemed bemused about all of my problems, and said "That's
Oyster for you" - which sums it up nicely for me.

When I had an unresolved journey (partly my fault as I entered using the
wrong ticket) I got a full refund and a free extra credit of the same £1
50, all from the phone line. My card is unregistered.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

In article ,
uk (tim.....) wrote:

"eastender" wrote in message
...
Boltar wrote:

but people who are here just for a day or 2 and want to tour the
city will want 1 day travelcards which Osyer doesn't support.

Wrong - pre-pay Oyster caps at a cheaper rate than travelcards.

Only if one doesn't want to use NR

For now. Anyone noticed the effect of the January fare changes? I see a
Saver Return from Cambridge to Zones 1/2 is still cheaper than one to
Putney (Zone 2).

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

In article . com,
(Earl Purple) wrote:

If the tourist lands at Gatwick? I assume you can't buy Oyster
Cards at Gatwick.

Tourists are meant to be ripped off by travelling on Gatwick Express to
Victoria where they get their Oyster cards.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

Earl Purple wrote:

If the tourist lands at Gatwick? I assume you can't buy Oyster Cards at
Gatwick.

The integration of rail with tube and bus is of course important, although in other
countries I've been to the aiport train is certainly not part of the city metro. Once
you get to Victoria you can buy your Oyster.

E.

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

"tim....." wrote:

"eastender" wrote in message
...
Boltar wrote:

but people who are here just for a day or 2 and want to tour the city
will
want 1 day travelcards which Osyer doesn't support.

Wrong - pre-pay Oyster caps at a cheaper rate than travelcards.


Only if one doesn't want to use NR.

For most tourists touring central London this is not an issue.

E.

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:


If you want to throw your money away, it is of course your inalienable
right to do so.

I don't _want_ to. I ended up having to do it because it seemed like
the least worst option. How much _more_ money would I have found
myself losing if I'd stuck with that unreliable technology?

However, why didn't you go to a ticket office?

Because there's no Underground ticket office anywhere near me! But I
asked in both the local newsagents that do Oyster, and they both said
there was nothing that could be done.


I use my Oyster pretty infrequently (about 10 journeys in 2006) and it
works fine technically.

That's lasted for four times as many journeys as mine did. I'm
impressed. What's your secret?

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

I guess I'm part of that lucky elite group too! Living in London, use
my Oyster almost daily, and haven't had any problems at all. I love
that I just don't have to worry about buying tickets or queueing at all
with auto top-up on it.
I don't know of any friends that have had problems either. Are you sure
it might not just be you who's in the minority here, and are you sure
you haven't just walked through gates even though you got an error beep
or anything?

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

Paul Terry wrote:

In message .com,
Boltar writes

Sure , you can use it in prepay mode but you'll pay through the nose if
you make more than a few journeys whereas a travelcard is a one off
cost.

PAYG is capped at or below the rate of the equivalent one-day travel
card and is therefore generally the cheaper alternative.

Really? Well thats news to me when I used it once for 3 trips and
didn't have enough to make a 4th even though I'd had the equivalent
value of a travelcard on it. Bug in the system? And what about the
maximum fare being deducted if you don't swipe it? That doesn't happen
with a travelcard.

B2003

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

Boltar wrote:


Really? Well thats news to me when I used it once for 3 trips and
didn't have enough to make a 4th even though I'd had the equivalent
value of a travelcard on it. Bug in the system? And what about the
maximum fare being deducted if you don't swipe it? That doesn't happen
with a travelcard.

B2003

Maybe that's where you went wrong, because you do have to keep touching
in and out, and the penalty fare that you pay for not touching in/out
does not count towards the daily cap.

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

"eastender" wrote in message
...
"tim....." wrote:

"eastender" wrote in message
...
Boltar wrote:

but people who are here just for a day or 2 and want to tour the city
will
want 1 day travelcards which Osyer doesn't support.

Wrong - pre-pay Oyster caps at a cheaper rate than travelcards.


Only if one doesn't want to use NR.

For most tourists touring central London this is not an issue.

Hmm,

Greenwich
Richmond (& Ham House)
Hampton Court
Crystal Palace
Hampstead Heath

tim

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

Really? Well thats news to me when I used it once for 3 trips and
didn't have enough to make a 4th even though I'd had the equivalent
value of a travelcard on it. Bug in the system?

When was "once"? The cap was introduced on 27 Feb 2005.

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 21:00:42 -0000, "tim....."
wrote:


"eastender" wrote in message
...
"tim....." wrote:

"eastender" wrote in message
...
Boltar wrote:

but people who are here just for a day or 2 and want to tour the city
will
want 1 day travelcards which Osyer doesn't support.

Wrong - pre-pay Oyster caps at a cheaper rate than travelcards.


Only if one doesn't want to use NR.

For most tourists touring central London this is not an issue.

Hmm,

Greenwich
Richmond (& Ham House)
Hampton Court
Crystal Palace
Hampstead Heath

Hampton Court is probably the only significant tourist attraction of
the latter four. Greenwich is accessible by DLR.

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:18:05 -0000, tim..... wrote:

The cash on an Oyster card doesn't expire, strip cards usually
do (I've no idea about the dutch ones).

Oyster cards expire if you don't use them for 2 years.

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

"James Farrar" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 21:00:42 -0000, "tim....."
wrote:


"eastender" wrote in message
...
"tim....." wrote:

"eastender" wrote in message
...
Boltar wrote:

but people who are here just for a day or 2 and want to tour the
city
will
want 1 day travelcards which Osyer doesn't support.

Wrong - pre-pay Oyster caps at a cheaper rate than travelcards.


Only if one doesn't want to use NR.

For most tourists touring central London this is not an issue.

Hmm,

Greenwich
Richmond (& Ham House)
Hampton Court
Crystal Palace
Hampstead Heath

Hampton Court is probably the only significant tourist attraction of
the latter four. Greenwich is accessible by DLR.

But is the punter going to know that. They'll look at the map, see
that NR is much quicker and go that way. And then they will find
out that their ticket isn't valid

tim

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

In article , james.s
(James Farrar) wrote:

For most tourists touring central London this is not an issue.

Hmm,

Greenwich
Richmond (& Ham House)
Hampton Court
Crystal Palace
Hampstead Heath

Hampton Court is probably the only significant tourist attraction of
the latter four. Greenwich is accessible by DLR.

When will Oyster capping come in for Hampton Court anyway?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

"asdf" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:18:05 -0000, tim..... wrote:

The cash on an Oyster card doesn't expire, strip cards usually
do (I've no idea about the dutch ones).

Oyster cards expire if you don't use them for 2 years.

I was going to say, no they don't.

But it seems that the go dormant.

What a piece of ****.

I better get a refund on mine before it dies.

tim

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

In message , tim.....
writes

"eastender" wrote in message
...
"tim....." wrote:

"eastender" wrote in message
...
Boltar wrote:

but people who are here just for a day or 2 and want to tour the city
will
want 1 day travelcards which Osyer doesn't support.

Wrong - pre-pay Oyster caps at a cheaper rate than travelcards.


Only if one doesn't want to use NR.

For most tourists touring central London this is not an issue.

Hmm,
Actually, very few tourists use NR services (which they usually refer to
as "Overground" in my experience.

Greenwich
Most go either by boat or by DLR. Both take them nearer most points of
interest than the NR services.

Richmond (& Ham House)
District Line usually.

Hampton Court
Yes, that one is a "biggie" for Overground. Probably the biggest buy
far I'd say.

Crystal Palace
Few go there.

Hampstead Heath
People usually end up taking the tube to Hampstead. Not especially
convenient but as with Richmond, that's where they see the relevant word
on the Tube Map!

The other NR-only destinations that spring to mind for me are Eltham
Palace and Syon Park. But the non tube services are usually a
challenge to all but the most adventurous!
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

In message , tim.....
writes
Hampton Court is probably the only significant tourist attraction of
the latter four. Greenwich is accessible by DLR.

But is the punter going to know that. They'll look at the map, see
that NR is much quicker and go that way. And then they will find out
that their ticket isn't valid

Actually what happens is that they see loads of publicity for boat trips
and go that way or else they look at the Tube Map and find access *only*
via the Jubilee and DLR.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article , james.s
(James Farrar) wrote:

For most tourists touring central London this is not an issue.

Hmm,

Greenwich
Richmond (& Ham House)
Hampton Court
Crystal Palace
Hampstead Heath

Hampton Court is probably the only significant tourist attraction of
the latter four. Greenwich is accessible by DLR.

When will Oyster capping come in for Hampton Court anyway?

One would hope that when SWT introduce Oyster fares it
will be possible to touch-in/out at the obvious stations over
the border.

Not to do so would be stupid IMHO

tim

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

They do not, but you will have to reactivate them if you do not use one
for 2 years.

"The money on your Oyster card never expires - it stays there until you
use it.
However, if your card is not used for 2 years, you will have to
reactivate it or
claim back any unused cash by calling the Oyster helpline on 0845 330
9876. "

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...user-guide.pdf

asdf wrote:

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:18:05 -0000, tim..... wrote:

The cash on an Oyster card doesn't expire, strip cards usually
do (I've no idea about the dutch ones).

Oyster cards expire if you don't use them for 2 years.

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

In article ,
uk (tim.....) wrote:

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article , james.s
(James Farrar) wrote:

For most tourists touring central London this is not an issue.

Hmm,

Greenwich
Richmond (& Ham House)
Hampton Court
Crystal Palace
Hampstead Heath

Hampton Court is probably the only significant tourist
attraction of the latter four. Greenwich is accessible by DLR.

When will Oyster capping come in for Hampton Court anyway?

One would hope that when SWT introduce Oyster fares it
will be possible to touch-in/out at the obvious stations over
the border.

Not to do so would be stupid IMHO

Indeed but I was assuming that Hampton Court station would continue to be
treated as if it was in Greater London as it has been for other purposes
for some time.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

Ian Jelf wrote:
In message , tim.....
writes
Hampton Court is probably the only significant tourist attraction of
the latter four. Greenwich is accessible by DLR.

But is the punter going to know that. They'll look at the map, see
that NR is much quicker and go that way. And then they will find out
that their ticket isn't valid

Actually what happens is that they see loads of publicity for boat trips
and go that way or else they look at the Tube Map and find access *only*
via the Jubilee and DLR.

Actually, I've lived in London ten years and last year when I was in
Charing Cross and needed to go to Greenwich, I used the tube/DLR (and
yes it took ages), without even thinking of taking the train as being an
option.

I wouldn't make that mistake again, mind you.

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

sweek wrote:

I guess I'm part of that lucky elite group too! Living in London, use
my Oyster almost daily, and haven't had any problems at all. I love
that I just don't have to worry about buying tickets or queueing at all
with auto top-up on it.
I don't know of any friends that have had problems either. Are you sure
it might not just be you who's in the minority here,

It could be. I have a very bad track record with ANY technology from
after the early-to-mid-nineties. Anything more modern modern that can
crash, fail, or break down usually will when I start using it! I can't
be in the minority _every_ time that happens!

and are you sure
you haven't just walked through gates even though you got an error beep
or anything?

What gates? I only ever used it on buses. And I don't travel on them
very often, which is why I'd hardly used it.

Anyway, one day it just stopped working. It didn't respond at all to
the readers on the buses. It didn't even respond to the reader in the
newsagent when I took it back to complain. I couldn't prove there
should still be five quid on there, because the readers wouldn't even
acknowledge there was a card there, never mind how much money was on
it. And I couldn't even get a refund on my deposit, because the
newsagent claimed the damage must've been my fault!

Now maybe you're saying there's something special and different about
the readers on gates that lets them read faulty cards that other
readers can't even detect. No-one told me anything about that at the
time!

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

sweek wrote:

They do not, but you will have to reactivate them if you do not use one
for 2 years.

"The money on your Oyster card never expires - it stays there until you
use it.
However, if your card is not used for 2 years, you will have to
reactivate it or
claim back any unused cash by calling the Oyster helpline on 0845 330
9876. "

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...user-guide.pdf


Maybe that's what went wrong with mine? Maybe it just went dormant
before its time? I'd only used it two or three times in those two
years, and maybe that wasn't enough to keep it active?

Fare rises , legalised extortion?
 

On 29 Dec 2006 07:21:29 -0800,
John B wrote:

Based on my experience of living in London, commuting in London using
Oyster, and being surrounded by friends and colleagues who do the same,
the people for whom Oyster works fine nearly all the time
encompasses... err... all of them, while the people who are cursed with
errors and failures and crashes and bugs and breakdowns are... two
people on Usenet.

(the only problem I've had with Oyster was forgetting to renew my
season ticket, not touching in at Finsbury Park because you don't need
to if you have a season ticket, being stopped by inspectors while
changing trains at Green Park and PF-d £20 for using PP without
touching in. Which was more my fault than Oyster's anyway...)

I work in London and have a prepay Oyster but almost never use it (about
40GBP/year in total which is why I no longer bother with Z1-6 on my Gold
Card) - and when I do use it it's typically 3 journeys in one day so I'm
using it less than once per month.

The problem is that when you use it so infrequently you don't realise it
hasn't worked properly. I've (only) had two problems - one at Leicester
Square where the barriers were open and my card obviously didn't
register when I badged in - I now know to watch for the green light to
come on - but I had no idea at all that there had been a problem until a
couple of months later when I went to top up and saw that there was an
unresolved journey.

The second problem was at Euston where again my card obviously didn't
register properly - the barrier definitely beeped and the green light
was on but the barrier slammed on me (it hurts). Clearly the person
behind me didn't realise I'd done it wrong either because they'd already
put their ticket into the barrier so then I was trapped between the
closed barrier saying "take ticket" and the person trying to get out.
(I then had to queue for the ticket office to find out whether I had an
unresolved journey - I didn't. I could, in theory have used one of the
machines but, of course, they weren't working properly either)

The only problems I've ever had with paper tickets (on NR or the tube)
is, a) my gold card fades and needs reprinting after about 6 months as
it's unreadable although it still works fine in the barriers, and b)
when travelling on a single ticket, usually they are swallowed by the
barrier but occasionally you have to take the ticket and I usually spend
an extra 5 seconds working out what has gone wrong before I see the
ticket and the gate opens.

I'm tempted to go back to an all zones travel card. I'll see how oyster
works this year and then, if I'm still seeing occasional problems I'll
probably go back to travelcard. OK, it will cost me about another
250GBP/year but the knowledge that I definitely won't have to queue for
ten minutes to work out what has gone wrong is worth far more to me.

(Actually I'd like to see the ability to buy paper tickets using oyster
- I don't care about the cap and usually when I am travelling I'm with
other people so the ability to go up to a machine, press Z1 single and
then badge my oyster and get a paper ticket would be ideal particularly
as I can then buy tickets for others as well.)

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/