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The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 16:17:57 -0600, David Lynch wrote:
The platform descriptors at Edgware Road should be interesting. "Edgware Road via Aldgate," "Teacup Line via King's Cross" "Hammersmith via Aldgate" Probably just "Aldgate". |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
fOn 3 Jan 2007 03:14:00 -0800, "PhilD" wrote:
Boltar wrote: Tom Anderson wrote: "Metropolitan trains would run through from Liverpool Street to Barking, Amersham to Barking is a heck of a long way. Could this be a contender for the longest non stop journey on the tube or is Epping to West Ruislip still further? Just done a quick calculation. I make the distances: 54.69km Epping - West Ruislip 56.76km Amersham - Barking So the Met line would end up longer (and longer still if trains ran through to Chesham). What about Cockfosters to Cockfosters via the Heathrow loop? -- Bill Hayles http://billnot.com |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
Bill Hayles wrote:
fOn 3 Jan 2007 03:14:00 -0800, "PhilD" wrote: Boltar wrote: Tom Anderson wrote: "Metropolitan trains would run through from Liverpool Street to Barking, Amersham to Barking is a heck of a long way. Could this be a contender for the longest non stop journey on the tube or is Epping to West Ruislip still further? Just done a quick calculation. I make the distances: 54.69km Epping - West Ruislip 56.76km Amersham - Barking So the Met line would end up longer (and longer still if trains ran through to Chesham). What about Cockfosters to Cockfosters via the Heathrow loop? What about Hammersmith to Barking? There used to be a Circle Line train, no. 201, that started from Hammersmith (H&C) at about 04:49, went 20 times round the circle and finished up at Barking at 00:58. Total distance about 440 km (273 miles) in continuous public service with no reversing. Can someone with the current WTTs check whether it still runs? -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
asdf wrote:
Personally I dont see why the Met line has to run to Barking? Because at the moment, the Met trains empty out in one direction and fill up in the other. It's better to have them filling up with new people as the old ones get out. And by swapping the eastern destinations of the Met and H&C, exactly the same thing happens with the H&C... Except Met trains are far fuller when they reach Baker Street than H&C trains are when they reach Paddington... -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
John B wrote: Except Met trains are far fuller when they reach Baker Street than H&C trains are when they reach Paddington... -- But generally empty once you go past Baker Street. The Met's usually not that crowded. |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, asdf wrote:
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 18:17:23 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote: Having said that, I'd hazard a guess that the Hammersmith-Aldgate service won't run off-peak (otherwise why send the Met to Barking?), Hang on, what? What do you mean by the 'Hammersmith-Aldgate service'? I refer you to your previous post: "Metropolitan trains would run through from Liverpool Street to Barking, and the Hammersmith & City service would run partially to Aldgate..." Okay, somehow i'd missed the 'partially' - i'd been thinking every train coming from Hammersmith would be a teacupper. Thinking about it a bit more, unless I'm missing something, the suggested service pattern seems to be hopelessly inefficient in terms of movements across Praed Street Junction. ISTR we discussed this here a few years ago, and came to much the same conclusion. tom -- Batman always wins |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
The last Barking Train (ex Edgware Road) is indeed an Outer Rail
Circle. Haven't got a Timetable with me at the minute but I think 4 or 5 Circles stable at Barking in the Evening and there are 3 Start-Ups. These run advertised as Circles until their last arrival at either Glos Rd or Edg Rd on the Outer Rail or Glos Rd/ Tower Hill on the Inner Rail. It is common for the Train to display the correct destination and the Dot Matrix to have the wrong destination. This is either because the DMI can' t show the data or the signalling system can't input it (like Edgware Road to Glos Rd Inner Rail) Richard J. wrote: Bill Hayles wrote: fOn 3 Jan 2007 03:14:00 -0800, "PhilD" wrote: Boltar wrote: Tom Anderson wrote: "Metropolitan trains would run through from Liverpool Street to Barking, Amersham to Barking is a heck of a long way. Could this be a contender for the longest non stop journey on the tube or is Epping to West Ruislip still further? Just done a quick calculation. I make the distances: 54.69km Epping - West Ruislip 56.76km Amersham - Barking So the Met line would end up longer (and longer still if trains ran through to Chesham). What about Cockfosters to Cockfosters via the Heathrow loop? What about Hammersmith to Barking? There used to be a Circle Line train, no. 201, that started from Hammersmith (H&C) at about 04:49, went 20 times round the circle and finished up at Barking at 00:58. Total distance about 440 km (273 miles) in continuous public service with no reversing. Can someone with the current WTTs check whether it still runs? -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
In message . com,
chunky munky writes Don't forget that the entire Sub-Surface Railway will be very very different in 10-15 years tim to what it currently is, including the District running to Uxbridge instead of the Piccadilly This is a rumour that surfaces from time to time (usually when one of those Green railways types takes a wrong stick at Hanger Lane) which has no factual substance. The fact that some of the platforms down the Rayners Branch have been recently rebuilt to tube gauge stock suggests that TPTB have no plans to do this. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
In message , asdf
writes On 3 Jan 2007 14:02:26 -0800, chunky munky wrote: There are a number of reasons why the District will end up at Uxbridge eventually (with the Picc going to Ealing Bdway?). - The Piccadilly will benefit from the additional rolling stock, when Terminal 5 opens. There is no new stock for many years yet. So, just how many extra trains do you consider that T5 will need? 2 at the most, I would say! Some 1967 stock will become available soon. Some is going to the Bakerloo (for the Watford Junction extension), but I'm sure there'd be enough left for the Picc. There's also the 1983 stock still around that was supposed to be refurbished for use on the Picc. Most of it has disappeared now (the Uxbridge and Cockfosters stuff went a couple of months ago and the South Harrow is imminent) - The platform to train heights will be "level/ step free" between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge. As set out in the PPP Contract Curtail the Picc to Rayners Lane, with new platforms where the goods yard is now? Always thought that would be a good idea with the RLN refurbishment, then just peak stuff to RUI/UXB to maintain the headway on the branch at peak times. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
In message , asdf
writes Build a west-to-north curve so that trains can run through from Ealing Broadway to North Ealing. District trains to Uxbridge would run Central London - Ealing Common - Ealing Broadway (reverse) - North Ealing - Uxbridge. A reversal en route wouldn't be a problem as there'd be no need for the driver to change ends. I imagine BT might have something to say about that - they have a depot right where the line would go. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
Tom Anderson:
'Bakerloo' makes me cringe every time i hear it. Clive Feather: It made Der Manejment cringe for years before they decided to live with it. Well, no. At least, "Rails Through the Clay" (2nd edition) says otherwise: # The clumsy statutory titles of the three lines were, [of] course, # too much for the man in the street. A writer in the Evening News # (G.H.F. Nichols, or 'Quex') coined the tag Bakerloo for the Baker # Street & Waterloo, a name used by the paper from 7th March 1906¹ # and quickly accepted by the company, which adopted it officially # from July. This move staggered the prim anti-American editor of # The Railway Magazine: 'for a railway itself to adopt its gutter # title, is not what we expect from a railway company. English # railway officers have more dignity than to act in this [manner].' # Mr Nokes was spared further nicknames: the other two lines simply # became known as the Piccadilly² Tube and the Hampstead³ Tube, # titles which were officially promulgated and stuck well enough. # A competition was held by the Evening News to find a short title # for the Piccadilly tube, but none of the rather awkward suggestions # proved acceptable to the company. [] indicates places where I have corrected typos in the passage. ¹ 3 days before the line opened. The Piccadilly's opening followed in December of the same year, so the competition was presumably held in the intervening months; the Hampstead opened in June of 1907. ² Great Northern, Piccadilly & Brompton Railway. ³ Charing Cross, Euston & Hampstead Railway. The name Northern Line was first used in 1937. -- Mark Brader "I wasn't the one who misplaced the entire Toronto Deltivid asteroid belt!" "Deja Q", ST:TNG, Richard Danus My text in this article is in the public domain. |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
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The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
On Sat, 6 Jan 2007, Mark Brader wrote:
Tom Anderson: 'Bakerloo' makes me cringe every time i hear it. Clive Feather: It made Der Manejment cringe for years before they decided to live with it. Well, no. At least, "Rails Through the Clay" (2nd edition) says otherwise: But nothing that says there was no cringeing in the ranks in the years after the decision! tom -- made up languages, delusions, skin diseases and unaided human flight |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
Tom Anderson wrote:
On Sat, 6 Jan 2007, Mark Brader wrote: Tom Anderson: 'Bakerloo' makes me cringe every time i hear it. Clive Feather: It made Der Manejment cringe for years before they decided to live with it. Well, no. At least, "Rails Through the Clay" (2nd edition) says otherwise: But nothing that says there was no cringeing in the ranks in the years after the decision! Officers' mess surely, not "in the ranks"! -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
C wrote:
"John Rowland" wrote in message ... C wrote: Personally I dont see why the Met line has to run to Barking? Because at the moment, the Met trains empty out in one direction and fill up in the other. It's better to have them filling up with new people as the old ones get out. Dont all lines do that? No - witness any line at Oxford Circus, where a mob get off a train to be replaced by a mob getting on. Imagine if the Central line didn't go west of Marble Arch - the trains would get emptier and emptier as they approached Marble Arch from the east, whereas there is currently a turnover of people which keeps them efficiently used at least as far as White City. -- Dave Arquati www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, C wrote: "Fig" wrote in message news:op.tljmp5qam4iaeb@dell... In another thread, Dave Arquanti commented that "The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines will make using Paddington much easier" Could anyone expand on this please? A brief google has returned nothing. Yeah what does Dave mean? Before questioning The Dave, check your scriptu http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/39 Which sayeth: "2011 - New service pattern "The peak hour service is currently 28tph on most of the subsurface network in Zone 1 and is due to be increased to 30tph, to be achieved by restructuring the service - in particular the Circle line. "Metropolitan trains would run through from Liverpool Street to Barking, and the Hammersmith & City service would run partially to Aldgate, and partially all the way around the Circle terminating at Edgware Road - i.e. Hammersmith - Edgware Road - Aldgate - Victoria - Edgware Road and reverse. "This is meant to give a period of recovery time which the Circle line currently lacks. Detailed information is available at Tubeprune's site and District Dave's site. "Works will be undertaken on the Hammersmith & City line station at Paddington to relieve overcrowding." Note that because of the new shape of the H&C (which, AIUI, entirely replaces the current Circle service), at Paddington, no trains on the Circle/District platform will go beyond Edgware Road, so should that way lie your destination, your only option is to go to the H&C platform, which is easier than the choice you face at present. tom To add some clarification on service frequencies to this, I believe the idea is to double the frequency of Hammersmith departures. The current frequency on each of the H&C, Circle and Wimbleware services is 8tph (every 7.5 mins). The "teacup" plan would (theoretically) involve 16tph departing from Hammersmith, resulting in a doubling of service on the Hammersmith-Paddington section, giving a much improved service to the White City shopping centre which will push up demand on the line (via the new station at Wood Lane). It will also provide big benefits at Paddington, where interchange passengers from National Rail can head to the Bishop's Bridge (current H&C) station for 16tph (direct) to the east, an improvement over the current situation with direct trains split equally between those platforms and the Praed Street (Circle line) platforms. Additionally, the extensive development in the Paddington Basin is closer to the Bishop's Bridge platforms and will benefit from a better service to them. However, the obvious problem is that 16 circular services do not fit along either the southern Circle or into the terminating platforms at Edgware Road - so it seems likely that 8tph will halt at Aldgate and reverse, with the other 8tph continuing round to Edgware Road via Victoria and back, just as the current Circle service. Unfortunately, it means a bit of a raw deal for journeys on the western part of the Circle, as there will be no frequency increase and a break in journeys passing through Edgware Road - but hopefully with the prize of improved reliability. Other people may know more than I do, so please step in to correct if necessary! -- Dave Arquati www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
asdf wrote: Some 1967 stock will become available soon. Some is going to the Bakerloo (for the Watford Junction extension), but I'm sure there'd be enough left for the Picc. I doubt having some knackered 67 stock on the picc would go down too well with the average picc commuter. Besidesd , wouldn't they need a lot of work to be compatable such as putting back tripcocks , new train radios etc? There's also the 1983 stock still around that was supposed to be refurbished for use on the Picc. That all went for scrap long ago didn't it? Are are them some still hanging around the system? B2003 |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
In article , Mark Brader
writes Tom Anderson: 'Bakerloo' makes me cringe every time i hear it. Clive Feather: It made Der Manejment cringe for years before they decided to live with it. Well, no. At least, "Rails Through the Clay" (2nd edition) says otherwise: [...] You're right. Memory fault on my part; sorry. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
asdf wrote:
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 14:16:03 -0000, John Rowland wrote: Personally I dont see why the Met line has to run to Barking? Because at the moment, the Met trains empty out in one direction and fill up in the other. It's better to have them filling up with new people as the old ones get out. And by swapping the eastern destinations of the Met and H&C, exactly the same thing happens with the H&C... But the Met east of Baker Street has 120 carriages per peak hour, whereas the H&C has something like 48 carriages per peak hour. |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
On Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:07:54 -0000, John Rowland wrote:
Personally I dont see why the Met line has to run to Barking? Because at the moment, the Met trains empty out in one direction and fill up in the other. It's better to have them filling up with new people as the old ones get out. And by swapping the eastern destinations of the Met and H&C, exactly the same thing happens with the H&C... But the Met east of Baker Street has 120 carriages per peak hour, whereas the H&C has something like 48 carriages per peak hour. But if 15 Met tph are to head through Aldgate East, some Districts will have to be cut back to Tower Hill (and/or Mansion House) to make room, which just shifts the same situation onto those Districts. |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
On Tue, 9 Jan 2007, asdf wrote:
On Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:07:54 -0000, John Rowland wrote: Personally I dont see why the Met line has to run to Barking? Because at the moment, the Met trains empty out in one direction and fill up in the other. It's better to have them filling up with new people as the old ones get out. And by swapping the eastern destinations of the Met and H&C, exactly the same thing happens with the H&C... But the Met east of Baker Street has 120 carriages per peak hour, whereas the H&C has something like 48 carriages per peak hour. But if 15 Met tph are to head through Aldgate East, some Districts will have to be cut back to Tower Hill (and/or Mansion House) to make room, which just shifts the same situation onto those Districts. No, because the Mets replace H&Cs. tom -- Children are born true scientists. -- R. Buckminster Fuller |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 9 Jan 2007, asdf wrote: On Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:07:54 -0000, John Rowland wrote: Personally I dont see why the Met line has to run to Barking? Because at the moment, the Met trains empty out in one direction and fill up in the other. It's better to have them filling up with new people as the old ones get out. And by swapping the eastern destinations of the Met and H&C, exactly the same thing happens with the H&C... But the Met east of Baker Street has 120 carriages per peak hour, whereas the H&C has something like 48 carriages per peak hour. But if 15 Met tph are to head through Aldgate East, some Districts will have to be cut back to Tower Hill (and/or Mansion House) to make room, which just shifts the same situation onto those Districts. No, because the Mets replace H&Cs. asdf has a point - the current H&C service is only 8tph. If all 15tph Met go to Barking, then 7tph will have to be removed from the District service - I imagine that demand for services along the southern Circle is higher than for the northern Circle. Perhaps 7tph from the Met will terminate at Aldgate alongside 8tph from the new H&Circle service. Trying to get my head around this service pattern is as difficult as the multitude of proposals for the North London Railway. -- Dave Arquati www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007, Dave A wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote: On Tue, 9 Jan 2007, asdf wrote: On Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:07:54 -0000, John Rowland wrote: Personally I dont see why the Met line has to run to Barking? Because at the moment, the Met trains empty out in one direction and fill up in the other. It's better to have them filling up with new people as the old ones get out. And by swapping the eastern destinations of the Met and H&C, exactly the same thing happens with the H&C... But the Met east of Baker Street has 120 carriages per peak hour, whereas the H&C has something like 48 carriages per peak hour. But if 15 Met tph are to head through Aldgate East, some Districts will have to be cut back to Tower Hill (and/or Mansion House) to make room, which just shifts the same situation onto those Districts. No, because the Mets replace H&Cs. asdf has a point - the current H&C service is only 8tph. If all 15tph Met go to Barking, then 7tph will have to be removed from the District service Allowing another 7tph of Hammersmith trains to be Teacups rather than Aldgates - by jove, Holmes, we've cracked it! Assuming they reverse somewhere like HSK or Edgware Road, rather than Tower Hill, of course. - I imagine that demand for services along the southern Circle is higher than for the northern Circle. Ah, but between where? If the demand is along the actual circle bit (Charing Cross to the City, say), then heavily pruning some Districts back to a western point and replacing them with Teacups would be fine; if the demand is actually from the western District suburbs to the south side of the circle, it wouldn't, and the admittedly far more sensible idea of reversing some Districts at Tower Hill would come into play. The only case where you need to preserve the full District service beyond Tower Hill is if there's much more demand for trips from the eastern end of the District/H&C to the south circle than the north. Hmm. I think i'm in knip there. Anyway, yes, there you, all fun and games until someone loses a peak-time through train. Perhaps 7tph from the Met will terminate at Aldgate alongside 8tph from the new H&Circle service. Well, or that. So now we have both the Met and the H&C having half Aldgate and half through trains. What fraction of District trains reverse at Tower Hill rather than running through? ISTR it's actually quite a lot. Trying to get my head around this service pattern is as difficult as the multitude of proposals for the North London Railway. I had a look at the service patterns on the railway south of the river the other day. *shudders* tom -- Curse me, God, for making you this way! |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
"Dave A" wrote in message ... Tom Anderson wrote: On Tue, 9 Jan 2007, asdf wrote: No, because the Mets replace H&Cs. asdf has a point - the current H&C service is only 8tph. If all 15tph Met go to Barking, then 7tph will have to be removed from the District service - I imagine that demand for services along the southern Circle is higher than for the northern Circle. Surely, though, the situation with the Met will be much as now (unless i've missed something).... the off-peak timetable only has the Uxbridge services running through to Aldgate, so presumably those (every 10 mins ?) would be the ones going to the H&C route to Barking, whilst the Watford & Amersham services will continue to run only as far as Baker Street. |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
Tom Anderson wrote:
What fraction of District trains reverse at Tower Hill rather than running through? ISTR it's actually quite a lot. In the daytime off-peak, it's basically the Ealing Broadway trains that reverse at Tower Hill, while the Richmonds and Wimbledons go to Upminster. So the answer is about a third, or about a quarter of all eastbound traffic if you include the Circle. In the peaks, it may well be different. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
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The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article , (Richard J.) wrote: Tom Anderson wrote: What fraction of District trains reverse at Tower Hill rather than running through? ISTR it's actually quite a lot. In the daytime off-peak, it's basically the Ealing Broadway trains that reverse at Tower Hill, while the Richmonds and Wimbledons go to Upminster. So the answer is about a third, or about a quarter of all eastbound traffic if you include the Circle. In the peaks, it may well be different. Are there no Dagenham terminators any more? I've seen then in the evening peak, but not off-peak. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 00:40 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: Dagenham terminators Digressing, I know, but that sounds quite ominous... :) |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
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The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, James Farrar wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 00:40 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: Dagenham terminators Digressing, I know, but that sounds quite ominous... :) 'ASTA LA VISTA, GUV'NOR. tom -- I'd get more sense out of a crossed line with the Krankies |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
Matt Wheeler wrote:
"Dave A" wrote in message ... Tom Anderson wrote: On Tue, 9 Jan 2007, asdf wrote: No, because the Mets replace H&Cs. asdf has a point - the current H&C service is only 8tph. If all 15tph Met go to Barking, then 7tph will have to be removed from the District service - I imagine that demand for services along the southern Circle is higher than for the northern Circle. Surely, though, the situation with the Met will be much as now (unless i've missed something).... the off-peak timetable only has the Uxbridge services running through to Aldgate, so presumably those (every 10 mins ?) would be the ones going to the H&C route to Barking, whilst the Watford & Amersham services will continue to run only as far as Baker Street. That may be so, but the off-peak service pattern isn't the problem, it's the peak one (although H&C and Circle services are pretty invariable throughout the day). -- Dave Arquati www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
Tom Anderson wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007, Dave A wrote: Tom Anderson wrote: On Tue, 9 Jan 2007, asdf wrote: On Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:07:54 -0000, John Rowland wrote: Personally I dont see why the Met line has to run to Barking? Because at the moment, the Met trains empty out in one direction and fill up in the other. It's better to have them filling up with new people as the old ones get out. And by swapping the eastern destinations of the Met and H&C, exactly the same thing happens with the H&C... But the Met east of Baker Street has 120 carriages per peak hour, whereas the H&C has something like 48 carriages per peak hour. But if 15 Met tph are to head through Aldgate East, some Districts will have to be cut back to Tower Hill (and/or Mansion House) to make room, which just shifts the same situation onto those Districts. No, because the Mets replace H&Cs. asdf has a point - the current H&C service is only 8tph. If all 15tph Met go to Barking, then 7tph will have to be removed from the District service Allowing another 7tph of Hammersmith trains to be Teacups rather than Aldgates - by jove, Holmes, we've cracked it! Assuming they reverse somewhere like HSK or Edgware Road, rather than Tower Hill, of course. - I imagine that demand for services along the southern Circle is higher than for the northern Circle. Ah, but between where? If the demand is along the actual circle bit (Charing Cross to the City, say), then heavily pruning some Districts back to a western point and replacing them with Teacups would be fine; if the demand is actually from the western District suburbs to the south side of the circle, it wouldn't, and the admittedly far more sensible idea of reversing some Districts at Tower Hill would come into play. The only case where you need to preserve the full District service beyond Tower Hill is if there's much more demand for trips from the eastern end of the District/H&C to the south circle than the north. Hmm. I think i'm in knip there. Anyway, yes, there you, all fun and games until someone loses a peak-time through train. OK, here's some data to chew on - Figure 4C.2 of the Mayor's Transport Strategy is a particularly useful diagram showing Underground crowding levels for 2001, with the following figure showing predictions for 2011 - so imagine something between the two. The width of the lines is the magnitude of demand, and the colour is the crowding level. (You need good zoom or good eyesight to check that you're looking at the correct direction of travel.) 2001 shows a higher and crowded passenger flow from Aldgate East to Tower Hill, and a much lower (but still crowded) flow from Aldgate East to Liverpool Street. 2011 prediction (albeit this is meant to be without the Transport Strategy) shows crowding again to Tower Hill and a still low but "very crowded" service (i.e. crammed) from Aldgate East to Liverpool Street. Demand from the western branches into Victoria and the City is very high and very overcrowded, compared to that from the east. The difference in the magnitude of demand in the east suggests that the Tower Hill service should be much more frequent than the Liverpool Street service (perhaps doubly so), which I think is about the shape of things at the moment. It's also worth bearing in mind that a reduced-frequency east-District/southern-Circle service may push people onto the very-high-frequency Central line at Mile End to get to Bank or St Paul's (whereas they would have stayed on to Monument, Cannon St or Mansion House), and the Central line already suffers worse overcrowding than either the District or the H&C in this area. To me this suggests that the District frequency to/from the east should be maintained, as the balance is quite delicate. Perhaps 7tph from the Met will terminate at Aldgate alongside 8tph from the new H&Circle service. Well, or that. So now we have both the Met and the H&C having half Aldgate and half through trains. What fraction of District trains reverse at Tower Hill rather than running through? ISTR it's actually quite a lot. As Clive mentions, it's about a third of the District service (Ealing Broadways). Trying to get my head around this service pattern is as difficult as the multitude of proposals for the North London Railway. I had a look at the service patterns on the railway south of the river the other day. *shudders* Indeed. However, whilst the downside is that they're complicated, the upside is that they end up matching demand more closely than simpler Underground all-or-nothing service patterns. They do also relieve some stress from the Underground by offering a choice of termini... -- Dave Arquati www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
The new service pattern on the Circle and H&C lines
An improved service from the north side of the circle down to Barking
would have a great effect on the central, plenty of people (myself included) could take either into the city, but opt for the central (which involves changing) on the basis of reliability, frequency and speed. With a decent frequency and spanking new ACed up S Stock I know I'd prefer that to standing with my head at a 45 degree angle squashed up against the doors in 40 degrees on the central. T-cup seems to make a lot of sence, the paddington stations improvements would also be well recieved, I do Paddington - Bow Road a fair bit, and will normally take bakerloo, central and district rather than gamble on the cooperation of the H&C. Thought the unified aldgate interchange is interesting (I do this on foot a fair bit, one of the great irritations of oyster is that it would not let me do this without paying for the privalage of walking), If that could be done it would be a very usefull addition for people living/working on the district. |
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