On Wed, 3 Jan 2007, asdf wrote:

On Tue, 2 Jan 2007 22:44:12 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote:

Note that because of the new shape of the H&C (which, AIUI, entirely
replaces the current Circle service), at Paddington, no trains on the
Circle/District platform will go beyond Edgware Road, so should that
way lie your destination, your only option is to go to the H&C
platform, which is easier than the choice you face at present.

Also, the frequency of trains from the H&C platforms to Liverpool Street
will be increased (doubled?). If that didn't happen (i.e. the only
change was that trains from the Circle platforms terminated at Edgware
Road) then it wouldn't be much of an improvement

Well, quite!

- although, as you say, the choice would be easier. ;-)

Yes - take the flipping Bakerloo.

Random PS - why didn't the Bakerloo get called the Regent Line, since it
runs via Regent's Park and Regent Street? That would be a much better
name. 'Bakerloo' makes me cringe every time i hear it.

Having said that, I'd hazard a guess that the Hammersmith-Aldgate
service won't run off-peak (otherwise why send the Met to Barking?),

Hang on, what? What do you mean by the 'Hammersmith-Aldgate service'? Why
won't it run off-peak? How is this related to the Met?

tom

--
If the truth can be told so as to be understood, it will be believed.

In article , Tom
Anderson writes
Random PS - why didn't the Bakerloo get called the Regent Line, since
it runs via Regent's Park and Regent Street?

Because it was the Baker Street and Waterloo Railway.

And it's brown on the maps because the Baker Street and Waterloo bus
company had a brown livery.

'Bakerloo' makes me cringe every time i hear it.

It made Der Manejment cringe for years before they decided to live with
it.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
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On Wed, 3 Jan 2007, Clive D. W. Feather wrote:

In article , Tom Anderson
writes

Random PS - why didn't the Bakerloo get called the Regent Line, since it
runs via Regent's Park and Regent Street?

Because it was the Baker Street and Waterloo Railway.

And it's brown on the maps because the Baker Street and Waterloo bus company
had a brown livery.

As Harry Hill put it, got to have a system.

'Bakerloo' makes me cringe every time i hear it.

It made Der Manejment cringe for years before they decided to live with it.

I look forward to making a similar whine about Crossrail.

tom

--
Ensure a star-man is never constructed!

Tom Anderson:
'Bakerloo' makes me cringe every time i hear it.

Clive Feather:
It made Der Manejment cringe for years before they decided to
live with it.

Well, no. At least, "Rails Through the Clay" (2nd edition) says otherwise:

# The clumsy statutory titles of the three lines were, [of] course,
# too much for the man in the street. A writer in the Evening News
# (G.H.F. Nichols, or 'Quex') coined the tag Bakerloo for the Baker
# Street & Waterloo, a name used by the paper from 7th March 1906¹
# and quickly accepted by the company, which adopted it officially
# from July. This move staggered the prim anti-American editor of
# The Railway Magazine: 'for a railway itself to adopt its gutter
# title, is not what we expect from a railway company. English
# railway officers have more dignity than to act in this [manner].'
# Mr Nokes was spared further nicknames: the other two lines simply
# became known as the Piccadilly² Tube and the Hampstead³ Tube,
# titles which were officially promulgated and stuck well enough.
# A competition was held by the Evening News to find a short title
# for the Piccadilly tube, but none of the rather awkward suggestions
# proved acceptable to the company.

[] indicates places where I have corrected typos in the passage.

¹ 3 days before the line opened. The Piccadilly's opening followed in
December of the same year, so the competition was presumably held in
the intervening months; the Hampstead opened in June of 1907.

² Great Northern, Piccadilly & Brompton Railway.

³ Charing Cross, Euston & Hampstead Railway. The name Northern Line
was first used in 1937.
--
Mark Brader "I wasn't the one who misplaced the entire
Toronto Deltivid asteroid belt!"
"Deja Q", ST:TNG, Richard Danus

My text in this article is in the public domain.

In article , (Mark
Brader) wrote:

³ Charing Cross, Euston & Hampstead Railway. The name Northern Line
was first used in 1937.

It had been called the Morden-Edgware line by then, indicating how much
it had expanded (also incorporating the City adn South London) since 1907


--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sat, 6 Jan 2007, Mark Brader wrote:

Tom Anderson:
'Bakerloo' makes me cringe every time i hear it.

Clive Feather:
It made Der Manejment cringe for years before they decided to
live with it.

Well, no. At least, "Rails Through the Clay" (2nd edition) says otherwise:

But nothing that says there was no cringeing in the ranks in the years
after the decision!

tom

--
made up languages, delusions, skin diseases and unaided human flight

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Sat, 6 Jan 2007, Mark Brader wrote:

Tom Anderson:
'Bakerloo' makes me cringe every time i hear it.

Clive Feather:
It made Der Manejment cringe for years before they decided to
live with it.

Well, no. At least, "Rails Through the Clay" (2nd edition) says
otherwise:

But nothing that says there was no cringeing in the ranks in the
years after the decision!

Officers' mess surely, not "in the ranks"!

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

In article , Mark Brader
writes
Tom Anderson:
'Bakerloo' makes me cringe every time i hear it.

Clive Feather:
It made Der Manejment cringe for years before they decided to
live with it.

Well, no. At least, "Rails Through the Clay" (2nd edition) says otherwise:
[...]

You're right. Memory fault on my part; sorry.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 18:17:23 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote:

Having said that, I'd hazard a guess that the Hammersmith-Aldgate
service won't run off-peak (otherwise why send the Met to Barking?),

Hang on, what? What do you mean by the 'Hammersmith-Aldgate service'?

I refer you to your previous post:

"Metropolitan trains would run through from Liverpool Street to
Barking, and the Hammersmith & City service would run partially to
Aldgate..."

Why won't it run off-peak? How is this related to the Met?

Perhaps it was a bit of a leap, but I was thinking that if the Teacup
service is 6tph off-peak, there might not be a need for additional
trains from Hammersmith as the frequency on that branch would be high
enough anyway. If the trains from Hammersmith to Barking don't run
off-peak, there would be no through service between the East End and
the northern Circle at those times - hence the Met/H&C Aldgate/Barking
swap.


Thinking about it a bit more, unless I'm missing something, the
suggested service pattern seems to be hopelessly inefficient in terms
of movements across Praed Street Junction.

Let's assume the Wimbleware frequency is 6tph (as at present), the
Teacup runs at 7tph peak / 6tph off-peak (same as the current
Circle/H&C frequency), and suppose for now the Hammersmith-Aldgate
frequency is 0tph. This results in exactly the same number of
movements across Praed St Jn as at present. The frequency of trains
from Edgware Road to each of Hammersmith, Wimbledon, and Gloucester
Road (and beyond) stays the same, but the frequency of trains through
to Baker Street and King's Cross is halved. That would, however, allow
more trains to run through from the Met to the City (perhaps that's
the whole idea?).

Now add in say 6tph Hammersmith-Aldgate. This restores the frequency
on all routes to present levels, except it doubles the frequency on
the Hammersmith branch. This is, of course, good. However, Praed St Jn
is now hopelessly congested.

What am I missing here?

asdf wrote:
Now add in say 6tph Hammersmith-Aldgate. This restores the frequency
on all routes to present levels, except it doubles the frequency on
the Hammersmith branch. This is, of course, good. However, Praed St Jn
is now hopelessly congested.

What am I missing here?

Two possibilities:
- Hammermsith to Aldgate is a transitional stage before the T-Cup is
introduced
- Hammermsith to Aldgate will be an extension of the T-Cup service (ie
trains will do a lap of the circle before terminating)

U