On Wed, 3 Jan 2007, chunky munky wrote:

Don't forget that the entire Sub-Surface Railway will be very very
different in 10-15 years tim to what it currently is, including the
District running to Uxbridge instead of the Piccadilly

First i've heard of it, other than as fanfic here. What makes you think
this is going to happen?

tom

--
If the truth can be told so as to be understood, it will be believed.

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
.li...
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007, chunky munky wrote:

Don't forget that the entire Sub-Surface Railway will be very very
different in 10-15 years tim to what it currently is, including the
District running to Uxbridge instead of the Piccadilly

First i've heard of it, other than as fanfic here. What makes you think
this is going to happen?

tom

--
If the truth can be told so as to be understood, it will be believed.

Whats to be gained from having District line trains as opposed to Picadilly
line trains running to Uxbridge?

C wrote:

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
.li...
On Wed, 3 Jan 2007, chunky munky wrote:

Don't forget that the entire Sub-Surface Railway will be very very
different in 10-15 years tim to what it currently is, including the
District running to Uxbridge instead of the Piccadilly

First i've heard of it, other than as fanfic here. What makes you think
this is going to happen?

tom

--
If the truth can be told so as to be understood, it will be believed.

Whats to be gained from having District line trains as opposed to Picadilly
line trains running to Uxbridge?

A higher frequency on the rest of the Piccadilly I guess, because the
line will be shorter in the end, while there would be enough
sub-surface stock to extend the District back to Uxbridge.
This would be a very unattractive service for everyone from North
Ealing to Uxbridge though, since virtually all of those people will
want to get on the express. It doesn't make much sense to make the
longer line the slowest one here, and the shorter (Ealing Broadway)
line the express.

sweek wrote:

It doesn't make much sense to make the
longer line the slowest one here, and the shorter (Ealing Broadway)
line the express.

Surely Ealing Broadway would remain District too... the point of the plan is
to increase Picc frequency to Heathrow, and sending Picc trains to Ealing
Broadway would defeat the point of ceasing to serve Uxbridge.

Anyway, didn't they rebuild a Sudbury station or two to have platforms level
with the tube stock a few years ago?

John Rowland wrote:

sweek wrote:

It doesn't make much sense to make the
longer line the slowest one here, and the shorter (Ealing Broadway)
line the express.

Surely Ealing Broadway would remain District too... the point of the plan is
to increase Picc frequency to Heathrow, and sending Picc trains to Ealing
Broadway would defeat the point of ceasing to serve Uxbridge.

Anyway, didn't they rebuild a Sudbury station or two to have platforms level
with the tube stock a few years ago?

You need less trains for an Ealing Broadway picc. branch than an
Uxbridge picc. branch. Those extra trains could go towards the
increased Heathrow frequency.
I don't think complicating the District line even more is ever a good
idea.

sweek wrote:
John Rowland wrote:
sweek wrote:
It doesn't make much sense to make the longer line the slowest one here,
and the shorter (Ealing Broadway) line the express.

Surely Ealing Broadway would remain District too... the point of the plan is
to increase Picc frequency to Heathrow, and sending Picc trains to Ealing
Broadway would defeat the point of ceasing to serve Uxbridge.

Anyway, didn't they rebuild a Sudbury station or two to have platforms level
with the tube stock a few years ago?

Maybe, but District to Ealing Broadway AND Uxbridge is the only
solution that could eliminate all platforms served by trains of both
sizes. Without this change, level wheelchair access cannot be achieved
at Ealing Common or between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge.

You need less trains for an Ealing Broadway picc. branch than an
Uxbridge picc. branch. Those extra trains could go towards the
increased Heathrow frequency.
I don't think complicating the District line even more is ever a good
idea.

Arguably, when Crossrail is built, Ealing Broadway won't need both
District and Central trains to central London. The capacity might be
better used to create north-south links to Richmond and Uxbridge,
Harrow, or Willesden Junction.

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

There are a number of reasons why the District will end up at Uxbridge
eventually (with the Picc going to Ealing Bdway?).
- The Piccadilly will benefit from the additional rolling stock, when
Terminal 5 opens. There is no new stock for many years yet.
- The platform to train heights will be "level/ step free" between
Rayners Lane and Uxbridge. As set out in the PPP Contract
- The ATO systems for Tube Lines and Metronet will be different, though
thinking about it now must be compatible for the North Ealing to Acton
Town section, unless as some have said the District runs to Ealing
Broadway.

The SSR will be different in that it will have new trains, new
signalling systems with 12 control/signalling locations being replaced
by one Command & Control centre, step free access to the trains,
changes to the lines.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6213384.stm


Colin McKenzie wrote:

sweek wrote:
John Rowland wrote:
sweek wrote:
It doesn't make much sense to make the longer line the slowest one here,
and the shorter (Ealing Broadway) line the express.

Surely Ealing Broadway would remain District too... the point of the plan is
to increase Picc frequency to Heathrow, and sending Picc trains to Ealing
Broadway would defeat the point of ceasing to serve Uxbridge.

Anyway, didn't they rebuild a Sudbury station or two to have platforms level
with the tube stock a few years ago?

Maybe, but District to Ealing Broadway AND Uxbridge is the only
solution that could eliminate all platforms served by trains of both
sizes. Without this change, level wheelchair access cannot be achieved
at Ealing Common or between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge.

You need less trains for an Ealing Broadway picc. branch than an
Uxbridge picc. branch. Those extra trains could go towards the
increased Heathrow frequency.
I don't think complicating the District line even more is ever a good
idea.

Arguably, when Crossrail is built, Ealing Broadway won't need both
District and Central trains to central London. The capacity might be
better used to create north-south links to Richmond and Uxbridge,
Harrow, or Willesden Junction.

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 20:52:10 +0000, Colin McKenzie wrote:

It doesn't make much sense to make the longer line the slowest one here,
and the shorter (Ealing Broadway) line the express.

Surely Ealing Broadway would remain District too... the point of the plan is
to increase Picc frequency to Heathrow, and sending Picc trains to Ealing
Broadway would defeat the point of ceasing to serve Uxbridge.

Anyway, didn't they rebuild a Sudbury station or two to have platforms level
with the tube stock a few years ago?

Maybe, but District to Ealing Broadway AND Uxbridge is the only
solution that could eliminate all platforms served by trains of both
sizes. Without this change, level wheelchair access cannot be achieved
at Ealing Common or between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge.

The southern Circle couldn't handle a fifth western destination - the
frequency on each is bad enough with 4. Perhaps Ealing Broadway could
be served instead by an Ealing Broadway - High Street Kensington
service. Or the District service could even become a bit like the Met,
with a proportion of trains from all branches terminating at HSK (cf
Baker Street) instead of running onto the Circle.

Here's an alternative idea, though it's a bit off the wall. By this
time, the District will run under ATO. The driver won't actually drive
the train (under normal circumstances), but will just press "go" and
the train will drive itself to the next station. This would mean that,
just like on the DLR, the driver wouldn't need to be sitting at the
front end of the train - he could reside in an area with door controls
(like the guard's areas on pre-DOO Tube stock), or roam the train
(like on the DLR).

Build a west-to-north curve so that trains can run through from Ealing
Broadway to North Ealing. District trains to Uxbridge would run
Central London - Ealing Common - Ealing Broadway (reverse) - North
Ealing - Uxbridge. A reversal en route wouldn't be a problem as
there'd be no need for the driver to change ends.

Result: Ealing Broadway and Uxbridge branches both served; new local
service to Ealing Broadway from the north; faster journey for London
commuters (by changing to Crossrail at Ealing Broadway).

You need less trains for an Ealing Broadway picc. branch than an
Uxbridge picc. branch. Those extra trains could go towards the
increased Heathrow frequency.
I don't think complicating the District line even more is ever a good
idea.

Arguably, when Crossrail is built, Ealing Broadway won't need both
District and Central trains to central London.

Not everyone who takes the District goes to central London, though.

The capacity might be
better used to create north-south links to Richmond and Uxbridge,
Harrow, or Willesden Junction.

How do you mean? A Harrow-Ealing-Richmond orbital line would be very
handy for a lot of people, but...