London Banter - Ken to TOCs - end of January deadline to sign up for Oyster PAYG

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Ken to TOCs - end of January deadline to sign up for Oyster PAYG

Paul Corfield wrote:

Oh not again.

The problem won't go away by ignoring it!! FCC are already noticing the
problem with the new gates on the GN branch, where people are managing
to get through pretty easily.

The gates are very slow to open - and close, which frustrates people
with tickets and rewards those without. If you were involved with their
introduction, you must admit that they're far from perfect.

On the plus side, they do look nice and are very slim (which is useful
for the TOCs that have relatively small entrances in comparison to the
Underground).

Jonathan

Ken to TOCs - end of January deadline to sign up for Oyster PAYG

Jonathan Morris wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote:

Oh not again.

The problem won't go away by ignoring it!! FCC are already noticing the
problem with the new gates on the GN branch, where people are managing
to get through pretty easily.

He already said he hadn't been involved with this for years. I agree
that the slow gates are very frustrating (more so because they are new!)
but perhaps we should address our frustration elsewhere?
--
Michael Hoffman

Ken to TOCs - end of January deadline to sign up for Oyster PAYG

Michael Hoffman wrote:

Jonathan Morris wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote:

Oh not again.

The problem won't go away by ignoring it!! FCC are already noticing the
problem with the new gates on the GN branch, where people are managing
to get through pretty easily.

He already said he hadn't been involved with this for years. I agree
that the slow gates are very frustrating (more so because they are new!)
but perhaps we should address our frustration elsewhere?

Indeed - stop berating the man - he didn't do it!

Write to TfL and/or London Travelwatch instead. And if you're that
miffed actually do it!

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/contacts/Default.asp
https://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/contacts/form.asp

http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/contact.php

Ken to TOCs - end of January deadline to sign up for Oyster PAYG

On 11 Jan 2007 06:09:31 -0800, "Jonathan Morris"
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

Oh not again.

The problem won't go away by ignoring it!!

With thanks to the two posters who have commented already I'll make one
thing straight.

I post here for *fun* - this isn't my job or even an extension of it. I
hope I add something to the group by commenting or sharing information.
If people are going to expect more from me than I can ever hope to
deliver - and it's happened once before - I'll simply have to go. (Don't
all cheer at once!).

While I'm sure it would be lovely to imagine that I'm personally
accountable for everything that happens on LU I'm afraid I'm not. I
can't take ownership of every issue or go round quoting one post from a
newsgroup as some grounds for doing something.

You obviously have an enormous "bee in your bonnet" about these gates
and you should therefore raise your concerns through the correct
channels if you have not already done so.

FCC are already noticing the
problem with the new gates on the GN branch, where people are managing
to get through pretty easily.

I assume you have also complained to FCC.

The gates are very slow to open - and close, which frustrates people
with tickets and rewards those without. If you were involved with their
introduction, you must admit that they're far from perfect.

I have not been involved in Prestige or ticket gates for 8 years. The KX
gates are a further development of the Mk1 electric "slim" gate - I was
involved with that development and while not perfect [1] I think it has
done very well given it was used to extend LU gating and has been used
extensively on the TOCs. The fact I can talk about the gates is a sign
of my elephantine memory rather than knowledge of recent developments.

[1] note that I do not believe you can create such a thing as there are
too many necessary compromises between safety, speed and throughput.

--
Paul C

Admits to working for London Underground!

Ken to TOCs - end of January deadline to sign up for Oyster PAYG

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
On 11 Jan 2007 06:09:31 -0800, "Jonathan Morris"
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

Oh not again.

The problem won't go away by ignoring it!!

With thanks to the two posters who have commented already I'll make one
thing straight.

I post here for *fun* - this isn't my job or even an extension of it.
And most of the "serious" (albeit also "for fun") posters here realise
that, Paul.

Paul's contributions to the group are usually among the most informed
and interesting that we have; it's good to have someone with a degree
of inside knowledge on how systems were developed and why things are as
they are. Indeed, one of the strengths of utl is that it attracts a
variety of people with an amazing range of knowledge that usually makes
for interesting discussions. Other Usenet groups I've been involved
with have deteriorated over the years, while this one still seems to be
both interesting and useful.

I
hope I add something to the group by commenting or sharing information.
You do!

If people are going to expect more from me than I can ever hope to
deliver - and it's happened once before - I'll simply have to go. (Don't
all cheer at once!).
As you'll no doubt have gathered by now, that's the last thing that
anyone here would want, whatever their views on individual subjects.

While I'm sure it would be lovely to imagine that I'm personally
accountable for everything that happens on LU I'm afraid I'm not.
If it makes you feel better, I recently posted that being "face to face"
with visitors makes me personally responsible for every conceivable
issue in London. And quite a number of inconceivable ones to boot.

So I know how you feel!

Keep posting Paul; utl is the richer for it.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Ken to TOCs - end of January deadline to sign up for Oyster PAYG

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:16:13 +0000, Ian Jelf
wrote:

[...]

Keep posting Paul; utl is the richer for it.

IAWTP, in every particular.

Ken to TOCs - end of January deadline to sign up for Oyster PAYG

Paul Scott wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote in message
oups.com...

From the March '06 TfL press release about the new SWT franchise [1]:

"This means that from 2009, passengers on the on the South West Main
Line will be able to take Oyster ticketing [...]"

....and...

"The specification outlined demands that the successful bidder for the
franchise will:
* Provide Oyster validating or ITSO equipment at all stations on the
South West Main Line franchise by 2009"

However if you take a look at this May '06 TfL press release [2] you'll
see that there are moves to integrate the proprietary Oyster smart card
system with an ITSO system. This is from the end notes:

"The Department for Transport has agreed to fund for upgrades to
existing Oyster equipment in London to make Oyster gates and validators
on the Underground, at major rail termini and on the buses, accept
basic alternative Smartcard (ITSO) products. The expected cost is
around £19m."

Exactly how Oyster and ITSO smartcards will work together in practice
isn't clear - not least because it probably hasn't yet been worked out!

I think I've read that it is now do-able. There is an incentive for the
manufacturers to make it work; an Oyster gadget is only of use in
London, but an ITSO gadget could be sold nationally, and even
internationally, opening up a much bigger market of potential purchasers
to the gadget maker.

Sounds like much more convergence is happening then - in the latest SWT mag
they still simply refer to smartcards - I suspect that some negotiation will
take place and the name 'Oyster' will survive - a bit like Mr Hoover's
invention....

In London. Presuambly the names of other cards will also be used in
their own areas (Yorcard in south Yorkshire, etc). While the
compatibility issues does seem to get portrayed as evil TOCs conspiring
against cuddly Oysters out of pure malice, the desire of DfT and the
TOCs to have a national set of open standards rather than lots of
individual incompatible proprietary systems does strike me a good idea.
An awful lot of UK transport technology and planning seems to be a case
of "I wouldn't start from here", and getting a standardised system might
avoid another set of problems in the future.

--

Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Ken to TOCs - end of January deadline to sign up for Oyster PAYG

Paul Corfield wrote:
I post here for *fun* - this isn't my job or even an extension of it. I
hope I add something to the group by commenting or sharing information.
If people are going to expect more from me than I can ever hope to
deliver - and it's happened once before - I'll simply have to go. (Don't
all cheer at once!).

Time to go on the defensive here...!

I am not holding you responsible WHATSOEVER, but when you stuck up for
them and other people criticised them, I felt it was okay to ask what
you thought about them. It doesn't matter either way, and it doesn't
bother me /that/ much.

Yes, I am concerned that people can avoid paying their fare as a
result. Part of this is because in the space of a week I had two people
double up on me, but I don't lose that much sleep over it. I'm not
about to pin them down to the ground and place them under citizens
arrest! Maybe I should (!) and the possible upside would be that you
wouldn't be reading this now; I'd be in hospital, or worse.

You got me wrong the last time too. I have an opinion, just like you
do, and it seems to be shared by passengers and officials alike. You
did say you were involved in their roll out so please excuse me if I
didn't see elsewhere that it was a long time ago. I am not fully up to
speed on when these gates first appeared anywhere, although I know
Kings Cross was obviously not the first.

While I'm sure it would be lovely to imagine that I'm personally
accountable for everything that happens on LU I'm afraid I'm not. I
can't take ownership of every issue or go round quoting one post from a
newsgroup as some grounds for doing something.

I have a great deal of respect for you, and your postings. I would have
to say that the gates are about the only thing I have a beef about, so
it's not all bad is it?

You obviously have an enormous "bee in your bonnet" about these gates
and you should therefore raise your concerns through the correct
channels if you have not already done so.

See my comment above. I have written on more than one occasion about
them, but I write a lot (such is life for a journalist) and that
doesn't mean it's a crusade or a personal attack on you.

FCC are already noticing the
problem with the new gates on the GN branch, where people are managing
to get through pretty easily.

I assume you have also complained to FCC.

I don't really need to complain. I have contacts that I can and do
speak to about such matters. I also deal with the PR for TfL and have
met them before (albeit about things like the journey planner service
and other online/mobile services and not so much the actual train
service), but it isn't a big enough deal to start complaining about the
gates. Should I meet anyone from TfL about something else, I may well
slip it in to conversation - we shall see.

I picked on you because you claimed to have some involvement and seem
to know just about everything you need to know about the tube. As I was
mistaken about all the facts, I can simply go away and whinge like
everyone else in private. Doesn't change the fact that the gates are
too slow though. :)

I have not been involved in Prestige or ticket gates for 8 years. The KX
gates are a further development of the Mk1 electric "slim" gate - I was
involved with that development and while not perfect [1] I think it has
done very well given it was used to extend LU gating and has been used
extensively on the TOCs. The fact I can talk about the gates is a sign
of my elephantine memory rather than knowledge of recent developments.

Fair enough.

Jonathan

Ken to TOCs - end of January deadline to sign up for Oyster PAYG

In London. Presuambly the names of other cards will also be used in
their own areas (Yorcard in south Yorkshire, etc). While the
compatibility issues does seem to get portrayed as evil TOCs conspiring
against cuddly Oysters out of pure malice, the desire of DfT and the
TOCs to have a national set of open standards rather than lots of
individual incompatible proprietary systems does strike me a good idea.
An awful lot of UK transport technology and planning seems to be a case
of "I wouldn't start from here", and getting a standardised system might
avoid another set of problems in the future.

Oystercards are now included in the ITSO spec, at page 88 of
http://itso.org.uk/content/Specifica..._1_2006-10.pdf

According to today's London Lite, Chiltern are to accept PAYG from June
at the rest of its Greater London stations (Northolt Park to Wembley
Stadium) .

They are also to retail cards outside London.

"We are also happy to announce that we are working very hard with
Transport for London on being the first train company to sell Oyster
Smartcards outside London. We will be launching this to our passengers
in 2007"

C2C are also reported to be enabling PAYG acceptance at Dagenham Dock
and Rainham.

Ken to TOCs - end of January deadline to sign up for Oyster PAYG