Richard J. wrote:
snip But the gates then open (for me), the person ahead of me goes through, and the
gates then shut before I can pass through. Further attempts to read my Oyster are
rejected.

Oh yes, that's happened a lot - to me and others - around me when it's
very busy. The other problem is the people 'doubling up' deliberately,
as the new style gates are perfect at letting fare evaders through.
These are the same gates in use now on FCC GN (first being at Stevenage
and one other station). The evaders are already managing to get past
quite successfully, not helped by the fact that inspectors and other
staff will generally turn a blind eye to anyone they feel may assault
them. But that's a discussion best saved for another thread...!

To keep on topic, I'd like to see FCC sign up. I see Chiltern has
signed up (is it for the whole of their network?). In the long run, I
look forward to a standardised smartcard that will work outside of Zone
6 too.

Jonathan

"Jonathan Morris" wrote in message
oups.com...


To keep on topic, I'd like to see FCC sign up. I see Chiltern has
signed up (is it for the whole of their network?). In the long run, I
look forward to a standardised smartcard that will work outside of Zone
6 too.


Bear in mind one of the reasons the TOCs didn't go for Oyster is that the
government was pushing a different standardised smartcard (ITSO format),
and Oyster wasn't compatible with it.

Don't know what the current deal is on interoperability for smartcards,
though I think in the new SWT franchise for example they are not compelled
to introduce 'Oyster' as such, only a smartcard.

Paul

Paul Scott wrote:

"Jonathan Morris" wrote in message
oups.com...


To keep on topic, I'd like to see FCC sign up. I see Chiltern has
signed up (is it for the whole of their network?). In the long run, I
look forward to a standardised smartcard that will work outside of Zone
6 too.


Bear in mind one of the reasons the TOCs didn't go for Oyster is that the
government was pushing a different standardised smartcard (ITSO format),
and Oyster wasn't compatible with it.

Don't know what the current deal is on interoperability for smartcards,
though I think in the new SWT franchise for example they are not compelled
to introduce 'Oyster' as such, only a smartcard.

Paul

From the March '06 TfL press release about the new SWT franchise [1]:

"This means that from 2009, passengers on the on the South West Main
Line will be able to take Oyster ticketing [...]"

....and...

"The specification outlined demands that the successful bidder for the
franchise will:
* Provide Oyster validating or ITSO equipment at all stations on the
South West Main Line franchise by 2009"

However if you take a look at this May '06 TfL press release [2] you'll
see that there are moves to integrate the proprietary Oyster smart card
system with an ITSO system. This is from the end notes:

"The Department for Transport has agreed to fund for upgrades to
existing Oyster equipment in London to make Oyster gates and validators
on the Underground, at major rail termini and on the buses, accept
basic alternative Smartcard (ITSO) products. The expected cost is
around £19m."

Exactly how Oyster and ITSO smartcards will work together in practice
isn't clear - not least because it probably hasn't yet been worked out!

[1]
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/press-releases/press-releases-content.asp?prID=742
[2]
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/press-releases/press-releases-content.asp?prID=776

"Mizter T" wrote in message
oups.com...


From the March '06 TfL press release about the new SWT franchise [1]:

"This means that from 2009, passengers on the on the South West Main
Line will be able to take Oyster ticketing [...]"

....and...

"The specification outlined demands that the successful bidder for the
franchise will:
* Provide Oyster validating or ITSO equipment at all stations on the
South West Main Line franchise by 2009"

However if you take a look at this May '06 TfL press release [2] you'll
see that there are moves to integrate the proprietary Oyster smart card
system with an ITSO system. This is from the end notes:

"The Department for Transport has agreed to fund for upgrades to
existing Oyster equipment in London to make Oyster gates and validators
on the Underground, at major rail termini and on the buses, accept
basic alternative Smartcard (ITSO) products. The expected cost is
around £19m."

Exactly how Oyster and ITSO smartcards will work together in practice
isn't clear - not least because it probably hasn't yet been worked out!


Sounds like much more convergence is happening then - in the latest SWT mag
they still simply refer to smartcards - I suspect that some negotiation will
take place and the name 'Oyster' will survive - a bit like Mr Hoover's
invention....

Paul

Paul Scott wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote in message
oups.com...

From the March '06 TfL press release about the new SWT franchise [1]:

"This means that from 2009, passengers on the on the South West Main
Line will be able to take Oyster ticketing [...]"

....and...

"The specification outlined demands that the successful bidder for the
franchise will:
* Provide Oyster validating or ITSO equipment at all stations on the
South West Main Line franchise by 2009"

However if you take a look at this May '06 TfL press release [2] you'll
see that there are moves to integrate the proprietary Oyster smart card
system with an ITSO system. This is from the end notes:

"The Department for Transport has agreed to fund for upgrades to
existing Oyster equipment in London to make Oyster gates and validators
on the Underground, at major rail termini and on the buses, accept
basic alternative Smartcard (ITSO) products. The expected cost is
around £19m."

Exactly how Oyster and ITSO smartcards will work together in practice
isn't clear - not least because it probably hasn't yet been worked out!

I think I've read that it is now do-able. There is an incentive for the
manufacturers to make it work; an Oyster gadget is only of use in
London, but an ITSO gadget could be sold nationally, and even
internationally, opening up a much bigger market of potential purchasers
to the gadget maker.

Sounds like much more convergence is happening then - in the latest SWT mag
they still simply refer to smartcards - I suspect that some negotiation will
take place and the name 'Oyster' will survive - a bit like Mr Hoover's
invention....

In London. Presuambly the names of other cards will also be used in
their own areas (Yorcard in south Yorkshire, etc). While the
compatibility issues does seem to get portrayed as evil TOCs conspiring
against cuddly Oysters out of pure malice, the desire of DfT and the
TOCs to have a national set of open standards rather than lots of
individual incompatible proprietary systems does strike me a good idea.
An awful lot of UK transport technology and planning seems to be a case
of "I wouldn't start from here", and getting a standardised system might
avoid another set of problems in the future.


--

Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

In London. Presuambly the names of other cards will also be used in
their own areas (Yorcard in south Yorkshire, etc). While the
compatibility issues does seem to get portrayed as evil TOCs conspiring
against cuddly Oysters out of pure malice, the desire of DfT and the
TOCs to have a national set of open standards rather than lots of
individual incompatible proprietary systems does strike me a good idea.
An awful lot of UK transport technology and planning seems to be a case
of "I wouldn't start from here", and getting a standardised system might
avoid another set of problems in the future.



Oystercards are now included in the ITSO spec, at page 88 of
http://itso.org.uk/content/Specifica..._1_2006-10.pdf

According to today's London Lite, Chiltern are to accept PAYG from June
at the rest of its Greater London stations (Northolt Park to Wembley
Stadium) .

They are also to retail cards outside London.

"We are also happy to announce that we are working very hard with
Transport for London on being the first train company to sell Oyster
Smartcards outside London. We will be launching this to our passengers
in 2007"

C2C are also reported to be enabling PAYG acceptance at Dagenham Dock
and Rainham.

Matthew wrote:


In London. Presuambly the names of other cards will also be used in
their own areas (Yorcard in south Yorkshire, etc). While the
compatibility issues does seem to get portrayed as evil TOCs conspiring
against cuddly Oysters out of pure malice, the desire of DfT and the
TOCs to have a national set of open standards rather than lots of
individual incompatible proprietary systems does strike me a good idea.
An awful lot of UK transport technology and planning seems to be a case
of "I wouldn't start from here", and getting a standardised system might
avoid another set of problems in the future.



Oystercards are now included in the ITSO spec, at page 88 of
http://itso.org.uk/content/Specifica..._1_2006-10.pdf

According to today's London Lite, Chiltern are to accept PAYG from June
at the rest of its Greater London stations (Northolt Park to Wembley
Stadium) .

They are also to retail cards outside London.

"We are also happy to announce that we are working very hard with
Transport for London on being the first train company to sell Oyster
Smartcards outside London. We will be launching this to our passengers
in 2007"

C2C are also reported to be enabling PAYG acceptance at Dagenham Dock
and Rainham.

Interest stuff Matthew, thanks for that!

I can't quite decipher from the ITSO specification exactly how Oyster
and the ITSO smartcard standard will work together, but it appears that
a combination smartcard that utilises both Oyster and the ITSO standard
will be possible, which is logical enough.

There's a myriad of implementation issues with regards to how Oyster
would work with a national ITSO standard travel smartcard, but given
that any such national smartcard is a long way off that's not something
to worry about too much. What is important is ensuring that future
Oyster equipment (Oyster scanners on gates and in ticket offices etc)
will be able to handle ITSO-standard smartcards as well - and it
appears that this will indeed be the case.

Also very interesting stuff regarding Chiltern. The bit about them
accepting Oyster PAYG for journeys within Greater London - i.e. within
the zones - is just an (overdue) logical development. It's a pretty
stupid situation from the passengers point of view where Oyster PAYG
can't be used at some intermediate stations.

The situation on the DC lines (Euston - Watford) at Kilburn High Street
and South Hampstead will be resolved when TfL take over from Silverlink
in November, which just leaves the 'one' lines from Liverpool Street up
to / Seven Sisters/ Tottenham Hale/ Walthamstow Central to be sorted
out. C2C accepting Oyster PAYG at Rainham and Degenham Dock is just a
logical development in that they are of course the only two stations
C2C has in the zones that don't currently accept PAYG.

However the stuff about Chiltern offering Oyster smartcards outside of
London is very interesting - so much so that I'm going to start a new
thread about it!

Matthew wrote:
In London. Presuambly the names of other cards will also be used in
their own areas (Yorcard in south Yorkshire, etc). While the
compatibility issues does seem to get portrayed as evil TOCs conspiring
against cuddly Oysters out of pure malice, the desire of DfT and the
TOCs to have a national set of open standards rather than lots of
individual incompatible proprietary systems does strike me a good idea.
An awful lot of UK transport technology and planning seems to be a case
of "I wouldn't start from here", and getting a standardised system might
avoid another set of problems in the future.



Oystercards are now included in the ITSO spec, at page 88 of
http://itso.org.uk/content/Specifica..._1_2006-10.pdf

According to today's London Lite, Chiltern are to accept PAYG from June
at the rest of its Greater London stations (Northolt Park to Wembley
Stadium) .

They are also to retail cards outside London.

"We are also happy to announce that we are working very hard with
Transport for London on being the first train company to sell Oyster
Smartcards outside London. We will be launching this to our passengers
in 2007"

C2C are also reported to be enabling PAYG acceptance at Dagenham Dock
and Rainham.

That's good news - with two TOCs fully on-board within London, pressure
will mount on others to follow suit. Of course, Chiltern and c2c are the
easiest...

I imagine a system update of Oyster will be necessary so that it can
handle NR zonal fares. Passengers using this new PAYG territory will
have be especially careful to touch in and touch out correctly, because
cross-London fares calculated incorrectly could be quite expensive!

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

According to today's London Lite, Chiltern are to accept PAYG from June
at the rest of its Greater London stations (Northolt Park to Wembley
Stadium) .

They are also to retail cards outside London.

"We are also happy to announce that we are working very hard with
Transport for London on being the first train company to sell Oyster
Smartcards outside London. We will be launching this to our passengers
in 2007"

C2C are also reported to be enabling PAYG acceptance at Dagenham Dock
and Rainham.

According to the press release on the TfL website they are going to extend
PAYG to c2c stations in the western part of Thurrock by 2008 (Ockendon,
Purfleet, Chafford and Grays). I wonder if they will move them to zone 6 or
have special fares for PAYG to work.

In article .com, j
(Jonathan Morris) wrote:

These are the same gates in use now on FCC GN (first being at
Stevenage and one other station).

Cambridge, allegedly. No sign of a planning application. Note that
neither of these stations is run by FCC.

--
Colin Rosenstiel