On Mon, 15 Jan 2007, asdf wrote:

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:32:14 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote:

the Bakerloo extended back to Watford Junction

Yes, i'm really surprised that isn't shown.

The map is a few years old - from long before Bakerloo to WJ was
confirmed.

There's more speculative stuff than that that is shown, though. Or did
this idea develop particularly quickly?

This map (the copy i have, anyway) is missing the new stops at Park Royal
on the Central and Wood Lane on the H&C, too, which is rather surprising
given that they're due very soon.

Park Royal (Central) is due very soon? I haven't heard anything on this
project for years, and would have assumed it's been postponed
indefinitely if not quietly dropped altogether.

Oh, i had the impression things were being done. I may well be completely
mistaken - there's a lot going on out west, and i don't tend to pay all
that much attention to it!

tom

--
Yulava? Niob Yam!

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2007, asdf wrote:

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:32:14 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote:

the Bakerloo extended back to Watford Junction

Yes, i'm really surprised that isn't shown.

The map is a few years old - from long before Bakerloo to WJ was
confirmed.

There's more speculative stuff than that that is shown, though. Or did
this idea develop particularly quickly?

Whilst the Bakerloo northern extension has been on the cards tentatively
for a while, the announcement that TfL would take over the Watford DC
line was the catalyst for it to go forward more definitely. The map is
pre-announcement (it still shows it as Silverlink Metro, and omits
through connections at Willesden Junction and Gospel Oak.

This map (the copy i have, anyway) is missing the new stops at Park
Royal
on the Central and Wood Lane on the H&C, too, which is rather surprising
given that they're due very soon.

Park Royal (Central) is due very soon? I haven't heard anything on
this project for years, and would have assumed it's been postponed
indefinitely if not quietly dropped altogether.

Oh, i had the impression things were being done. I may well be
completely mistaken - there's a lot going on out west, and i don't tend
to pay all that much attention to it!

Unfortunately nothing has happened with Park Royal. AIUI the
construction of the station is tied into planning consent conditions
related to occupancy of the buildings in the adjacent development (i.e.
once occupancy hits a certain percentage, the station must be built) and
the conditions haven't been met yet.

Wood Lane is more advanced than Park Royal (in that it is required for
the shopping centre) - although last time I looked in December, no
physical works had started.

Shepherd's Bush (WLL) will almost certainly be the next new station to
open in London - construction is nearing completion and I hear that
Network Rail are keen to get the station operating as soon as possible
(probably the second quarter of this calendar year).


--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave A wrote:


Shepherd's Bush (WLL) will almost certainly be the next new station to
open in London - construction is nearing completion and I hear that
Network Rail are keen to get the station operating as soon as possible
(probably the second quarter of this calendar year).



That sounds good. I'm surprised by how busy the WLL is already - it's
been full and standing when I've taken it - even though there are only
four stations. It has the potential to be very useful, although
unfortunately the RUS (I think it was) ruled out even 4 tph in the near
future, and I reckon 6 tph is the minimum for a turn-up-and-go service,
particularly when many people will be interchanging from other lines.
But certainly Clapham Junction to Shepherd's Bush will be an order of
magnitude easier with the new station.

brixtonite wrote:
Dave A wrote:

Shepherd's Bush (WLL) will almost certainly be the next new station to
open in London - construction is nearing completion and I hear that
Network Rail are keen to get the station operating as soon as possible
(probably the second quarter of this calendar year).



That sounds good. I'm surprised by how busy the WLL is already - it's
been full and standing when I've taken it - even though there are only
four stations. It has the potential to be very useful, although
unfortunately the RUS (I think it was) ruled out even 4 tph in the near
future, and I reckon 6 tph is the minimum for a turn-up-and-go service,
particularly when many people will be interchanging from other lines.
But certainly Clapham Junction to Shepherd's Bush will be an order of
magnitude easier with the new station.

My observations of the WLL are certainly that AM peak northbound trains
arriving at Olympia are full and standing. The RUS estimated about 1,000
passengers per hour leaving Clapham Junction on the WLL in the morning
peak, with an average load factor of 103% (ratio of passengers to
seats). Whilst this isn't as high as some LU and other NR routes, I
think it indicates a strong underlying demand given the relatively poor
and uneven frequency.

Interestingly, the RUS itself indicates quite a low utilisation of the
available capacity - in the range of 20-40%, similar to Gospel Oak to
South Tottenham and the now-closed Stratford to Custom House.

The RUS's recommendation was to extend all NLL/WLL trains to 4 cars in
the short term (by 2009), increase all-day frequency to 4tph on the WLL
in the medium term (2009-12) by creating an additional Southern service
calling all stations from Shepherd's Bush to East Croydon (with
additional "PIXC-busters" to relieve peak overcrowding if trains can't
be lengthened further).

TfL instead wanted an all-day frequency of 5tph on the WLL in the medium
term, by running 4tph Stratford to Clapham Junction to replace the
current 2tph Willesden J to Clapham J, and retaining 1tph Southern
Watford J - Brighton/East Croydon.

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"Dave A" wrote in message
...
brixtonite wrote:
Dave A wrote:

Shepherd's Bush (WLL) will almost certainly be the next new station to
open in London - construction is nearing completion and I hear that
Network Rail are keen to get the station operating as soon as possible
(probably the second quarter of this calendar year).



That sounds good. I'm surprised by how busy the WLL is already - it's
been full and standing when I've taken it - even though there are only
four stations. It has the potential to be very useful, although
unfortunately the RUS (I think it was) ruled out even 4 tph in the near
future, and I reckon 6 tph is the minimum for a turn-up-and-go service,
particularly when many people will be interchanging from other lines.
But certainly Clapham Junction to Shepherd's Bush will be an order of
magnitude easier with the new station.

My observations of the WLL are certainly that AM peak northbound trains
arriving at Olympia are full and standing. The RUS estimated about 1,000
passengers per hour leaving Clapham Junction on the WLL in the morning
peak, with an average load factor of 103% (ratio of passengers to seats).

That's the healthy increase.

I had to catch the Kenny-Bell(e?) once in the old days
when it was a peak hour shuttle, CJ to KO only.

It was me, the driver, and two others.

tim

Dave A wrote:
brixtonite wrote:
Dave A wrote:

Shepherd's Bush (WLL) will almost certainly be the next new station to
open in London - construction is nearing completion and I hear that
Network Rail are keen to get the station operating as soon as possible
(probably the second quarter of this calendar year).



That sounds good. I'm surprised by how busy the WLL is already - it's
been full and standing when I've taken it - even though there are only
four stations. It has the potential to be very useful, although
unfortunately the RUS (I think it was) ruled out even 4 tph in the near
future, and I reckon 6 tph is the minimum for a turn-up-and-go service,
particularly when many people will be interchanging from other lines.
But certainly Clapham Junction to Shepherd's Bush will be an order of
magnitude easier with the new station.

My observations of the WLL are certainly that AM peak northbound trains
arriving at Olympia are full and standing. The RUS estimated about 1,000
passengers per hour leaving Clapham Junction on the WLL in the morning
peak, with an average load factor of 103% (ratio of passengers to
seats). Whilst this isn't as high as some LU and other NR routes, I
think it indicates a strong underlying demand given the relatively poor
and uneven frequency.

Well it's their manor I guess, but my experiences a couple of years ago
of the morning peak from Clapham Junction northbound were of loading
factors considerably higher than that - 'full, standing, and
complaining' as they used to say in BR days!


--
Larry Lard

The address is real, but unread - please reply to the group

Larry Lard wrote:
Dave A wrote:
brixtonite wrote:
Dave A wrote:

Shepherd's Bush (WLL) will almost certainly be the next new station to
open in London - construction is nearing completion and I hear that
Network Rail are keen to get the station operating as soon as possible
(probably the second quarter of this calendar year).



That sounds good. I'm surprised by how busy the WLL is already - it's
been full and standing when I've taken it - even though there are only
four stations. It has the potential to be very useful, although
unfortunately the RUS (I think it was) ruled out even 4 tph in the near
future, and I reckon 6 tph is the minimum for a turn-up-and-go service,
particularly when many people will be interchanging from other lines.
But certainly Clapham Junction to Shepherd's Bush will be an order of
magnitude easier with the new station.

My observations of the WLL are certainly that AM peak northbound
trains arriving at Olympia are full and standing. The RUS estimated
about 1,000 passengers per hour leaving Clapham Junction on the WLL in
the morning peak, with an average load factor of 103% (ratio of
passengers to seats). Whilst this isn't as high as some LU and other
NR routes, I think it indicates a strong underlying demand given the
relatively poor and uneven frequency.

Well it's their manor I guess, but my experiences a couple of years ago
of the morning peak from Clapham Junction northbound were of loading
factors considerably higher than that - 'full, standing, and
complaining' as they used to say in BR days!

The figure I quoted is an average over the entire 3-hour morning peak
from 0700 to 1000, so I imagine, as you experienced, that load factors
will be considerably higher for services in the core hour from 0800-0900
(and commensurately lower for the shoulder peaks).

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

brixtonite wrote:

Dave A wrote:


Shepherd's Bush (WLL) will almost certainly be the next new station to
open in London - construction is nearing completion and I hear that
Network Rail are keen to get the station operating as soon as possible
(probably the second quarter of this calendar year).



That sounds good. I'm surprised by how busy the WLL is already - it's
been full and standing when I've taken it - even though there are only
four stations. It has the potential to be very useful, although
unfortunately the RUS (I think it was) ruled out even 4 tph in the near
future, and I reckon 6 tph is the minimum for a turn-up-and-go service,
particularly when many people will be interchanging from other lines.
But certainly Clapham Junction to Shepherd's Bush will be an order of
magnitude easier with the new station.

I'm not surprised by how busy the WLL is - it's a very useful link
after all! It would be useful if it were more frequent - though I'd say
4tph is the minimum for a turn up and go service rather than 6tph (that
said in the evening the NLL has 3tph i.e. a 20 minute frequency but it
still seems to be treated by many as turn up and go then).

I do have to say that, if you're an able bodied person, Clapham
Junction to Shepherd's Bush is a really easy journey to make even at
the moment - the Bush is a short (five to ten minute) walk up the road
from Kensington Olympia. This does make it less attractive as an
interchange point (though it's not something I'd baulk at) but as a way
of getting to Shepherd's Bush, Olympia is easy enough. Of course this
will all change shortly.

Mizter T wrote:
brixtonite wrote:

Dave A wrote:

Shepherd's Bush (WLL) will almost certainly be the next new station to
open in London - construction is nearing completion and I hear that
Network Rail are keen to get the station operating as soon as possible
(probably the second quarter of this calendar year).


That sounds good. I'm surprised by how busy the WLL is already - it's
been full and standing when I've taken it - even though there are only
four stations. It has the potential to be very useful, although
unfortunately the RUS (I think it was) ruled out even 4 tph in the near
future, and I reckon 6 tph is the minimum for a turn-up-and-go service,
particularly when many people will be interchanging from other lines.
But certainly Clapham Junction to Shepherd's Bush will be an order of
magnitude easier with the new station.

I'm not surprised by how busy the WLL is - it's a very useful link
after all! It would be useful if it were more frequent - though I'd say
4tph is the minimum for a turn up and go service rather than 6tph (that
said in the evening the NLL has 3tph i.e. a 20 minute frequency but it
still seems to be treated by many as turn up and go then).

I do have to say that, if you're an able bodied person, Clapham
Junction to Shepherd's Bush is a really easy journey to make even at
the moment - the Bush is a short (five to ten minute) walk up the road
from Kensington Olympia. This does make it less attractive as an
interchange point (though it's not something I'd baulk at) but as a way
of getting to Shepherd's Bush, Olympia is easy enough. Of course this
will all change shortly.

A reasonably number of people already walk up to the Bush from Olympia
(five minutes is painfully optimistic; I leave 11 minutes to get there
at a reasonable pace), and there is a shuttle bus from Olympia to the
BBC at White City for employees. Some people also head towards
Hammersmith from Olympia - there are quite a few offices along
Hammersmith Road.

It's all very well to get to the Green itself, but for other parts of
the Bush - particularly White City - walking from Olympia is not a
popular option and there are no buses (buses at Olympia are a couple of
minutes' walk from the platforms anyway and are mainly useful for
getting to Hammersmith; Shepherd's Bush is usually quicker to walk to,
and Kensington High St, Earl's Court and West Kensington can be reached
more easily via West Brompton (northbound is the much larger flow in the
AM peak).

I wouldn't bother using Olympia to Shepherd's Bush as an interchange -
there are almost bound to be other equally, if not more, attractive
routings given the length of interchange (it could be 15 mins between
alighting at Olympia and boarding at the Bush - if you get to the Green
at just the wrong time, it can take two minutes just to cross the road
from the shopping centre to the Tube station!).

Shepherd's Bush is very much a bus hub as well as providing a very high
frequency east-west link. The new bus station at Shepherd's Bush will
make bus-rail connections into/from the WLL pretty attractive - for
southbound passengers as well as northbound ones. For example, a journey
from Harrow to Hammersmith may become more attractive via train to
Shepherd's Bush and (frequent) bus to Hammersmith from right outside the
station. The same applies to a whole range of journey combinations
between north-west London and west London.

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:12:59 +0000, Dave A wrote:

Shepherd's Bush is very much a bus hub as well as providing a very high
frequency east-west link. The new bus station at Shepherd's Bush will
make bus-rail connections into/from the WLL pretty attractive - for
southbound passengers as well as northbound ones. For example, a journey
from Harrow to Hammersmith may become more attractive via train to
Shepherd's Bush and (frequent) bus to Hammersmith from right outside the
station.

Except that the Southern WLL services (i.e. trains from Harrow &
Wealdstone) won't stop at the new Shepherds Bush station.