The Dutch version of Oyster (OV-chip) is being pushed harder and
harder with the plan to have it as the only way to pay by 2009. Just
heard it'll work on a 11cent/km basis, obliterating the current zone
scheme which obviously will affect people differently depending on
where they start/finish in the zones (zones being like cellphone ones,
not ringed like London's Westend centric one).

The card to push will be the "autoreload" version where you never need
to add dosh manually to it ever again. Which, as an interviewee said,
makes price rises easier!

Interesting that they charge on distance which is the opposite to the
expanded NR component of Oyster in S. London where zoning will be
used.

My regret is that NL stations will become closed with gated access. I
prefer the honour system (can't trust those Amsterdammers but surely
the rest are honest!).

--
Old anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com appears broke
So back to cmylod at bigfoot dot com

On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 09:27:43 -0000, Colum Mylod
wrote:

My regret is that NL stations will become closed with gated access. I
prefer the honour system (can't trust those Amsterdammers but surely
the rest are honest!).

Dunno, you've got to keep yer eye on those Limburgers too.
;-D

--
Fig

All the OV chipcard stuff so far has been a big disaster. They're now
replacing the gates in Rotterdam for a SECOND time, and the system
isn't even working yet. The gates are incredibly slow, I wonder why
they don't just use the same type as in London or another system's
that's already proved itself.
Having to touch out in buses and trams seems like a lot of effort and
will probably lead to larger dwell times.
I was hoping this would give you the option to just get on a train,
switch to a metro, and only pay a combined fair for both of them. But
instead it still works with separate journeys for every type of
transport.

Oh well, I know I'm sounding very negative here, but the Dutch haven't
been able to deliver on transport projects (HSL-Zuid, Betuweroute
etc.) lately.

sweek wrote:
The gates are incredibly slow, I wonder why
they don't just use the same type as in London or another system's
that's already proved itself.

Maybe they are--the gates at King's Cross St. Pancras Underground that is.
--
Michael Hoffman

On Feb 1, 1:25 pm, "sweek" wrote:

Having to touch out in buses and trams seems like a lot of effort and
will probably lead to larger dwell times.

Doesn't in Singapore. Indeed, I'd recommend it as a good solution for
a UK ITSO smartcard, because it would allow a smartcard to be
implemented with no fare structure change at all, which would be
rather useful where there are a multitude of private bus companies
with different fare levels.

I was hoping this would give you the option to just get on a train,
switch to a metro, and only pay a combined fair for both of them. But
instead it still works with separate journeys for every type of
transport.

Does it charge two "base tariffs" for two journeys, or is there an
interchange discount? If it charges two "base tariffs" it's far worse
than the Strippenkaart, which allows unlimited free changes of vehicle/
mode.

Oh well, I know I'm sounding very negative here, but the Dutch haven't
been able to deliver on transport projects (HSL-Zuid, Betuweroute
etc.) lately.

And Randstadrail, which has been an unmitigated, British-style
disaster. Given that the classic tram rail and the Alstom LRVs appear
to be totally incompatible (two more derailments on the 3 route last
week, not on steeply-superelevated track unlike previous problems) I
fail to see how it can ever run.

Neil

I think it does charge two base fares, and you can only use a
strippenkaart on trains within Amsterdam. I don't think you're allowed
to in any other city.
And yes, Randstadrail, Utrechtboog, Veolia... I don't know what it is
that's been going so awful lately.

On 1 Feb 2007 05:40:40 -0800, "Neil Williams"
wrote:

On Feb 1, 1:25 pm, "sweek" wrote:

Having to touch out in buses and trams seems like a lot of effort and
will probably lead to larger dwell times.

Doesn't in Singapore. Indeed, I'd recommend it as a good solution for
a UK ITSO smartcard, because it would allow a smartcard to be
implemented with no fare structure change at all, which would be
rather useful where there are a multitude of private bus companies
with different fare levels.

I was genuinely surprised how well exit validation on bus worked in
Singapore when I was there a few weeks ago. It didn't seem to cause any
undue delay over a range of vehicle types that I observed. I used the
system myself and got used to it quite quickly. I have to say I have my
doubts as to how well it work in our less ordered, less obedient society
and with our preponderance towards to one door buses - everything in
Singapore was dual door.

I was hoping this would give you the option to just get on a train,
switch to a metro, and only pay a combined fair for both of them. But
instead it still works with separate journeys for every type of
transport.

Does it charge two "base tariffs" for two journeys, or is there an
interchange discount? If it charges two "base tariffs" it's far worse
than the Strippenkaart, which allows unlimited free changes of vehicle/
mode.

Oh well, I know I'm sounding very negative here, but the Dutch haven't
been able to deliver on transport projects (HSL-Zuid, Betuweroute
etc.) lately.

And Randstadrail, which has been an unmitigated, British-style
disaster. Given that the classic tram rail and the Alstom LRVs appear
to be totally incompatible (two more derailments on the 3 route last
week, not on steeply-superelevated track unlike previous problems) I
fail to see how it can ever run.

This does seem to be a surprising "disaster" for Dutch public transport.
It is a long time since I've been to the Netherlands so have lost touch
with how the various main city networks are faring. I have read a
little about Randstadrail and know broadly what it was trying to
achieve. What has the local reaction been like to the problems that have
arisen? Shock, outrage, resignation, something altogether more Dutch?

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

This does seem to be a surprising "disaster" for Dutch public transport.
It is a long time since I've been to the Netherlands so have lost touch
with how the various main city networks are faring. I have read a
little about Randstadrail and know broadly what it was trying to
achieve. What has the local reaction been like to the problems that have
arisen? Shock, outrage, resignation, something altogether more Dutch?

The systems are quite okay, really. I don't think you could say
anything is really getting worse. But the improvements that had been
planned have all been delivered late, went overbudget and have had
introductory problems.
This is true the five big projects; Randstadrail (still not ready,
detrainments have put the whole thing to a halt), HSL-Zuid (still not
ready, overbudget), Betuweroute (still not ready, overbudget) and the
North-South line in Amsterdam (overbudget, due date has already been
set back) and the OV-Chipkaart (as described above, going to be
introduced late as well). I'm sure we'll see the actual improvements
in the end, but these things aren't making railways any more popular
with the general public, and I can't see it helping with upcoming
projects. The Hanzelijn, although only in its planning stages, has
secured its money and it looks like that will be going well. So far.

On a brighter note, the completely new timetable that was introduced
in December has actually been a succes, and not the big disaster that
many had thought it would be.

(I don't live there anymore now, but I try and keep up to date.

On 1 Feb, 09:27, Colum Mylod wrote:
The Dutch version of Oyster (OV-chip) is being pushed harder and
harder with the plan to have it as the only way to pay by 2009. Just
heard it'll work on a 11cent/km basis, obliterating the current zone
scheme which obviously will affect people differently depending on
where they start/finish in the zones (zones being like cellphone ones,
not ringed like London's Westend centric one).

The card to push will be the "autoreload" version where you never need
to add dosh manually to it ever again. Which, as an interviewee said,
makes price rises easier!

Interesting that they charge on distance which is the opposite to the
expanded NR component of Oyster in S. London where zoning will be
used.

My regret is that NL stations will become closed with gated access. I
prefer the honour system (can't trust those Amsterdammers but surely
the rest are honest!).

All stations? That's quite a commitment. In the UK, gates need to have
human oversight for Heath and Safety rules. This doesn't seem to be
the case in Paris which obviously has a different set of rules. But
gating the whole NL network would be incredibly expensive.

alexterrell wrote:
On 1 Feb, 09:27, Colum Mylod wrote:
[...]
My regret is that NL stations will become closed with gated
access. I prefer the honour system (can't trust those
Amsterdammers but surely the rest are honest!).

All stations? That's quite a commitment. In the UK, gates need to
have human oversight for Heath and Safety rules. This doesn't seem
to be the case in Paris which obviously has a different set of
rules.

If you mean the Métro in Paris, they don't have ticket gates on the
exits, so there is no need to have a human presence to ensure that
people can get out of a station. But you may well be right about health
& safety rules being less stringent in France.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)