Not good if you stocked up....

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/englan...on/6397239.stm

Nicks wrote:
Not good if you stocked up....

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/englan...on/6397239.stm

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent....asp?prID=1069

"The current design will no longer be accepted on London Buses after 30
June 30, and we would advise anyone with spare tickets at home to use
them over the next four months as there will be no refund or exchange of
tickets."

Can this be legal? If there was never any indication that the Bus Savers
could expire, then it seems like it would be a violation of the Unfair
Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations.
--
Michael Hoffman

"Michael Hoffman" wrote:

Can this be legal? If there was never any indication that the Bus Savers
could expire, then it seems like it would be a violation of the Unfair
Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations.

But did TfL say the tickets would never expire? I bet they didn't.

Allowing four months to use up residual stocks doesn't sound like an unfair
contract to me, anyway.

If anyone does sue TfL successfully on this matter, remind me to let my mum
know. She's still walking around with a purse full of Multi Ride tickets and
'scratch panel' One Day Bus Passes!

Chris

Chris Read wrote:
"Michael Hoffman" wrote:

Can this be legal? If there was never any indication that the Bus Savers
could expire, then it seems like it would be a violation of the Unfair
Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations.

But did TfL say the tickets would never expire? I bet they didn't.

It doesn't matter. If they didn't provide an expiration date when the
contract was made, then the contract should be enforceable at law until
the six year statute of limitations runs out. It is unfair for them to
be able to unilaterally decide on an expiration date later without
providing a refund. This seems to fall under several of the unfair terms:

(d) permitting the seller or supplier to retain sums paid by the
consumer where the latter decides not to conclude or perform the
contract, without providing for the consumer to receive compensation of
an equivalent amount from the seller or supplier where the latter is the
party cancelling the contract;

(f) authorising the seller or supplier to dissolve the contract on a
discretionary basis where the same facility is not granted to the
consumer, or permitting the seller or supplier to retain the sums paid
for services not yet supplied by him where it is the seller or supplier
himself who dissolves the contract;

(g) enabling the seller or supplier to terminate a contract of
indeterminate duration without reasonable notice except where there are
serious grounds for doing so;

(i) irrevocably binding the consumer to terms with which he had no real
opportunity of becoming acquainted before the conclusion of the contract;

(j) enabling the seller or supplier to alter the terms of the contract
unilaterally without a valid reason which is specified in the contract;

(o) obliging the consumer to fulfil all his obligations where the seller
or supplier does not perform his;

Allowing four months to use up residual stocks doesn't sound like an unfair
contract to me, anyway.

When it has previously been much longer than four months, even when the
price for new savers has gone up, I don't think it is fair or reasonable
to change it now without warning.

If anyone does sue TfL successfully on this matter, remind me to let my mum
know. She's still walking around with a purse full of Multi Ride tickets and
'scratch panel' One Day Bus Passes!

If she bought them more than six years ago, then they are worthless.
--
Michael Hoffman

On Feb 26, 8:14 pm, "Chris Read" wrote:

Allowing four months to use up residual stocks doesn't sound like an unfair
contract to me, anyway.

The Dutch typically allow one fare change, which I think basically
gives about a year (may be two) for Strippenkaarten.

Why not just withdraw Saver tickets completely? Surely Oyster has
superceded them to any practical extent?

Neil

Neil Williams wrote:

Why not just withdraw Saver tickets completely? Surely Oyster has
superceded them to any practical extent?

Too much faffing about for the occasional visitor, especially tourists.
You have to pay 3 quid deposit to get an Oyster in the first place, then
claim a refund when you hand it in.
--
Joyce Whitchurch, Stalybridge, UK
=================================
Old enough to remember something
similar to Saver tickets in Glasgow
some twenty-odd years ago

Joyce Whitchurch wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:

Why not just withdraw Saver tickets completely? Surely Oyster has
superceded them to any practical extent?

Too much faffing about for the occasional visitor, especially tourists.
You have to pay 3 quid deposit to get an Oyster in the first place, then
claim a refund when you hand it in.

Surely going to the ticket stop is faffing about as well. They can just
buy the expensive cash fares. Or get an Oyster card.
--
Michael Hoffman

Joyce Whitchurch wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:

Why not just withdraw Saver tickets completely? Surely Oyster has
superceded them to any practical extent?

Too much faffing about for the occasional visitor, especially tourists.
You have to pay 3 quid deposit to get an Oyster in the first place, then
claim a refund when you hand it in.

Or keep it until you next come back. Our wonderful city is worth a
return visit you know! ;-) And I think we've said before, a little
homework before the start might make it cheaper to loose the £3 deposit
vs. the difference between cash fares and prepay.

We have two spare Oyster cards at home which we top up & lend to friends
and family when they come down to stop with us.

--
Phil Richards, London, UK
3,600+ railway photos since 1980 at:
http://europeanrail.fotopic.net
http://britishrail.fotopic.net

Chris Read wrote:
Allowing four months to use up residual stocks doesn't sound like an unfair
contract to me, anyway.

That's a matter of opinion. I bought 4 x 6 tickets when they were 65p
a ticket. I still have 2 x 6 left. I'll have to sell most of them -
though I suppose I might make a small profit.

£5 for 6 tickets including postage, anyone? From email address works.

Colin McKenzie


--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

Chris Read wrote:
"Michael Hoffman" wrote:

Can this be legal? If there was never any indication that the Bus Savers
could expire, then it seems like it would be a violation of the Unfair
Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations.

But did TfL say the tickets would never expire? I bet they didn't.

They didn't. For the discontinued Tube Carnet sold before the January
2006 fare change they had to be used up by the expiry period which IIRC
was one year after the issue date. That's crystal clear and an example
of how one could catch them out up trying to sneak this one through.

Suggest anyone who might want to pursue this arms themselves with the
current Conditions of Carriage, read page 21 onwards.


--
Phil Richards, London, UK
3,600+ railway photos since 1980 at:
http://europeanrail.fotopic.net
http://britishrail.fotopic.net